invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[RichardK]

5 hours ago, Harriytait said:

What do you mean? I was just continuing the conversation.

Cheaper insurance on L-plates - seems like the restrictions would get a bit wearing after a few years!

[Weird Car]

1 hour ago, RichardK said:

Cheaper insurance on L-plates - seems like the restrictions would get a bit wearing after a few years!

Yeah insurance is just stupid, £300 on l plates, 2400 on a full licence, 'work that one out' 😑 the restrictions aren't that annoying really as I drive with friends anyway, yeah being able to drive by myself would be be good but I don't find it as much of a burden as you'd think, I've also got a moped for solo drives to the shop or commuting.

[High Jetter]

I thought a provo license only lasted a couple of years - but I now see it's 10 years. Maybe it's changed since I t'were a lad.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Harriytait said:

Yeah insurance is just stupid, £300 on l plates, 2400 on a full licence, 'work that one out' 😑

thats because when your on L plates, the insurance companies know you have a qualified driver with you next to you etc

to take the wheel (literally LOL) if things go wrong or you start driving like a Yob etc etc

but the moment you pass your own and free to act like a Yob with no one to stop you, so prices go up accordingly

its all just risk assessment basically! 

although depending on how old you are it might not make much of a difference anymore

 

if you dont mind me asking whats the plan for the Invacar Mk12, since you wont be able to drive that on L plates sadly

(unless you meet a very specific set of criteria)

[AdgeCutler]

Here is the ass end of your car @Harriytait, if you'd like it just shout. Any progress with yours to report?

[LightBulbFun]

Poor stuart, I had a feeling he would be selling his stuff eventually, but not quite like this!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3999162890126643/

he had mentioned that, he really much prefers the research and paperwork side of things rather then the actual hands on physical work

so I am not overly surprised that he is selling his small collection, but the wording makes me feel for him!

I hope at least they can all find a good home hence why im posting here (ok im not expecting anyone here to have the money to buy the Peel P50, but maybe/hopefully the Comtesse and the Hardings can find a home on here? ) 

 

BTW I did speak with him on the electric harding and from what he told me on how its motor died im pretty positive the electric motor is just fine and thats its just the modern PMW motor speed controller thats gone up the spout rather then the motor itself

and im thinking for the Petrol harding a Villiers 11E would probably fit quite well, which stuart agreed with and was thinking of well, but he did not want to have to faff about making a whole gear change assembly

 

on a happier note theres also another one of the oddingly Invacar Mk12's for sale From Big al, and you can actually see the chassis for once in one of the photos!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3999398650103067/

although I would still recommend giving it a very good poking with your best Rust finding screw driver, just so you know what your in for!

and it does have a door, well whats left of one, but thats better then most Mk12's out there! LOL

[Jikovron]

If you can't be bothered to get a jack out it doesn't seem to be a hurdle with these invacars, just lift it up by the wheel arch and kick a stand under by the looks!

[Weird Car]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

thats because when your on L plates, the insurance companies know you have a qualified driver with you next to you etc

to take the wheel (literally LOL) if things go wrong or you start driving like a Yob etc etc

but the moment you pass your own and free to act like a Yob with no one to stop you, so prices go up accordingly

its all just risk assessment basically! 

although depending on how old you are it might not make much of a difference anymore

 

if you dont mind me asking whats the plan for the Invacar Mk12, since you wont be able to drive that on L plates sadly

(unless you meet a very specific set of criteria)

In terms of MPU, I have a bike licence 'A2' so I'm hopeful to be able to drive it on that, if not I'll more than likely be doing my full bike test in a few years after I've got my full car test. 

 

2 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

Here is the ass end of your car @Harriytait, if you'd like it just shout. Any progress with yours to report?

That would be amazing thank you! Now just a case of trying to get it back to Portsmouth 🤔🤔

Nothing meaningful to report on MPU's restore I'm afraid, she's just sitting under her tarp waiting for her turn. I've bolted on an old reg plate from a Capri just to fill the gap but that's it really.

I'm hopefully making a trip up north to see big Al later this month to collect a box of parts that was supposed to go with MPU, he also mentioned that he may have a black box spare so I'm crossing my fingers as I really don't want to have to source one myself🤞

[MT606]

LBF, did I see correctly he's wanting 60k for his Peel?

 

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, Harriytait said:

In terms of MPU, I have a bike licence 'A2' so I'm hopeful to be able to drive it on that, if not I'll more than likely be doing my full bike test in a few years after I've got my full car test. 

yeah that should cover you   as an invalid carriage of 3 wheels between 254Kg and 410Kg is Legally defined as a Motorcycle for the road traffic act etc etc  

and the Mk12 and I think even the Model 70 has a power output of less then 15Kw so you could drive one on an A1 licence even,

although on a Model 70 you would have to make sure its a Pre March 1976 one as later Post March 1976 ones are over 410Kg which defines them as Motor cars rather then Motor cycles

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped

7 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Nothing meaningful to report on MPU's restore I'm afraid, she's just sitting under her tarp waiting for her turn. I've bolted on an old reg plate from a Capri just to fill the gap but that's it really.

I'm hopefully making a trip up north to see big Al later this month to collect a box of parts that was supposed to go with MPU, he also mentioned that he may have a black box spare so I'm crossing my fingers as I really don't want to have to source one myself🤞

I would recommend you get set of plates made up for its registration mark of MPU382J , as the DVLA will ask you pictures of the thing when we sort out the V5  

7 hours ago, MT606 said:

LBF, did I see correctly he's wanting 60k for his Peel?

Yeah! for a genuine Peel P50 I think thats pretty "cheap" when you look at what others have sold for LOL, sadly being one of the archetypical Micro Cars, they have properly gone mental in price

[Amishtat]

23 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Keep up the great work with your lessons dez, you'll get there, I'm actually still on l plates myself and have been driving on them for years just to save on the astronomical prices of insurance, I learned to drive in my Peugeot 404 LHD USA spec, no power steering and 4 wheel drums 'awful ones at that' I find it so hard to drive a modern car for my lessons as the steering is to light and breaks too sharp 😂 

Is that the one you crashed? 

[Weird Car]

1 hour ago, Amishtat said:

Is that the one you crashed? 

Yep, had a little bump last year

[Jikovron]

On 5/18/2021 at 7:53 AM, Harriytait said:

Keep up the great work with your lessons dez, you'll get there, I'm actually still on l plates myself and have been driving on them for years just to save on the astronomical prices of insurance, I learned to drive in my Peugeot 404 LHD USA spec, no power steering and 4 wheel drums 'awful ones at that' I find it so hard to drive a modern car for my lessons as the steering is to light and breaks too sharp 😂 

 

Eventually if your driving old cars along side modern cars muscle memory becomes adaptive, I only notice the difference between old and modern vehicles if thinking about it, otherwise going from powerfull brakes and power steering to something with woefully heavy controls and vice versa is fairly seamless.

[Amishtat]

53 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Yep, had a little bump last year

Picture of the car jogged my memory, something about an inability to drive round a corner. Possibly a little* ambitious attempting to learn in an unassisted column-changed left hooker.. 

[Weird Car]

30 minutes ago, Amishtat said:

Picture of the car jogged my memory, something about an inability to drive round a corner. Possibly a little* ambitious attempting to learn in an unassisted column-changed left hooker.. 

Yeah I lost a bit of confidence after that but soon got back to it and have been driving without issue since. 

[Saabnut]

Saw this and thought of you....

Firey Beast of Turin Let Loose on the Highway | Part One - YouTube

3:02 for a few seconds

[LightBulbFun]

41 minutes ago, Saabnut said:

Saw this and thought of you....

Firey Beast of Turin Let Loose on the Highway | Part One - YouTube

3:02 for a few seconds

hah yeah I have seen/watched and talked about that a few times now, both for the Tippen Delta and the Model 70 and the fact the S76 is such a beast of a vehicle  

I really wish I knew more of the Model 70 and Tippen Delta (well I assume its a Model 70, could be a 67 for all I know, I dont see the rear end etc!)

as I dont know much about those 2 specific cars sadly, I do know @barrett posted a painting of the Tippen Delta a while back , which was very interesting, because it showed a Retro reflective rear plate

On 13/03/2019 at 17:30, barrett said:

Oh yeah, Duncan has a couple of invacars - I expressed some interest in one and our friend Stefan did this sketch of it for me

 

(http://stefanmarjoram.com/store - he's very good)

 

which indicates that its a Fred Miller Electric conversion Tippen Delta, but I have looked up pretty much all 550~ of those on the DVLA, and of those that still show up/I have been able to find, none show signs of surviving (although I do know a small gaggle of 4 are known to survive WTD317L, RTF114M, YTB768N and HCK972N)

so I am really curious to know which it is, is it one I have come across on the DVLA completely oblivious to the fact it does still survive somewhere?   

and of course I would love to know details on the Model 70  

 

I do keep pestering @barrett about it since I belive he is in contact with the chap who owns the S76/Those invalid vehicles

hopefully at some point I will get something!  

 

I appreciate the heads up tho  

[LightBulbFun]

@AdgeCutler Brian is alive on the DVLA once more Woooo!

just like I thought the DVLA did have a record on it, we just needed to get them to unarchive it

 

its the first time I have seen an Invacar where its body type also got recorded as its make, but im not too surprised, as I have well documented before these records back then could contain all  sorts of fun errors

I wonder if they will update the record with the proper info we provided on the V62 and V894, before they issue you your V5 

going by the "not available" on the V5c issue date, it looks like they have simply just brought the vehicle back to life on the main computer system still only on its 1970's record and then will probably issue you a V5c in your name shortly  

(if the details not corrected it should not be hard to correct it after you get the new V5)

 

I am very pleased about this, not only just for you, and the Invacar Mk12,

but also in general as it very much backs up my theories, and gives a lot of hope to surviving vehicles I know of that dont show up on the DVLA currently but I know came off the road around about the same time period

[Weird Car]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

@AdgeCutler Brian is alive on the DVLA once more Woooo!

just like I thought the DVLA did have a record on it, we just needed to get them to unarchive it

 

its the first time I have seen an Invacar where its body type also got recorded as its make, but im not too surprised, as I have well documented before these records back then could contain all  sorts of fun errors

I wonder if they will update the record with the proper info we provided on the V62 and V894, before they issue you your V5 

going by the "not available" on the V5c issue date, it looks like they have simply just brought the vehicle back to life on the main computer system still only on its 1970's record and then will probably issue you a V5c in your name shortly  

(if the details not corrected it should not be hard to correct it after you get the new V5)

 

I am very pleased about this, not only just for you, and the Invacar Mk12,

but in general as it very much backs up my theories, and gives a lot of hope to vehicles I know of that dont show up on the DVLA currently but I know came off the road around about the same time period

Giving me hope for MPU! well done Brian

[Dick Cheeseburger]

7 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Yeah I lost a bit of confidence after that but soon got back to it and have been driving without issue since. 

Bravo. We need more of you.

[bobdisk]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:19 PM, LightBulbFun said:

interesting, thats not one I have seen before!

not sure what could of prompted that especially as its only been SORN for a relatively short while

its not like you have had it on continuous SORN since 2013!

but I do wonder if its the DVLA way of poking people to stop them using SORN as a way to lazily scrap a vehicle etc especially if you take a vehicle apart on your driveway, the V5 no longer has a "I have scrapped this vehicle" check box, you have to take the vehicle to a proper scrap yard to get it a CoD, which might be a bit tricky when not much of it physically exists anymore! so a lot of vehicles that die just end up on SORN, im really hoping XEV88S is not one of those, as id really like to get its registration number stuck back onto the Model 70 it was stolen off of!)

either that, or for some reason, someone reported the car as being on the road despite SORNed to the DVLA? (although I imagine you would get a nastier letter then what you got, if you where "papped" driving a SORN vehicle on the road)

maybe you can give em a call and ask them whats prompted it  

 

I will say V49 tho indicates its a fairly old form, although the /3 my be a new addition to it, I have never seen a V49 on its own so dunno what that looks like (it might be a relatively internal form like a V202 or V894)

(the 4/21 indicates that this form was revised pretty recently!)

the DVLA forms are fun like because the numbers go up in order of introduction its why a V5 is a V5 its one of the very first forms from the DVLC/DVLA , and for example a V890 is such a high number as SORN was only relatively recently introduced

@LightBulbFun and @Six-cylinder , I got one too !!  This Daf has been sorn since 2019.  Wonder what they are playing at !!

 

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, bobdisk said:

@LightBulbFun and @Six-cylinder , I got one too !!  This Daf has been sorn since 2019.  Wonder what they are playing at !!

 

interesting!

I have not got one for REV, but she was only SORNed at the start of March

or Perhaps the DVLA just know better then to try and play games with me LOL

 

strangely despite "V49" indicating its a pretty old form, I cant find anything online for it

perhaps V49 was an internal form not really sent out until this /3 addition? 

 

its amusing @Six-cylinder is "Mr Smith"

where as you are Just Customer

to be fair given how many cars @Six-cylinder has/has had registered to him, im not surprised that the DVLA are on "first" name basis with him!

[bobdisk]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

its amusing @Six-cylinder is "Mr Smith"

where as you are Just Customer

to be fair given how many cars @Six-cylinder has registered to him, im not surprised that the DVLA are on "first" name basis with him!

Just noticed that, you got it quicker than me !!!😁!!!

[LightBulbFun]

in Model 70 news 

Adam has managed to get his half-a-car running  

(video posted on his behalf)

its a shame he didn't try and put into gear for laugh and see if the rest of the drive line works  

but its very awesome to see as it means he has a good engine for KPL139P now!  

[LightBulbFun]

so heres a couple interesting DVLC/Pre DVLC things I came across recently for those that enjoy my ramblings on that subject  

first is this

(which says "Basic petrol ration issued by post office on production preceding registration book" if its a bit hard to make out)

I knew of the Petrol Rationing of the time in-fact I have even talked about in the past how the employees of one Approved repairer got around the issue by jumping in spare Model 70's lying around, filling up at a Petrol station then Syphoning off the fuel for their own cars, then go to another petrol station near by and  so forth!

but I never realised with regards to the rationing that the vehicles logbooks where stamped with regards to it so I thought that was pretty neat  

another interesting buff logbook is this one 

I never realised just how far back insurance markers and the such like went back! (although I have seen some other such markers like "vehicle previously registered in Ireland" back when you could transfer a vehicle across from Ireland to NI or England without losing its Irish registration mark and the such like)

 

and finally I always felt that the wording that Used/re-registered/imported vehicles got in their special notes section felt incomplete to me

the wording seemed weird to me "was registered and/or used" 

so I have wondered if in the past there was more to it that for some reason got lopped off, but I have never come across an old 1980's V5 of such a vehicle to compare to

until now where I finally came across an old V5 of such a re-registered vehicle and indeed my hunch was correct their was more wording at one time  

"Previous Registered And/Or used prior to date of first registration show above" suddenly makes a lot more sense/sounds a lot better

I wonder why the wording was truncated like it is now, was it intentional or was it a computer glitch of some kind?

the only thing i can think of is the fact a modern V5 does not show the date of first registration on the first page "above" but they could of still amended the wording to simply "date of first registration shown" 

[Six-cylinder]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:26 PM, bobdisk said:

@LightBulbFun and @Six-cylinder , I got one too !!  This Daf has been sorn since 2019.  Wonder what they are playing at !!

 

We have had another 4 now, Visa cabriolet, Trevi, Metro +1 I can't remember.

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

We have had another 4 now, Visa cabriolet, Trevi, Metro +1 I can't remember.

would be amusing if you ended up getting one for every vehicle you have on SORN except for Dolly

"an AC Electric, invalid what now?! yeah no way am I touching that!"

im curious do the date of these V49/3 letters match up in any way to when you SORNed the vehicle? (ie are they say dated exactly 1 year since the vehicle was SORNed or such?)

 

for example if you look at one of the DVLA "thank you for your V62" letters the date that they say they will process it/issue you a V5 is exactly 14 days from when the letter is dated

(which is interesting as they give 14 days on the V712, I have to wonder if that is when they give the previous keeper 2 weeks to respond etc)

 

[Six-cylinder]

10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

would be amusing if you ended up getting one for every vehicle you have on SORN except for Dolly

"an AC Electric, invalid what now?! yeah no way am I touching that!"

im curious do the date of these V49/3 letters match up in any way to when you SORNed the vehicle?

 

for example if you look at one of the DVLA "thank you for your V62" letters the date that they say they will process it/issue you a V5 is exactly 14 days from when the letter is dated

(which is interesting as they give 14 days on the V712, I have to wonder if that is when they give the previous keeper 2 weeks to respond etc)

 

 

All 4 letters are dated 12 May 2021. Trevi, Visa Cab and BMW 323i  were SORNed 30 Nov 2020. The Metro was SORNed 30 Sep 2020.

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of invalid vehicles

had a nice chat with Sam, the NI Chap who owns UOI8850 and "WPD607G" the Elmsleigh invacar Model 70

which was nice as it had been a while since I last spoke with him  

he said he got the V5 for WPD607G recently (which goes with what I saw on the DVLA recently)

he says that car is done now  I should ask him for some pictures! (and remind him he needs to SORN the vehicle before the DVLA reclaim his knee caps)

but UOI8850 is still in bits as he still needs a (Left hand IIRC) door and a couple other nicknacks for it

on the WPD607G front he was amused how it was Recorded as an AC (ELECTRIC) "theres nothing electric about it!" 

and I was able to finally see what the Revenue weight for an AC Acedes Model 67, a Mk14A in this case was, which interestingly was listed as 305Kg exactly the same as the Invacar Mk12E JBY503J (LVX250J)

which is especially interesting as even before all the historic vehicle stuff, if you look at a V112, it specifically says invalid carriages bellow 306Kg are MOT exempt

so the fact that both the AC Acedes Mk14A and Invacar Mk12E are exactly 305Kg makes me wonder if they where squeaking them under the MOT exemption 

especially if you look at the brochure  for a Mk12C it lists the vehicle as weighing a little bit more then 305Kg!

700Lbs is 317Kg so I have to wonder if they where taking slight liberties or if the Mk12E was indeed a little lighter! (although I cant see how, if anything id expect the 12E to weigh a couple Kg more on account of the beefier/more complicated Parallelogram front suspension)

(sadly the Only Mk12c V5 I have seen has no Unladen weight listed at all)

I feel like I need to see some more V5's before I can make a solid conclusion, but there are not many Surviving Villiers Machines with V5's sadly

but its all quite interesting

[AdgeCutler]

 

I've now made a start on fibreglass repairs. Firstly I backed the area of damage (below engine compartment lid), this was done with random odment I found lying around including a piece of Perspex, wood and a piece of 3/4" steel conduit. These were all then screwed in place and then removed and I made my mistake of using a piece of plastic poultry feed bag to back it up and refitted the shuttering. Seems obvious now but the bag "pickled" and slightly raised the resin/fibres. It's not the end of the world and the area will be re-worked to  achieve a better final finish and I had something to work against this morning with the shuttering removed and strengthened up the backside. It was the first time I've had a go at fibreglass repair and it all went pretty well in general and I learn a couple of lessons including the fact that dawdlers will not be tolerated by the resin! Hopefully I'll have chance in the next few days to make good the job.