invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

That's pretty good, I've just tried it on my C30 and I like the graph showing miles compared to the average and the MOT advisories without having to go all through MOT history.

However it did only show one number plate change and my car is on its fourth number plate as I did a paid for Cazana check when I bought it...

odd that it only showed 1 plate change, It uses the same back end as my commercial tool, so should be pretty reliable

and I ran through it a few tricky ones to check this and it returned them all correctly

including all the plates of GIG4834 the Number plate mule Model 70

[Dyslexic Viking]

In the Norwegian photo archive I found 2 rare photos taken before the war in Norway. The first is supposed to be a German DKW according to the page the second no one knows what is.

Also learned that these exist, Nordsjø Partner a Swedish built invalid carriage.

[Weird Car]

Just ran across this 

https://youtu.be/tyBNMz_6hpU

if you skip to 16.00 you can see VJN953S my old model 70 funnily enough a chap in the comments seems to think they were fitted with cub90 engines 

[Weird Car]

God help me! 

“Nah mate I remember seeing a burnt out shell of a car when I was 6 so you’re rong”

even though I’ve owned 3 of them and have spent who knows how many hours researching these cars.

[Mrs6C]

17 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

God help me! 

“Nah mate I remember seeing a burnt out shell of a car when I was 6 so you’re rong”

even though I’ve owned 3 of them and have spent who knows how many hours researching these cars.

Now you know how poor Dez feels!

[LightBulbFun]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:19, FakeConcern said:

Not related to cars, Inva, Micro or otherwise, but @LightBulbFun, you may know what this is.

Strange filament

Says something on the glass, Made in England dates it...

 

I can't remember how we came to have it or why it didn't go in the bin, but anyway...

What is it?

 

On 10/11/2022 at 19:59, LightBulbFun said:

oh very cool! its an Osglim (Osram GEC) Beehive Neon lamp  

an early form electric discharge lamp, about 5W http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec Sheets/D G Ne Osglim Beehive.htm

your example looks to date from the 1940's as its still Osglim branded but lacks a pip top of the earliest lamps, above "Made In England" is a 2 digit number, if you can make it out I can date your lamp to the Month and year it was made  (to make the etch a bit more readable if you get the lamp nice and cold, say stick it in the freezer and then breath on crown of the bulb, the condensate from the breath can often bring out faint markings)

 

is there a voltage marking on the etch anywhere? if you cant find one, be VERY careful testing it, MOST had internal ballasting resistors for running directly off 200-250V mains, but some where produced without ballasting resistors, for when the lamp was to be used in some specialised equipment, for example early mechanical TV's used resistor-less lamps as the modulated light-source for their Nipkow disks 
 

and if a non ballasted lamp is plugged directly into the mains it will explode!

most discharge lamps have whats called a negative resistance characteristic, in that the more power that flows through them, the lower their resistance drops, and this causes even more power to flow, and thus the resistance drops even further, in a runaway until something gives up usually quite violently! and all happening in a split second (electricity moves/happens fast!) and thats why most forms of discharge lamp will require some sort of current limiting device to work properly

 

these lamps are pretty well sought after by collectors these days, my oldest example shown bellow dates to 1935,  I am really glad yours was not chucked in the bin, far too old and rare for that! and I see its not had much use either, as the glass is nice and clear with no signs of major electrode sputtering deposits  

 

On 02/03/2020 at 20:00, LightBulbFun said:

 

on the opposite end of the discharge lamp spectrum I dug this lamp out from storage to grab some information it has on it for another collector, and I figured while I had it out it would be rude not to light it  

my November 1935 Osglim GEC Beehive neon lamp  this particular example is unusual in that most had an internal ballasting resistor in the cap, however this one was made without and contains a warning etch telling you to use a 2270 Ohm resistor with the lamp if you are using it on mains voltage

(another collector has a similar lamp where its internal resistor has sadly burnt out so was looking for the correct value of resistor to use)

such a resistorless lamp would of most likely been used in something like a very early Television receiver or other such device

(osglim is not a typo, its because back then GEC only held the rights to use the Osram name on its Tungsten filament lamps)

 

 

On 10/11/2022 at 20:30, FakeConcern said:

Wow, interesting information! Mrs Concern and I were very impressed.

Mrs Concern thinks it was in the house when we moved here in 2001, the lady we bought the house from had lived here for about 40 years.

Looking at the bulb with a torch, we are pretty sure the two digit number is 21. Can't see any markings for the voltage so we won't try it out!

If you'd like it I can post it if it's likely to survive or you can wait until we visit our friends in East London (usually has a party we go to for Christmas/New Year) and I'll deliver it, either way PM me if you want it.

Apropos of nothing in particular I think I saw you post a picture taken near to Morpeth School where I was a teacher for over 20 years so assume you live fairly near to that!

 

 

On 10/11/2022 at 21:29, LightBulbFun said:

Thanks! glad to have been of service so to speak!  

a date code of 21 translates to September 1943  (I almost wonder if it was bought for blackout usage?)

and thank you very much for the offer of the lamp ill PM you regarding that!  

(I do note that it has an insulating sleeve on one lead in wire which is normally a good indication of a ballasting resistor being present, but still best be safe)

not a million miles away! although not my usual area, however I noticed its near Fish Island which is where I went looking for the DNX Model 70 all the way back on Page 1! so perhaps its photos related to that that you saw? 

@FakeConcern and his wife very kindly dropped this off with me just a few moments ago! 

am pleased to report it works lovely  (slowly bringing it up on the variac quickly deduced it was a mains rated lamp)

photographing these types can be fun because the  2 elements (electrodes) light up in turn, never at the same time (its our persistence of vision that gives the illusion of such)

but sometimes the camera captures it when only one is lit!

these are called negative glow lamps because they exhibit a type of low power "glow" discharge that envelopes the negative electrode and on AC this flips round many times a second giving the illusion that both electrodes are glowing, if I was to light it on DC, depending on the polarity only one electrode would glow as above,

nixie tubes work on this exact principle having one anode, and then 10 cathodes each formed in a number and each glow as power is applied to them, and then you just apply power to whichever cathode/number you want to light up/display  

 

once again many thanks to @FakeConcern for gifting it to me! and going out of there way to bring it to me!  

[brummiejon]

A question to any electrical experts…. On tidying the wiring on my Stanley Argson electrics I have removed the connector block to find that the main electrical connections supplying all the amperage to the electric motor on an original connector block are a mere 6mm with a 10mm diameter wire stuffed into it badly…. If the connectors are only 6mm diameter, is there any point in having thicker wire going into it? (Ignore the wires in the photo, they are not the supply wires).

 

 

[Mr Pastry]

3 hours ago, brummiejon said:

A question to any electrical experts…. On tidying the wiring on my Stanley Argson electrics I have removed the connector block to find that the main electrical connections supplying all the amperage to the electric motor on an original connector block are a mere 6mm with a 10mm diameter wire stuffed into it badly…. If the connectors are only 6mm diameter, is there any point in having thicker wire going into it? (Ignore the wires in the photo, they are not the supply wires).

 

 

Are the wires original?   If so, you would expect the connectors to be larger to suit them, so probably not.   It would be worth working out how much current it has to handle if you are thinking of replacing it all with 6mm.   How powerful is the motor- is there a rating plate on the motor or controller?

[FakeConcern]

18 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

 

@FakeConcern and his wife very kindly dropped this off with me just a few moments ago! 

am pleased to report it works lovely  (slowly bringing it up on the variac quickly deduced it was a mains rated lamp)

photographing these types can be fun because the  2 elements (electrodes) light up in turn, never at the same time (its our persistence of vision that gives the illusion of such)

but sometimes the camera captures it when only one is lit!

these are called negative glow lamps because they exhibit a type of low power "glow" discharge that envelopes the negative electrode and on AC this flips round many times a second giving the illusion that both electrodes are glowing, if I was to light it on DC, depending on the polarity only one electrode would glow as above,

nixie tubes work on this exact principle having one anode, and then 10 cathodes each formed in a number and each glow as power is applied to them, and then you just apply power to whichever cathode/number you want to light up/display  

 

once again many thanks to @FakeConcern for gifting it to me! and going out of there way to bring it to me!  

I’m really pleased for you to have it since you appreciate it so much and it was no trouble to drop it off. We quite enjoyed driving around the East End and noting the changes or not since we were last there.

Thanks for testing it and posting the pics of it working, pretty amazing when it’s very nearly 80 years old! (and been rattling about loose in a box of old bulbs etc for the last 20 of them!)

[brummiejon]

8 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Are the wires original?   If so, you would expect the connectors to be larger to suit them, so probably not.   It would be worth working out how much current it has to handle if you are thinking of replacing it all with 6mm.   How powerful is the motor- is there a rating plate on the motor or controller?

Thanks for the reply, the motor is rated 36v , 20amps 0.75 bhp the connector block is original, so is the wiring which is why I can’t understand the apparent mismatch…. It is difficult to measure the original wiring accurately because the fabric insulation is brittle and there is no enough play in the wire length for me to clean cut, measure the cut cable and rewire… just not enough cable to do that with….

[Mr Pastry]

52 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Thanks for the reply, the motor is rated 36v , 20amps 0.75 bhp the connector block is original, so is the wiring which is why I can’t understand the apparent mismatch…. It is difficult to measure the original wiring accurately because the fabric insulation is brittle and there is no enough play in the wire length for me to clean cut, measure the cut cable and rewire… just not enough cable to do that with….

Taking 1bhp as 750 watts, 0.75 bhp =525 watts.  36v x 20amps = 720 watts so about 70 % efficient, yes possibly.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not sure exactly how it is controlled, but presumably batteries are connected in series for starting at full power.  If connected in parallel, the motor would see 18 volts and would need 40 amps to produce 720 watts.  It wouldn't normally be in parallel when full power is required, but maybe the oversized cable is to cover this situation.

 

[brummiejon]

19 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Taking 1bhp as 750 watts, 0.75 bhp =525 watts.  36v x 20amps = 720 watts so about 70 % efficient, yes possibly.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not sure exactly how it is controlled, but presumably batteries are connected in series for starting at full power.  If connected in parallel, the motor would see 18 volts and would need 40 amps to produce 720 watts.  It wouldn't normally be in parallel when full power is required, but maybe the oversized cable is to cover this situation.

 

There are two banks of batteries at 18v each bank. At low power they connect in parallel and high power they connect in series…. So the motor operates at either 18v or 36v…. I recon low power for cruising for longer battery life and high power for setting off and hills…. I’m yet to test this  but I’m getting closer every day…..  (fixed the wheel hub, now just to rebuild the wheel and I should be rolling)

How I’m able to correctly fit the oversize cable into the undersized connector block eludes me for the time being….. unless the oversize cable is an illusion and it has only spread at the connecting end…. I can’t cut it anywhere to see exactly what the wire diameter is and must be careful not to damage the wire end that fits into the connector block….. I do intend to do a complete rewire at some point but don’t want to start that now…

[Zie]

What's this 3 wheeler? 

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, Zie said:

What's this 3 wheeler? 

tis a Vernon Industries Gordon  

https://autoshite.com/topic/18581-cars-you-didnt-know-existed-until-very-recently/page/227/?tab=comments#comment-2666341

(if ya scroll down a couple posts from there I go into detail about its predecessors/how it came to be)

[RayMK]

9 minutes ago, Zie said:

What's this 3 wheeler? 

Looks like a Gordon to me, on account of its split windscreen.

Edit: @LightBulbFunbeat me to it.

[LightBulbFun]

at long last I finally have my Compaq Portable II in hand! I bought this on a complete whim being it was £25, a good year or 2 ago now! with the small hitch of it being in the Netherlands! thankfully the whole brexit shipping mess has seemingly resolved itself for the most part

so my friend Dan and fellow vintage tech enthusiast, who has kindly been holding it for me  (and bought it/picked it up on my behalf) was able to ship it out! he even threw in a complimentary PTT T65 Rotary Telephone in Emerald green, as you do!  (makes it my first Rotary phone, been wanting one for some time now, so this was a very pleasent surprise!)

I just need an acoustic coupling modem and I should be able to get this thing connected to a bulletin board like its 1986! 

 

that and I also need a setup disk to remind the BIOS that a hard drive is present and get it booting from it! which is small problem in that 

this is my oldest PC by far, next oldest (functioning) PC is a Pentium 4 from 2002, otherwise its all vintage macs here  and thus I dont have any other PC's with a 5.25 inch drive to make a disk with! 

but I am sure ill be able to figure something out in the end!

perhaps next time I find myself round @Zelandeth's ill commandeer his PC AT monolith tower and make a few disks  

 

but for now I am just pleased it makes all the right startup noises and gets this far! showing that it is intact for the most part! (always a bit of a risk shipping something this big and bulky let alone between countries!)

[horriblemercedes]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:56 PM, LightBulbFun said:

Little late Christmas gift for those who follow this thread! 

but I noticed just now that https://www.freecarcheck.co.uk/

now spits out previous registration marks if a vehicle has previous plate history  

I can confirm it is accurate on all the cars I've checked that I know have had plate changes. Thanks for this, it's good to see that 

[AdgeCutler]

After having covered nearly 80 mile now in Brian I have got the carburettor set up pretty well, he starts on the first compression stroke ticks over steadily and pulls strongly (considering engine size). 22 miles were covered yesterday in tandem with my cousin in the model 70. One little niggle I had was with the ignition barrel which was losing contact in start and run positions and so was pulled to pieces thoroughly cleaned and re lubricated and now functions perfectly. It was grotty in there!

One other note, I can definitely confirm that Mk12 InvaCars are not great in gusty winds! Frightening.

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

After having covered nearly 80 mile now in Brian I have got the carburettor set up pretty well, he starts on the first compression stroke ticks over steadily and pulls strongly (considering engine size). 22 miles were covered yesterday in tandem with my cousin in the model 70. One little niggle I had was with the ignition barrel which was losing contact in start and run positions and so was pulled to pieces thoroughly cleaned and re lubricated and now functions perfectly. It was grotty in there!

One other note, I can definitely confirm that Mk12 InvaCars are not great in gusty winds! Frightening.

super awesome to see that Brian is continuing to perform well! and is getting out and about! (and same for VJN!)

bet you got some looks when you went out as a pair! and indeed I hear Model 70's are bad enough in the wind, I imagine a Mk12 being 100Kg lighter does it no favours in this case!

 

I noticed the other day someone had grabbed a bunch of pictures of him and a video! pretty nifty seeing an Invacar out and about after dark! not something you see often

https://www.facebook.com/ally.preece.9/posts/pfbid0kszrksuPtabNKxhPuUN2VvfHfqGcWZKE3NEKbCVWucdMuqV5wzNcitkYWjDQycWhl

lovely warm glow of all the incandescent lighting!  (the head lamps look surprisingly effective, what units are they? traditional 36/36W BPF's or H4's?)

 

 

I look forward to in time posts popping up across the internet going "what the fuck is that!" or "Fuck me not seen one of those in a million years!" as you drive about and get papped

(and it will be interesting how the response is compared to your "usual" Model 70 papping)

[AdgeCutler]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

lovely warm glow of all the incandescent lighting!  (the head lamps look surprisingly effective, what units are they? traditional 36/36W BPF's or H4's?)

 

Standard set up, though with new old stock period (Rema?) lens/reflector units that a friend had in his shed, still boxed. They're exactly the same as the Lucas units bar the logo. I did notice Brians lights were much brighter but I guess a car that has had everything re-built is bound to have stronger outputs. I also noticed I was pulling away from Russell in VJN (Bryony) on inclines and from standstill. I've not spoken with Russell about this yet, it may be that the 70 is holding back, it may be how he was driving?

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Standard set up, though with new old stock period (Rema?) lens/reflector units that a friend had in his shed, still boxed. They're exactly the same as the Lucas units bar the logo. I did notice Brians lights were much brighter but I guess a car that has had everything re-built is bound to have stronger outputs. 

interesting I guess the question is also what bulbs are installed? there are numerous types of British prefocused bulbs out there, so you may simply have some brighter bulbs  

one of REV's head lamp units was original to her and still had its factory 36W/36W Bulb installed  

but her other headlamp was an older replacement unit with some sort of 42W (IIRC) bulb installed of a different filament configuration

19 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I also noticed I was pulling away from Russell in VJN (Bryony) on inclines and from standstill. I've not spoken with Russell about this yet, it may be that the 70 is holding back, it may be how he was driving?

yeah it would be interesting to get his feedback on that, a Model 70 in good health should be able to cruise at 60Mph, and exceed 70Mph when flat out, thats the benchmark to aim for so to speak

so if he is struggling with that it could be something needs tuning up, pulleys need replacing, or just that your Poor cousin is not used to driving an up turned bath tub on wheels  poorly pulleys/a sad belt can really hurt a Model 70's performance, so that would be my first port of call 

also I dont know if @OldBlokeInACaravan or @Harriytait ever dropped the engine oil strainer out of the sump on VJN so I would also check that to make sure its not slugged up, I mean its not a performance issue, but defo worth checking and cleaning for engine health sake  

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

I look forward to in time posts popping up across the internet going "what the fuck is that!" or "Fuck me not seen one of those in a million years!" as you drive about and get papped

(and it will be interesting how the response is compared to your "usual" Model 70 papping)

like clockwork!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/carsyoudontseeanymore/posts/3557351237919749/

gotta love this comment LOL both for obvious reasons but also because it amused me how when it comes to invacars the internet still manages to get it all wrong!

in that normally one of my biggest gripes is someone said to be talking about and showing a Model 70, when clearly the person is describing a Villiers machine

yet when we do finally have a Villiers machine on show, its being incorrectly placed into a Model 70 scene LOL

I know this comment is tongue in cheek and not meant to be a factual statement of any kind, but it still amuses me how they still got it back to front!

 

[LightBulbFun]

On 09/10/2022 at 12:55, LightBulbFun said:

one for those interested in my DVLA/DVSA ramblings

I noticed a little while back that the DVSA's MOT checker had a bit of a "revamp" (not a fan of the new looks IMHO LOL)

and apart from introducing a bug that meant non coded vehicles get their make repeated twice LOL

they did finally sort one thing out in that for a long time when you would look up a HGV/PSV it would only spit out the MOT results and thats it none of the vehicle data would be available at all and for test location it would also just say not available at this time

well looks like not only did they fix the vehicle data being missing for HGV/PSV's, it seems you can even see the test location now, even without the V5's 11 digit number!  note this is ONLY for PSV's' and HGV's but great for any bus or lorry enthusiast trying to keep track of a machine!  

 

following on from this it seems like at long last Northern Ireland vehicle MOT history* is now viewable online! only goes back to 2017 but still very neat to see!

its a little rough and ready, seems to be taking pages out of the HGV/PSV MOT checker in how if there is no MOT history available it just assumes it expired/is due 1/3 years after date of first registration

 

or just assuming the vehicle is equipped with a flux capacitor and thus is due an MOT 49 years before it existed...

 

 

*although sadly detailed info is not available, it seems it can only give you the history of passes and fails no actual details on what the vehicle failed on or what any advisories might be

 

still might be somewhat useful for @Datsuncogand the such like  

[brummiejon]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

or just assuming the vehicle is equipped with a flux capacitor and thus is due an MOT 49 years before it existed...

 

 

*although sadly detailed info is not available, it seems it can only give you the history of passes and fails no actual details on what the vehicle failed on or what any advisories might be

 

still might be somewhat useful for @Datsuncogand the such like  

That’s hilarious 😂😂

[High Jetter]

Sorry it's not a higher resolution but I stumbled across this the other day and thought what if....what if...I've found a pic that @LightBulbFun hasn't seen before?

 

[Weird Car]

So after cleaning up the Earths I’m now getting some life out of the rear light units, the rear indicators aren’t flashing but instead lighting the brake light on the left or right side “depending on the position of the indicator switch” and the rear lights and brake lights aren’t working at all, I’ve had a prod with the multimeter and everything is receiving voltage and checked the inline fuse next to the voltage regulator and 5 amp fuse under the dash which both seem fine and checking with the multimeter proves this. Looking at the fuse box under the dash shows no wires connected to it but since I’m receiving voltage to the rear light units I don’t think it’s my problem, obviously electrical issues aren’t my strong point and I’m honestly stumped right now. Any suggestions?

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

So after cleaning up the Earths I’m now getting some life out of the rear light units, the rear indicators aren’t flashing but instead lighting the brake light on the left or right side “depending on the position of the indicator switch” and the rear lights and brake lights aren’t working at all, I’ve had a prod with the multimeter and everything is receiving voltage and checked the inline fuse next to the voltage regulator and 5 amp fuse under the dash which both seem fine and checking with the multimeter proves this. Looking at the fuse box under the dash shows no wires connected to it but since I’m receiving voltage to the rear light units I don’t think it’s my problem, obviously electrical issues aren’t my strong point and I’m honestly stumped right now. Any suggestions?

eugh someones been at that something horrid! the fact the fuse box has been completely bypassed when everything normally goes through it! that gives me the heebie jeebies

and quite likely is your problem!

 

but first of first, have you found the flasher can? it should be under the dash also a 2 pin Jobby (if someones not fucked with it) 

the fact that your brake lights are lighting instead has me wondering if someone somewhere has swapped a couple bullet connections around inadvertently, and the fact its not flashing has me wondering if the Flasher can is either missing (since you have not made mention of it) or broken/linked out for some reason

 

 

[Weird Car]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

eugh someones been at that something horrid! the fact the fuse box has been completely bypassed when everything normally goes through it! that gives me the heebie jeebies

first of first, have you found the flasher can? it should be under the dash also a 2 pin Jobby (if someones not fucked with it) 

the fact that your brake lights are lighting instead has me wondering if someone somewhere has swapped a couple bullet connections around inadvertently, and the fact its not flashing has me wondering if the Flasher can is either missing (since you have not made mention of it) or broken/linked out for some reason

 

 

Flasher can is fitted, tested by connecting it to a battery and it works, I’ve swapped all the connectors around and it was the same result.

[Mr Pastry]

Also check with a live feed from the battery to each of the rear light connections in turn, and check which wire actually connects to which filament as some may be transposed - it sounds as though the flasher unit is trying to flash the stop/tail bulb.  

If all connections at the rear are correct, and things still aren't right, then you will have to trace the cables back to the dashboard area which doesn't look great in your picture - but someone has made it work in the past so it's probably good enough in principle.

Lack of fuse box I wouldn't be too concerned about, as it wasn't too clever anyway, and plenty of small cars of the period had no fuses at all. 

 

[barrett]

A few weeks ago I bought about 1400 old car photos at auction, of which about 200 will be staying and the rest sold off to try and claw back some money... anyway, I'm keeping these two. Just quick phone snaps but you get the idea!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

A few weeks ago I bought about 1400 old car photos at auction, of which about 200 will be staying and the rest sold off to try and claw back some money... anyway, I'm keeping these two. Just quick phone snaps but you get the idea!

oooh very cool!

nice shot of the Model 57/64 especially, you can see the pre-glass side windows feature of the early example that it is, quite nicely in that