invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

im back, sadly a Fail

heres the fail sheet

first one was on a busy slip road in stop start traffic joining a dual carriage, where there was a grey small Peugeot where the examiner had to grab the wheel, I did check my mirrors, but I Just did not see and cannot recall seeing that Peugot, I recall seeing a Big pickup truck which is who I thought I pulled out on

the Peugeot must have been in my blind spot or such which I obviously did not check well enough! (I only know about the Peugeot as my examiner told me about it in the "debriefing") 

 

the other one was I was joining a slip road from a minor road and there was a speeding BMW who's speed I miss judged so he went around me (examiner did not have to take any action so "only" a serious fault, but the BMW did then pull along side me and was about to start having a go but thankfully decided against it! LOL)

 

I will say it was raining heavily all throughout which really did not help things like visibility  etc!

 

(only 1 Minor tho which is better then the 6 last test so theres a positive at least LOL)

 

plan from here is to sack off my current instructor, as there are several things I dont like and clearly his teaching style is just not working for me

(like he will only give negative feedback, he wont say anything when I do something correctly, some positive feedback would be nice!)

 

and then figure out where to go from there with feedback from here etc

(I know in future lesson with whoever, id like to do a couple lessons just focusing one specific thing until its drilled into my head, like do an entire 2 hour lesson entirely just on parallel parking for example)

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, sierraman said:

Saw an Invacar last night, passed it outside a car spares shop at Intake, Sheffield. It looked mid resto. Didn’t grab a picture as I was in a rush.

ah cool, always quite happy to hear when someone paps an Invacar in the wild like that it means its being used  

 

going by the location im guessing it was this one?

MPH759P, the first Model 70 that I returned to its correct identity/registration  

I first came across it, for sale back when I was actively searching for a Model 70 for myself, but it turned out the reason it was for sale was because it was on a Q plate which was forcing the guy who owns it to have to sell it even though he really wanted to keep it (it was to do with him losing storage space and the Q plate made it difficult/expensive for him to try and park it on the road)

however once I realised this was the case I helped him return it to its original registration so he was then able to keep it

and its now one of the very few Model 70's that get used on a weekly/daily basis  

 

you can read about it as it happened in real time here all the way back on page 26!  

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-model-70-survivors-list-on-page-24-pre-model-70-ac-and-invacar-survivors-lists-added-on-page-135/page/26/?tab=comments#comment-1760809

 

[Cavcraft]

At least you tried and you can chalk it down to experience. Good luck for the next one.

[Mrs6C]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

must have been in my blind spot

Quite possibly and it happens - mirrors will only show you so much. Checking mirrors all the way down the sliproad to see cars in the distance - on both main road and sliproad - that are heading your way is useful, also doing the 'lifesaver' manouvre which is to look over your shoulder as you approach the end of the sliproad, to see what is in your blindspot. Hey ho, these are things you can practise and it will get easier.

Good idea to do some lessons focussing on the things that didn't go so well in the test. On the positive side, you know you can do all of these things to standard, because you did them last time successfully. Also, this time you didn't get caught out again by stopped traffic that was parked, so that's a bit of a win.

Something else to consider tis to make sure you move your head physically to check your rear view mirror, so that it's obvious to the examiner that you are using your mirrors.

Never mind, you can go round again and hopefully it won't take as long to get the next date.

[High Jetter]

Gutted for you, LBF. Joining from slip roads can catch out  more experienced drivers - I've had to 'make allowances' for joining vehicles on many occasions. A test in the wet must make it even more daunting. A different tutor will give you some things from a different perspective, which is always good. I'm convinced that I wouldn't have passed my test had I not had a different tutor for my last lesson due to something he pointed out that the previous guy never had. (Having said 'last', I also believe that when you have passed your test is when you start really learning to drive.)

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah cool, always quite happy to hear when someone paps an Invacar in the wild like that it means its being used  

 

going by the location im guessing it was this one?

MPH759P, the first Model 70 that I returned to its correct identity/registration  

I first came across it, for sale back when I was actively searching for a Model 70 for myself, but it turned the reason it was for sale was because it was on a Q plate which was forcing the guy who owns it to have to sell it even though he really wanted to keep it (it was to do with him losing storage space and the Q plate made it difficult/expensive for him to try and park it on the road)

however once I realised this was the case I helped him return it to its original registration so he was then able to keep it

and its now one of the very few Model 70's that get used on a weekly/daily basis  

 

you can read about it as it happened in real time here all the way back on page 26!  

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-model-70-survivors-list-on-page-24-pre-model-70-ac-and-invacar-survivors-lists-added-on-page-135/page/26/?tab=comments#comment-1760809

 

That’s the one! 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Cavcraft said:

At least you tried and you can chalk it down to experience. Good luck for the next one.

Thanks   hopefully 3rd time lucky/is the charm as they say!

43 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Quite possibly and it happens - mirrors will only show you so much. Checking mirrors all the way down the sliproad to see cars in the distance - on both main road and sliproad - that are heading your way is useful, also doing the 'lifesaver' manouvre which is to look over your shoulder as you approach the end of the sliproad, to see what is in your blindspot. Hey ho, these are things you can practise and it will get easier.

Good idea to do some lessons focussing on the things that didn't go so well in the test. On the positive side, you know you can do all of these things to standard, because you did them last time successfully. Also, this time you didn't get caught out again by stopped traffic that was parked, so that's a bit of a win.

Something else to consider tis to make sure you move your head physically to check your rear view mirror, so that it's obvious to the examiner that you are using your mirrors.

Never mind, you can go round again and hopefully it won't take as long to get the next date.

indeed I was thinking about that after the fact etc, it was something @Zelandeth had mentioned a while back as well (with regards to driving an Invacar safely),

I will say the one thing I dont like about it is you have to take your eyes off the road ahead and I dont like that idea incase the person ahead of me slams on the anchors suddenly while Im checking over my shoulder,

which was especially the worry during the test I had today, as it was slow moving and stop start traffic on the entire slip road, not a situation I had quite encountered  before, and I was worried about running out slip road before I could Join etc

(and as a side note does not help that the car I was driving has appalling visibility, that 2019 Pug 208 is just not a nice car to drive, hopefully whichever instructor I end up with next has a car that works better with me at least!)

25 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Gutted for you, LBF. Joining from slip roads can catch out  more experienced drivers - I've had to 'make allowances' for joining vehicles on many occasions. A test in the wet must make it even more daunting. A different tutor will give you some things from a different perspective, which is always good. I'm convinced that I wouldn't have passed my test had I not had a different tutor for my last lesson due to something he pointed out that the previous guy never had. (Having said 'last', I also believe that when you have passed your test is when you start really learning to drive.)

Yeah thats why I have really been wanting for a long time now to go for a drive with someone else, like my mum or a fellow shitter, just to get another view/opinion on how my driving is etc but thats easier said then done!

 

[High Jetter]

3 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I will say the one thing I dont like about it is you have to take your eyes off the road ahead and I dont like that idea incase the person ahead of me slams on the anchors suddenly while Im checking over my shoulder,

In that case, I'd say you're probably too close. It develops over time into a very quick glance, and you need to ensure you have enough distance to do it safely.

[Six-cylinder]

I have been to the FoD this afternoon and all is well, photo timed at 5:36 pm.

[LightBulbFun]

On 13/10/2020 at 19:06, sierraman said:

That’s the one! 

Yeah its fun how he gets spotted/papped by various people, I know one of Dollywobblers followers on youtube spotted him and he was even papped by someone on instagram!

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz_Q1ObnfzJ/

 

also wanted to mention @busmansholiday also helped a lot in reuniting this AC Model 70 with its original  ID, volunteering and visiting it for me in person and being my eyes and ears over in Sheffield so he could help Brian (the owner of the Model 70) locate the chassis number for me to decode 

 

(as a side note im surprised TPA has not been similarly papped by anyone else during its regular trips out)

[Eyersey1234]

Sorry to hear this @LightBulbFun I hope the 3rd test goes better. 

[Eyersey1234]

Some modern cars do seem to have appalling visibility from inside though with pillars and things in the way, why they design them like it is beyond me

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Eyersey1234 said:

Some modern cars do seem to have appalling visibility from inside though with pillars and things in the way, why they design them like it is beyond me

I understand its to do with crash safety 

ie in a rollover crash the roof of the car has to support the weight of the car without collapsing , so big thick pillars etc

(tho you have to wonder at what point does that itself start causing accidents themselves LOL)

[Eyersey1234]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

I understand its to do with crash safety 

ie in a rollover crash the roof of the car has to support the weight of the car without collapsing , so big thick pillars etc

(tho you have to wonder at what point does that itself start causing accidents themselves LOL)

Thanks LBF. I wonder that too

[sierraman]

I thought the Invacar was banned from the road in 2003? 

[Out Run]

10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I understand its to do with crash safety 

ie in a rollover crash the roof of the car has to support the weight of the car without collapsing , so big thick pillars etc

(tho you have to wonder at what point does that itself start causing accidents themselves LOL)

The pillars have also ended up as thick as they are, due to the need to house airbags.

[LightBulbFun]

29 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I thought the Invacar was banned from the road in 2003? 

Nope not at all!

just a damn persistent urban myth that wont go away! LOL

 

it just originated from the fact the Government simply withdrew/recalled all the ones they owned and sent them for destruction 

exactly like how a bus company would withdraw a bus and send it for scrap

but it does not mean that type of bus is now banned from the road!

 

they where never officially specifically outlawed, for example keep in mind the very few but very real private examples that where also running around at the same time

(JNJ135L, JHJ548N, NPN924P and REV451R are the Private Model 70's that I know of which where in use and continued to be in use throughout and after the end of the IVS scheme )

but since the goverment owned 99% of the ones that existed, it gave the impression that they where banned as they suddenly all vanished, but they where just simply withdrawn not banned

 

the only thing different to a bus company, is the Government would try and take back any vehicles of theirs that had somehow escaped, but even then things where worked out there, and thats no longer a worry/issue today  

 

and as a fun side note, although the official end date was the 31st of March 2003, about 33 Model 70 remained in ministry service afer that date, because of difficulties in migrating those users to regular cars,  the Last Government Model 70 was not withdrawn until the the 14th of October 2004! TJN352R was that Model 70, used by Marion Webb, who was Married to Dennis webb who owned REV451R between 1985 and 2000, TJN352R is now happily preserved in the Coventry motor museum and she has the exact same aftermarket clock fitted to her dash board that REV does

 

[Eyersey1234]

I do wonder given by 2003 there weren't many people using DHSS Invacars etc why they couldn't just have let them keep using them, surely that would have been cheaper than paying for lessons, tests etc to get them into a regular car. 

[sierraman]

What happened to them all in March 2003? Did they all get rounded up and baled?

[LightBulbFun]

33 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I do wonder given by 2003 there weren't many people using DHSS Invacars etc why they couldn't just have let them keep using them, surely that would have been cheaper than paying for lessons, tests etc to get them into a regular car. 

Yeah, me and Stuart have wondered exactly that, probably would have been cheaper to just them dwindle one by one until none remain

although I do wonder how long that would have taken, Marion Webb (sadly) passed away only last year, and I know she probably would have been using TJN352R until the very end if she could have!

or if lets say you got issued a Model 70 in 1978 when you where 20, you would only be 62 today! so could easily be driving it for another 30 years until you finally cark it or give up driving at 92 in 2050!

[LightBulbFun]

31 minutes ago, sierraman said:

What happened to them all in March 2003? Did they all get rounded up and baled?

pretty much!

every single Government invalid vehicle, apart from those few released to museums etc,  was supposed to be destroyed

or in official words "mutilated beyond economic repair" 

which is why so few exist/survived today sadly, not helped by people doing stupid crap like this with escaped invacars in the 1990s etc

https://www.facebook.com/stirling.morley/videos/102368189794173

which lead the Government to clamp down even harder on making sure vehicles got destroyed, and lead to the extinction of several rarer types of Invalid vehicle

(thankfully MHJ22P is in much more responsible hands these days!)

 

but thankfully a handful have slipped through the net, helped in part that a fibreglass car has no scrap value and would actually cost money to get rid of, so a few scrap yards simply bundled them away, until they where forgotten about and then unearthed again 20-40 years later and saved  

others survived when being withdrawn in the 1980's and 1990's by being rung with the ID's of other cars to escape capture  by the government (as at that point in time they where stolen government property) 

and a small number where simply just stripped of their reg plates and VIN plates and given away by Approved repairs to close friends etc with the promise that they must never see the road again or they (the Approved Repairer) would get in trouble for letting one escape

(it was also pretty standard practice to strip a vehicle of its Identity when sending it off for destruction ) 

 

thankfully since about 2005 with the closure of the Invalid vehicle service, any government invalid vehicles that managed to survive/escape, effectively became public domain/property of whoever hands they where in at that point in time

and these days, if you buy an ex Ministry invalid vehicle, you can apply for  its V5 in your name, safe in the knowledge that no the government wont come round and break your knee caps!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

I have been to the FoD this afternoon and all is well, photo timed at 5:36 pm.

Nice to see REV and Dolly again and that all is well  

What will I get first, my driving licence or REV road worthy

place your bets now! LOL

[Out Run]

9 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Nice to see REV and Dolly again and that all is well  

What will I get first, my driving licence or REV road worthy

place your bets now! LOL

Did you keep your insurance policy running, or did you cancel it in the cooling off period? I can’t remember.

[plasticvandan]

Main reason they were.withdrawn eventually is due to cost,it was still costing several million a year to keep the scheme running even into the late nineties,as was brought up in the house of commons,why are we spending three million a year in maintaining a fleet of cars that were meant to have been withdrawn in 1981?

[plasticvandan]

The number of vehicles provided under the invalid vehicle scheme at the end of each of the last five years was as follows:

Year	Total fleet size
1996–97	1,215
1997–98	1,054
1998–99	951
1999–2000	754
2000–01	629

[Eyersey1234]

2 hours ago, sierraman said:

What happened to them all in March 2003? Did they all get rounded up and baled?

I believe officially they were meant to be scrapped but some managed to escape their appointment with the cutters torch

[Eyersey1234]

I wonder what would happen if you turned up for your test in REV @LightBulbFun.

That reminds me I saw a 52 reg K11 Micra being used as a driving school car earlier, unusual to see a car of that age being used like that 

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I wonder what would happen if you turned up for your test in REV @LightBulbFun.

given that one of the requirements is the car has to have 4 wheels...

I do wonder what the oldest/shitest car is you could take your test in is

https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car

reading the requirements above, something like a Morris minor with some more modern front seats fitted would meet the requirements 

[Slowsilver]

@quicksilver took his test in 2003 in a 1978 Ford Fiesta Mark 1 1100L. The passenger seat did not have a headrest so we took a trip to Hughes scrapyard in Bicester in an attempt to find a suitable seat with a built in headrest. Loads of Mark 1s without headrests and loads of Mark 2s with headrests which wouldn't fit. Eventually found only one Mark 1 with a passenger seat with a headrest, which was piled 3 high on top of two other scrappers. Spent an interesting* half-hour or so hanging out of the passenger door with various tools trying to remove the seat. Eventually succeeded and dropped it into the copious amounts of mud on the ground. Fitted it to our car, added an extra stick-on mirror for the examiner and it was good to go. This was when the maintenance questions had just become part of the test and he was hoping that the examiner would ask him how to switch on the rear fog light so that he could answer that it didn't have one and was too old to need one. Didn't ask that though but no comments were made about the car and he passed first time.
 

[LightBulbFun]

hah thats neat and a bit amusing 

 

Yeah a lot of the show me tell me questions would just not be applicable/work with an old car LOL

while I think the tell me questions are just general questions about any general car and not yours specifically, so you would still have to answer them appropriately

 

the show me questions could be interesting in something old/shite! (which is when they physically get you to do something on the car)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-show-me-tell-me-vehicle-safety-questions/car-show-me-tell-me-vehicle-safety-questions

 

"show me how to wash the front windscreen"

*grabs water bottle and sticks arm out the window* (hey if you can pass an MOT like this then surely its good enough for the driving test? LOL) 

or nearly crashing the car laughing because he asked you how to put the rear demister  on, in your 59 Morris minor  

 

the other one I have wondered about, is where do Pre-selector gearboxes/vehicles fall on the manual or automatic spectrum LOL

 

it is worth noting that when London Transport introduced the FS Class of ford Transit buses they had to find a bunch of older drivers with a manual PSV licence entitlement as everyone else in the past 20 years had been taught on preselector or automatic gearboxes (RT or RM), so  I guess back in the day they only counted as an automatic gearbox? (assuming the info provided is accurate and not just an old wives tail or such)

http://www.countrybus.org/FS/FS.htm

 

but I suspect if you just did not say anything the examiner would just see 3 Pedals and think its a manual car (until he notices you shifting before "clutching" LOL)

hey @vulgalour can I borrow the Lanchester for my next driving test?