invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Mrs6C]

23 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I collected the two sets of Mk12 chassis components this morning , one for Brian and a set for another lucky Mk12.

Fantastic!

They look superb. Many thanks!

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

It would be good to get a hold of a front suspension unit if there is a spare to be had, I've not had a reply to my Email to the chap with the model 70 rears but I did enquire after a price.

I collected the two sets of Mk12 chassis components this morning , one for Brian and a set for another lucky Mk12. They are very nice and with very minor fettling by hand make a perfect fit, a really nice job was made of Tig welding the flanges onto the large radii too. The other two components I've not mentioned before but that are pictured are the rear end body mounting brackets that bolt to the end of the centre spar of the Chassis.

when you say suspension unit, do you mean the coil-over/shock absorber or do you mean the entire parallelogram front suspension setup? I dont think he has one of those spare I think he just has the STY197 shock/coil-over

well I say that, he does have this from TPE376S but its probably worse then whats on your Mk12! (and while I know the front coilover/shock is the same between the Model 70 and Mk12E, I dont think the actual suspension metal bits are)

 

nice to see the chassis components coming together they look very good to me! I look forward to seeing the completed chassis with them  

 

4 hours ago, 500tops said:

LBF, 

 

I think i missed who the current owner of KPL is.  Can you point me in the direction so I can get up to speed?

heres a writeup I did for @Dick Longbridge which explains exactly who has what and who has had what and so should hopefully get you up to speed  

On 03/01/2021 at 23:34, LightBulbFun said:

if it makes you feel better even Adam the owner gets confused by it all LOL but here goes

KPL139P is indeed @Zelandeth's Original Model 70, with the hacked up body (where it was rescued from a Caravan park where it was used as a Tug), which was then used as a Parts car to recommission TPA621M (which was used as a parts car to recommission TWC725K)

so TWC725K has TPA621M's engine and, TPA621M has KPL139P's entire driveline and Rear window and doors

after Zel was done with KPL139P he offered it up for free on here, where it was taken up by @OliD-E who then also bought/rescued the Isle of Skye Model 70, TPE376S with the intention of putting the 2 together to make 1 good Model 70 (as KPL139P had a good chassis but no body or mechanicals and TPE376S had no chassis but good bodywork and mechanicals)

but this never came to fruition and so recently they where stuck on ebay where Adam Bid and won them, (Mainly just for the glass!)

but also with the same idea of combining the 2 together into one good Model 70,

(although he did not realise just quite how bad TPE376S was and how many little ancillary bits where missing in general, despite me warning him so! but hopefully KPL139P can be restored with TPE376S's bits, it would be very fun/cool to see it on the road again as I doubt many would have thought it would see the road again given the state of it!)

KPL139P is what you see in the first 2 pictures, the small pile of body work pictured is the front and rear sections of KPL, whats left of them anyway!

I think the current plan is to just combine the 2 into a rolling shell and then go from there

 

now GTW614N (the one with the broken nose) is part of 4 Model 70's  that Adam rescued a couple years ago now (all trapped in abandoned building being demolished and had to be ripped out of the building with a JCB hence the bodywork damage and broken glass sadly)

and put into storage to await recommissioning, in October/November 2019, I was contacted by @st185cs as Adam had gotten ahold of him somehow looking for some bits like glass, and to V62 for the 4 Model 70's

and so @st185cs thankfully contacted me to make sure the V62's where correct etc, and im glad he did as I immediately spotted that they had been filled in incorrectly and that the chassis numbers and registration numbers did not match up, so I knew right away that there was past Approved Repairer shenanigans on the go, and so to V62 the cars id need to see their actual chassis number and figure out what the cars actually where

so I was put in direct contact with Adam to help him with the Model 70's, but the cars where in storage at the time, so the numbers could not be got, however Starting in October/November 2020, their turn finally came up and Adam got them out of storage, got me the Numbers I needed, where I was able to quickly ID which cars they actually where, while Adam and his friends got All the Model 70's road worthy in record quick time  (while I provided Model 70 specific technical support on the side)

(and so with the cars properly ID'ed he was able to V62 for them all, and the first of the V5's arrived in his name for them recently, with funnily enough GTW614N's V5 turning up first we are still waiting on the other 3 which are GPF282N KPC538P and VJN960S)

 

and so to clarify Adam has GTW614N, GPF282N KPC538P, VJN960S and KPL139P and TPE376S

 

hopefully this all makes sense!

and KPL came from Big al/the same place @AdgeCutler's Mk12E came from  

[AdgeCutler]

Just the coil over shock unit Dez. Are they NOS?

[LightBulbFun]

56 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Just the coil over shock unit Dez. Are they NOS?

im not sure tbh!, next time I speak with him ill ask him about it!   (he just mentioned in passing "iv got a bunch of the fronts its the rears i need!" and he asked me about the ones you had a lead on)

[eifion]

I've just spotted tihs one on Flickr while looking for something else. CPC441H by the look of it.

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, eifion said:

I've just spotted tihs one on Flickr while looking for something else. CPC441H by the look of it.

 

very cool! a new photo to me (just uploaded today intact I see ) thanks for letting me know about it  

tis an AC Acedes Mk15 Model 67, part of the CPC251H-CPC450H block, (in fact CPC317H is a survivor but I sadly dont know much of its current whereabouts or even have a picture of it sadly)

its nice to see a relatively detailed/close up picture of a Model 67 there are not all that many good pics of them floating around sadly

[Slowsilver]

Hi LBF. Guess you have already seen this one but posted it just in case. Probably a library photo but currently featured on an MSN photo gallery entitled "Oops! 20 motoring misfires".

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, Slowsilver said:

Hi LBF. Guess you have already seen this one but posted it just in case. Probably a library photo but currently featured on an MSN photo gallery entitled "Oops! 20 motoring misfires".

indeed, its one of the most common pictures you find of a Model 70 on the internet as its a public domain free use photo, no copyright or such stuff to worry about

which is hilarious because that means it gets used in all the "they where all government owned and banned from the road and made illegal to drive or have in 2003" articles 

like this one  http://rustyoldrubbish.blogspot.com/2015/09/unsung-heroes-invacar.html

and thats hilarious because NPN924P, is a Private Model 70, it was never owned by the Government and as such they had no say at all what happened with it! and is probably how it survived!

 

I appreciate the heads up still tho  

[Spottedlaurel]

20 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

very cool! a new photo to me (just uploaded today intact I see ) thanks for letting me know about it  

tis an AC Acedes Mk15 Model 67, part of the CPC251H-CPC450H block, (in fact CPC317H is a survivor but I sadly dont know much of its current whereabouts or even have a picture of it sadly)

its nice to see a relatively detailed/close up picture of a Model 67 there are not all that many good pics of them floating around sadly

Another shot of it, possibly with its keeper?

 

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Another shot of it, possibly with its keeper?

 

Oh cool I would say so going by the zimmer frame? and the way she is looking at it

just came across this photo from that one, which is rather topical as you can see the original type of fire extinguisher they have which I was just talking about in Zels thread  

 

https://flic.kr/p/2kU5Q4V

 

[Mrs6C]

28 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

the zimmer frame

If so, then that leads to the conclusion that a zimmer frame  or other walking frame would need to have been transported inside the invalid carriage, not just a wheelchair. A frame is quite different in size and shape to a wheelchair. I wonder how and where it fitted inside for transport?

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

If so, then that leads to the conclusion that a zimmer frame  or other walking frame would need to have been transported inside the invalid carriage, not just a wheelchair. A frame is quite different in size and shape to a wheelchair. I wonder how and where it fitted inside for transport?

Yeah thats exactly why I put a question mark at the end of that sentence as It looks like one but I was not sure if it was one

because as you say im not sure how one would fit unless it was collapsable in some sort of way? the one I had certainly wasn't tho! (admittedly I was 4 at the time so it was a very small one LOL)

I do know aside from wheel chairs, crutches where also taken with people in their invalid vehicles 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Oh cool I would say so going by the zimmer frame? and the way she is looking at it

just came across this photo from that one, which is rather topical as you can see the original type of fire extinguisher they have which I was just talking about in Zels thread  

 

https://flic.kr/p/2kU5Q4V

 

Interesting photo. I've got lots more important jobs to deal with but appear to have just fallen down a rabbit hole trying to find the location. For reference, the Model 67 would have been parked where the black Micra is, I reckon. The street has changed a lot with plenty of demolition and rebuilding of the frontages of number 45 and 47 in the meantime. The little lane on the left remains as a good reference point though.

 

[High Jetter]

If you were a disabled, but determined, person with the gift of motorised transport, such incidentals such as carrying crutches, zimmers, or other aids will be easily overcome. The freedom was the overwhelming benefit. For some, it was literally lifesaving.

[martc]

There's this view as well...

[busmansholiday]

Just looked it up and the area has been totally flattened now. Interestingly my grandfather lived a few hundred yards away from here, and had a mobility vehicle. Need to look up when in the 60's he died.

Edited April 22, 2021 by busmansholiday

[LightBulbFun]

On 09/01/2020 at 19:15, LightBulbFun said:

as I think I mentioned before, its interesting to note that one of the Model 70 drawings in the workshop manual does dictate the Model 70 with Lucas L572 rear lights

where as the next drawing shows Production rear lights

was just looking at these drawings again and I was wondering again if the drawing of the outside of the car was of a prototype machine rather then a production machine, as I noted above, its drawn with what looks like Lucas L572 lights of the prototype cars, but at the same time they could of just drawn flat lights to make things easier for themselves

but I noticed on the first drawing that the windscreen wiper parks towards the offside of the car like it does on the Prototype user trial cars

Production cars have the windscreen wiper park towards the nearside, and this combined with the fact the chassis drawing does show production rear lights means im pretty confident to say that the first drawing is of a Prototype car which is pretty neat  

but it is interesting to note that there is no front tow bar like their is on the BPE-H user trial cars

I wonder if this was just not drawn, or if the drawing is of some Prototype Model 70, somewhere after the User trial cars but before production?

 

[LightBulbFun]

47 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Just looked it up and the area has been totally flattened now. Interestingly my grandfather lived a few hundred yards away from here, and had a mobility vehicle. Need to look up when in the 60's he died.

I was wondering if you could remembered which Invalid vehicle your grandfather had, I seem to recall that you did ride around in it when you where very small, so I can always post some interior shots if it helps jog any memories

for what its worth back then invalid vehicles where generally replaced on a 7 year cycle (so a user would get a new one every 7 years)

[busmansholiday]

[AdgeCutler]

Brian the Invacars power unit parts arrived a couple of days ago, all new seals, bearings, re-built crankshaft, new Piston, rings, brushes, condensor, etc. Most components were ready cleaned off awaiting re-assembly and so the engine and gearbox are now back together and rotating silky smooth once more.

[LightBulbFun]

49 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Brian the Invacars power unit parts arrived a couple of days ago, all new seals, bearings, re-built crankshaft, new Piston, rings, brushes, condensor, etc. Most components were ready cleaned off awaiting re-assembly and so the engine and gearbox are now back together and rotating silky smooth once more.

Very cool! thats a big milestone in itself! having a working power train once more  

I look forward to hearing the first startup  

 

speaking of Brian the Invacar, do you happen to have a close up picture of one of her rear mould lines?

the reason I ask, is one of the differences between AC and Invacar Model 70's is that Invacar Model 70's have pointy rear mould lines where as AC's have rounded mould lines

but the one thing iv never been able to verify is if, the pointy lines was a production change or if all Invacar Model 70's from the first had pointy lines (I have only been able to get a good look at the mould lines on newer Invacar Model 70's like my own)

so It would be good to know at least what Invacar Mk12's had as that would at least give me some idea what early Invacar Model 70's may have had

[AdgeCutler]

I'll try to remember to get you a photo Dez, having said that I still owe you an attempt of a piccy of my bulbous bulb etching. At present my mind is a complete flood of chaos, what with my own projects, friends projects, work projects and more so please bare with me. Perhaps @dollywobbler could help also, TWC is quite an early example.

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I'll try to remember to get you a photo Dez, having said that I still owe you an attempt of a piccy of my bulbous bulb etching. At present my mind is a complete flood of chaos, what with my own projects, friends projects, work projects and more so please bare with me. Perhaps @dollywobbler could help also, TWC is quite an early example.

No problem! its just something I remembered about so figured id mention before I forgot about it again no rush  

sadly due to various reasons I cant use TWC as a reliable datum point for research into early Invacar Model 70's

[LightBulbFun]

been talking with a fellow Model 70 owner and managed to get some very interesting pictures for my research etc  

first one is a couple pictures of NOO738M and its mould lines, this is quite exciting as its the earliest verified Invacar Model 70 I know of so im very pleased to have these detailed pictures of it, and its very interesting to see it does indeed have pointy mould like later Invacar Model 70's do,

this suggests that Invacar Model 70's had pointy mould lines from the get go (this Machine predating any of the factory fires or the such like)

although of course this machine could of had its rear body section replaced at some point in time, so I would still like to try and find other early Invacar Model 70's etc to check against

but it is certainly quite interesting to see  

 

and then I also got this picture of a Model 70 Mark A chassis which is very interesting, the main thing I noticed was just how much skinner/shorter the front out riggers where compared to a Mark B chassis, something I never noticed before now

 

I knew the Model 70 Mark B chassis had added strengthening so it better complied EU crash test regulations of the time (like with how far the controls would enter the cabin in the event of an impact etc) I knew of the strengthening bars at the rear, but I did wonder what did they do at the front and now I know  

for comparison purposes here is a Model 70 Mark B chassis note how much bigger the out riggers are are and longer going by the body mounting tags

(and you can also see the other Mark B stuff like the bars at the rear)

[bobdisk]

From what I can see of TPE285Ss pics, there is a mould line on the rear wings. I belive its a fairly late one, going by the reg number, and speedo type.

[LightBulbFun]

21 hours ago, bobdisk said:

From what I can see of TPE285Ss pics, there is a mould line on the rear wings. I belive its a fairly late one, going by the reg number, and speedo type.

indeed, TPE285S being an AC Model 70, she should have rounded mould lines and a Hoop style bonnet stay

according to my current research they never changed on AC's from start to finish 

but its Invacars im still not sure about, sadly NOO's engine cover lock did not want to play ball, so I dont know if it has a Hoop stay or a rod stay with moulded dimple like later Invacar do as seen in this picture of REV

AC's had a hoop stay and no little dimple

but i dont know if Invacars also had hoop stays originally without a dimple or if they where rod stay from the start

 

there are some clues in the DHSS parts manual that the Rod stay is a later production change, but they mention it as a change for both AC and Invacar, however iv never seen an AC with a Rod stay, always hoops so go figure!

[R1152]

On 21/04/2021 at 21:40, Mrs6C said:

If so, then that leads to the conclusion that a zimmer frame  or other walking frame would need to have been transported inside the invalid carriage, not just a wheelchair. A frame is quite different in size and shape to a wheelchair. I wonder how and where it fitted inside for transport?

I can remember having to transport a bariatric walking frame in my old E34 once. They are difficult things to fit into even a large passenger car.

@Mrs6C - behind the driver's seat, back to front so to speak?

[LightBulbFun]

On 15/04/2021 at 19:38, LightBulbFun said:

Finally managed to get another driving lesson in today!

was very pleased to be back behind the wheel again! although clearly am a little rusty hopefully ill clear up with use LOL

turned out she had a different car this time, although I dont know if its hanging around or not, but was some blue 68 plate Suzuki thing I failed to get a picture of, ill make sure to grab a picture next time

still just as painful to drive as the Peugeot 208 before it sadly, although I still need to see if I can fine tune the seating position etc

it also has a 20-40-60 speedo which I really dont like as the non numbered 30-50 etc markers are small and white on a silver background so you cant really see them very well, which I dont like at all! I like to know what speed im doing without having to stare into the speedo like im trying to hypnotise it, as I also like to look at the road and at least see which idiot is running/pulling out in front of me (a couple pedestrians, a UPS van, and a guy doing an unsafe over take this time round, the UPS Van at least had the decency to apologies with his hazards LOL but having a car barrelling towards you on the wrong side of the road is not fun LOL)

the instructor said feel free to use the online thing she setup to book lessons myself according to whatever times that are available and suit me, so I have got my next lesson booked for the 20th  

Oh forgot to mention at the time but had my lesson on the 20th, it went well, I even got a little progress tracking card thingy from the instructor, and apparently im doing better then I think I am LOL

as she filled in 3s 3.5s 4s at the end of the lesson for the various categories etc I was expecting 1s and 2s LOL

she said when im consistently doing "4s and 5s" then I should be ready for my test, I look forward to that  

next lessons are on the 26th then the 29th then the 3rd of the 5th, then ill top my account with credit again and book a bunch more

so yeah so far getting on well with the new instructor, which im pleased about

oh and for those curious this is the car, I was able to find a better seating position, hopefully i can find it again next lesson LOL! always a bit of a faff since the seat is obviously never in the same position you left it in! (and still not what id call comfortable, its still a modern after all!)

I wonder if any driving instructors/schools used 2CV's? LOL

[Mrs6C]

34 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I even got a little progress tracking card thingy from the instructor

That's a great idea! It should be very helpful to you both to see how you are making progress. Glad to see the score is getting higher, too!

The Suzuki Swift looks quite charming from that angle.

For adjusting the seat and controls, IIRC the examiner will look to check that you are adjusting the car seat, mirrors etc. to meet your needs before you move off, also that you are familiar with the position of the controls, so it's a good practice to set them all up for yourself at the start of each lesson, even if it is a faff...

[LightBulbFun]

31 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

That's a great idea! It should be very helpful to you both to see how you are making progress. Glad to see the score is getting higher, too!

Yeah  

37 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

The Suzuki Swift looks quite charming from that angle.

yeah its not bad modern for a modern, but it still kinda looks like someone over inflated a modern BMW Mini, which is impressive because they already look over inflated to me LOL

37 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

For adjusting the seat and controls, IIRC the examiner will look to check that you are adjusting the car seat, mirrors etc. to meet your needs before you move off, also that you are familiar with the position of the controls, so it's a good practice to set them all up for yourself at the start of each lesson, even if it is a faff...

Yeah she does check, and I always do adjust everything it as best as I can, I was just complaining, that im never quite sure if I have it set the way I did last time because the seat positioning is never how I left it before, so I always have to reset it up again and im never quite sure if I have it just right or not and if it will be a "comfortable" (relatively speaking) drive or a really painful one