invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Julian's were the ones I saw,in colour ! Apparently it was a jaw dropping experience,they were stacked three high as far as you could see

I can imagine! would loved to have been able to go there in its prime  

(just reminded me I do have 1 colour photo not sure if its one of julians, on hand but im not sure I can share it or not sadly)

 

Just now, Mrs6C said:

Top job on the Tribunal outcome!

Glad that @Zelandeth was able to help you out with this. It must be a huge weight off your mind.

Thanks  very much so!

[ETCHY]

58 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

*cracks knuckles*

 

note the the towing eye on the AC Acedes Mk15's thats are not present on the Mk14 and the Model 70  

someone left the indicators on one of the Model 70's!

 

 

and where wheelchairs go to die!

 

 

IIRC Julian got a chance to visit in the 1990s and snapped some pictures would be very cool to see those some day  

Superb thanks for posting those pics. I'd heard about that place from a chap I used to work with. How cool would it have been to get in there. They do look cute.

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, ETCHY said:

Superb thanks for posting those pics. I'd heard about that place from a chap I used to work with. How cool would it have been to get in there. They do look cute.

No Problem! always happy to help make others happy!  

did the guy you know work there or did he just happen to hear about it via other means?

[ETCHY]

He worked in the civil service and visited the stores. I remember him saying they had loads of Invacars even old ones. The pic bears that out. It would have been mid 1990s I reckon. Not seen the chap in years.

I like archive photos they were a treat to see ??

[DodgyBastard]

Someone posted this on Facebook, apparently they are in Brechin, I might have a look next time I'm passing.

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, DodgyBastard said:

Someone posted this on Facebook, apparently they are in Brechin, I might have a look next time I'm passing.

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
 

I knew of that location beforehand but many thanks for the tip off! @OliD-E let me know about that post as well  

they are owned by Scott meline

I knew he had TTW991R and "1LEG" there (and he also has RPU821R somewhere) but I did not know he stored his Model 57 outside (or 2 as it turns out! I know he had 1940PE which is the second oldest known surviving Model 57, its the one with indicator ears, but I did not know of the other one next to it) 

its a bit sad to see them stored like that, the Model 57 being a Metal car you really don't want to leave outside like that!

I know also know scott also owns a couple other Model 70's, 1 or 2 more with unknown ID's (inc "1LEG" ) which I have been trying to get him to check the chassis numbers of so I can ID them for my records etc

but trying to talk with/get info from anyone involved with Invacars is always PITA it seems sadly, ill have to give him another poke!

I dont know if he lives where those cars are stored, but if next time you could get the chassis number of 1 Leg at least when you go past that would be greatly appreciated!

(even just some more detailed photos of the 2 Model 70's and 2 Model 57's there would be very much appreciated!)

here's where the chassis number will be on 1 Leg (I don't think 1 Leg has its VIN plate anymore, so you will have to find an FS880 key live up to your user name and check under the front service hatch/bonnet! LOL)

(I did manage to get scott to check there but he said it was covered in road dirt etc and did not have anything to clean it off with, and thats where things have been for the past couple months sadly!)

On 8/27/2019 at 4:30 PM, LightBulbFun said:

a Picture of the VIN plate car if possible would be epic  it should look something like this, however its inside the car so it might be a bit tricky to get to!

also a picture of the chassis number on the chassis itself would also be epic, again tho might be a bit tricky to get to!

 

if you have an FS880 key you should be able to open all the locked doors/hatches however 

 

just general detailed high rez clear shots of the entire car and interior would be much appreciated

[LightBulbFun]

after a rather long slog I just finished going through every registration from VPG-S to WPM-S in steps of 25 (but doing it like 249 250 251-274-75-76 etc to be safe) so well over 720 registration numbers if my maths is correct!

in search for the missing 48 or so Model 70's that come after the VPGS243S-VPG269S block of Model 70's

sadly I did not find any other Model 70 blocks, which leads me to believe that the last AC Model 70's where all built for Northern ireland 

 

I did come across a few amusing non Model 70 DVLA results tho  

A Ferrari, thats diesel powered and articulated...

 

this, which quite curiously enough does not have a Body type listed when I check that with my 3rd party tools

 

 

and one for @quicksilver an MG, that comes back as a "ROVER MAESTRO" on the MOT checker

 

 

 

[quicksilver]

WPL2S isn't that strange really, it's a 1986 MG Maestro and presumably that reg was transferred to it from something else. WPK872S was probably a Priestman tracked excavator.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

WPL2S isn't that strange really, it's a 1986 MG Maestro and presumably that reg was transferred to it from something else. WPK872S was probably a Priestman tracked excavator.

aye thats why I didn't mention the fact its on an S reg as I figured out pretty quickly that it was a reg transfer (original reg is D278OVX apparently which funnily enough is an Essex reg  ) , but the DVLA checker/MOT checker discrepancy is amusing/interesting (especially so in that the MOT checker says its getting the data from the DVLA!) also untaxed since 2011 but no MOT records...

[somewhatfoolish]

10 hours ago, quicksilver said:

WPL2S isn't that strange really, it's a 1986 MG Maestro and presumably that reg was transferred to it from something else. WPK872S was probably a Priestman tracked excavator.

I'd be surprised if anyone bothered registering a track-layer, more likely a rubber duck or a mobile crane.

[LightBulbFun]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:23 PM, Datsuncog said:

Some of my colleagues at the time in The Disabilities Trust had mentioned that at least one Invacar in the Sussex area was privately owned and so non-NHS - there was some confusion regarding what to do about this one.

 

I was reading back through the thread as I do from time to time

and this got me thinking

I wonder if the Private Model 70 your talking about  is JNJ135L or NPN924P?

as funnily enough both "NJ"  and "PN" are Brighton registration marks and if my geography is correct, brighton is in Sussex

 

On 2/12/2019 at 3:23 PM, Datsuncog said:

Unfortunately, I never did find out how that situation panned out - but I'd like to think that it might be one of the five survivors...

so id like to think that indeed its one (or 2!) of the five or so survivors  (keeping in mind that Private AC Model 70's where registered seemingly where the first owner was, like any other privately bought motor car would of been)

 

 

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I wonder if the Private Model 70 your talking about  is JNJ135L or NPN924P?

as funnily enough both "NJ"  and "PN" are Brighton registration marks and if my geography is correct, brighton is in Sussex

It may well have been - from memory, it was owned by an elderly lady out near Brighton Marina, at the far end of Madeira Drive... chances seems quite high that one of the two Brighton-plated private Model 70s may well have been hers!

That's good to think that it might be a survivor, as I understand she was very fond of it and didn't want it to be taken away.

The staff at the time really didn't get very good advice: we were just instructed to give everyone with a Model 70 leaflets for Motability schemes, and push the "gonna be illegal soon" line.

My service user already had a Vauxhall Zafira in Doom Blue, so luckily I didn't have to give anyone the hard sell...

[LightBulbFun]

59 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

It may well have been - from memory, it was owned by an elderly lady out near Brighton Marina, at the far end of Madeira Drive... chances seems quite high that one of the two Brighton-plated private Model 70s may well have been hers!

That's good to think that it might be a survivor, as I understand she was very fond of it and didn't want it to be taken away.

The staff at the time really didn't get very good advice: we were just instructed to give everyone with a Model 70 leaflets for Motability schemes, and push the "gonna be illegal soon" line.

My service user already had a Vauxhall Zafira in Doom Blue, so luckily I didn't have to give anyone the hard sell...

interesting  

I have sent a message to stuart to see if he knows anymore info on these 2  (as if I recall correctly he was the one who tracked both of these private Model 70's down back in the day for Ansley back when DHSS cars where still in a grey area)

I know both are with private collectors now, so if one them was hers I wonder when/why she gave it up or did she pass away and it was sold on? (if she is still alive id like to ask her as to why she bought one privately LOL)

 

one of the other things I have wondered on the private Model 70 front was what would be the deciding factor for a private individual, for getting their Model 70 from Invacar or getting it from AC.

BTW its worth noting that until I uncovered REV's (and JHJ548N's) Chassis number it was thought Private Invacar Model 70's had normal chassis numbers hence why Stuart thought VES108S (ex XEV88S) was a private Model 70 until I debunked that (and Stuart didn't actually know JHJ548N was a private Model 70 until I uncovered so)

sometimes I really do surprise myself with how much current Model 70 info out there is actually thanks to my research!

[cms206]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:03 AM, LightBulbFun said:

I was reading up on my Traffic signs while waiting for impending doom I mean the Tribunal later today https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519129/know-your-traffic-signs.pdf

and I was surprised to see this  

in that I was not surprised at the rule, I already know about that but I did not expect to see any other modern Government documentation make reference to the original invalid carriage regulations  

but its good to have as its another second official government source that you can show/quote to anyone if anyone questions you driving your Model 70 (or Mk12 if your particularly brave/insane  ) on the motorway

When I was doing my PSV training way back in 2008 we did quite a lot of motorway driving - I certainly drove to Grangemouth and back on the morning of my test.

[mrbenn]

On 9/27/2019 at 7:05 PM, LightBulbFun said:

ah sorry I was thinking in Lighting enthusiast mode!

by reflector I mean the silver backing that goes behind a light source to reflect light forward of said light source  

 

 

Finally after over a year of fighting the f*ckers I have a result, a good result! Looks like I finally won! (well I think so if im reading it correctly!)

many many (repeat ad infinitum) thanks to @Zelandeth for helping me in my time of need during this whole clusterf*ck, and for coming with me to the tribunal with me today! I am seriously thankful for the help you have provided and just being there for me so I was not all alone during all of it!

 

this is technically not the end of the road, ideally I should be on PIP as well, but im very relieved and happy to at least be on ESA, as it should cover my basic expenses and allow me to properly research into getting PIP in my own time/leasure

and of course the money from ESA will help me moblise myself with REV which I very much look forward to  hopefully all this combined down the road will  help lead to getting a Job!  (and I can finally get that dental appointment sorted out LOL! as well as probably look into renewing my glasses)

 

also now with all the government stuff finally done and over with for now! I can finally focus on getting driving lessons, Ill be calling them in a couple weeks or so as I need to recoperate first after all of this! (the past 2 weeks or so have been very bad/painful on the back)

Missed this. Pleased its finally getting sorted! Not before time, either. Well done for persevering with it

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, mrbenn said:

Missed this. Pleased its finally getting sorted! Not before time, either. Well done for persevering with it

Thanks!  

I think its still down to the to the Secretary of state to decide if I get ESA or not, but this tribunal replaces the previous rejections, so hopefully I should be accepted!

 

speaking of many thanks to Zel,

I got the "DHSS List of Spare Parts for Invalid Three-Wheelers" Book in PDF form from him today  

and its been VERY EXCITING reading through its, its provided me with a wealth of new information and helped confirm previous suspons

im still "digesting" it all  but here are a few snippets 

for example as I said here

 

On 9/20/2019 at 10:35 PM, LightBulbFun said:

 

side note I showed Simon of the ICR where the Chassis plate of an Electric AC Model 64 is, he owns "MOJ416" (false plate) but he did not know the chassis number nor where the chassis plate was, so I showed him where it is

and so he sent me a picture of it and much to my surprise it says Model 64 Mk5!

it was though until that picture, Mk4A was the highest revision of the Model 64

I do wonder if the AC Model 64 Mk5 has has parallelogram front suspension rather then C tube front suspension, much like how the Invacar Mk12 was fitted with it for the Mk12E

its also worth noting that during my talking with stuart I happened to accidently have reminded him that the AC Acedes Mk14 Model 67 does not have Parallelogram front suspension but actually has C tube type front suspension, and as such he was able to edit his big book draft and correct that mistake (he apparently wrote the Model 67 section of the book many years ago and new info has come to light since then, so when he revisited the section to answer a question I had asked, he spotted the mistake, you can actually see the mistake in the Small book as I call it where on the Invacar Mk12 page it says "while the 12E of April 1969 was fitted with the new Parallelogram front suspension of the AC Acedes Mk14" )

although its worth noting that sadly Stuart has only seen 1 Mk14 up close, so its unknown if all Mk14's had C tube suspension or that or if for some weird reason this 1 Mk14 stuart did see was fitted with older type suspension, or I also wonder if on the Mk14A one of the changes with the "A" was the fitting of parallelogram front suspension 

speaking of chassis plate madness its worth noting that the youngest AC Acedes Model 57 Stuart knows of apparently says "AC Acedes Mk18" on the chassis plate, Mk18! go figure that one out!

when discussing the suspension stuff with stuart I said I wonder if the Mk18 has parallelogram front suspension to which stuart said thats a good thought! but that sadly he never looked under the front service cover of that one, so that remains a mystery

i'm all the more eager to see what the spare parts book has listed in it in terms of the different invalid vehicles it covers (I know it covers a wide range of vehicles, so it might give us some info on the whole suspension thing, and what was different between the Mk14 and Mk14A for example)

 

I speculated about the Mk5 having parallelogram, and indeed i was correct the AC Model 64 Mk5 was indeed fitted with Parallelogram suspension (there is no mention of a Mk18 Model 57 so I wonder if Stuart happened to have miss read the VIN plate on that Model 57)

 

 

and the first AC Model 64 Mk5 still shows up on the DVLA!

 

"AZ" LOL there's a Tesla self driving car joke in there somewhere

and the parts book also confirms that it was only the AC Acedes Mk15 Model 67 that was fitted with parallelogram front suspension 

and in the Mk12 section it also confirms that as I thought it looks "WOO976F"' may have been a victim of number plate shenanigans, the chassis number tied to the number plate "WOO976F" is inline with what I would expect it to be, and is indeed before @egg's Mk12  (im still waiting for WOO976F to be run by my HPI guy to make sure)

its also interesting to note that the Invacar Mk12 had a unique Villiers engine/gearbox variant not shared with any other invalid vehicle (Specification No 313F where as every other villiers 11E powered vehicle seemingly had Specification 419F, I wonder what the spare engine @egg has is ) 

 

there is quite a bit of interesting/new Model 70 info that I still need to sort through and discuss with stuart first 

but yeah im very happy and excited right now, I finally have the parts manual in PDF form and as I thought its provided me with a wealth of new info  

BTW for @dollywobbler , the spare parts book does mention the Lucas part number for the indicator stalk which tallies with what @Mrs6C and @Zelandeth posted  

 

and for @Zelandeth wheel studs are listed on their own as Store no STY476, sadly there not in the list of parts that can be sourced from local suppliers like the above indicator stalk

but it does mean that in a spare parts stash somewhere there might be a bag of wheel studs  (they came in bags of 12 if im reading things correctly)

they are listed under the wheels section, which lists exactly when the change from 12 to 10 inch wheels took place, which I have been wondering since finding out that Early Model 70 Mark Bs still had 12 inch wheels

from GPL351N and JAR185N onwards is when the 10 inch wheels where fitted it looks like   (Dunlop LP 1161 is the part number for the 10 inch wheels for those wondering)

[egg]

Here's my other engine number chap, thanks.

[LightBulbFun]

interesting 313P! I wonder where thats from  

[egg]

Who knows!

As a result of your doc, I came across a Girling catalogue - that lists under AC some invalid car brake parts supplied by Girling. Page 5.

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/94895fc8/files/uploaded/GIRLING VEHICLE APPLICATIONS. AC. ABARTH. ALFA. ASTON MARTIN%2C AUSTIN. HEALEY. BARRETT%2C BOND%2C CLAN%2C DAIMLER%2C ELVA. 1960-85.pdf

 

[LightBulbFun]

very cool find!

they list the Model 70 even : )

its interesting how the Mk15 Model 67 is said to span 1969-1972

I dont THINK thats accurate as the Model 70 was a direct replacement of the Mk15, but who knows!

but its interesting to see when (supposedly) the transition from Mk14 to Mk15 happened,

while the DHSS parts book lists its for some vehicles, (see the AC Model 64 snip above ) it sadly does not list it for all, and sadly does not list the registration ranges of the Mk14/Mk14A/M15

 

or for @plasticvandan heres the Electric Tippen delta Mk ranges  

funnily enough BKV682E is a survivor! what are the chances of that  (or hopefully it is!)

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18215/lot/455/

BTW its interesting to note for Model 70 Tyres, it lists both Radial and Bias ply tyres for 12 inch wheels

but only Bias ply tyres for 10 inch wheels

 

(I would post the the whole PDF, but it contains various chassis numbers, and I dont want a bad member of the public to try and claim a V5 for a car they dont have!)

[LightBulbFun]

From simon, the AC Acedes Mk14 Model 67 C Tube suspension setup  I have not seen under the front service hatch of any Model 67 before so its very cool to see under one finally!

 

(BTW its interesting to note that according to the spare parts list, the Invacar Mk12E had a tow bar like the AC Acedes Mk15, and looking at the heywood pictures you can JUST about make it out on the top row of Mk12's )

[LightBulbFun]

BTW now that I have seen what a C tube suspension setup looks like in detail (its funny just how empty and crude Model 67, Mk14 looks under the bonnet compared to a Model 70!)

its pretty obvious that the Model 64 Mk5 had parallelogram suspension from this picture I saved of "416MOJ" when she was for sale on ebay  

a fun case of hiding in plain sight!

[plasticvandan]

love seeing original "secret" paperwork,keep it coming  over the winter i hope as part of my rehabilitation living with my dad after my marriage breakup to make a large scale model of a Tippen Delta

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

love seeing original "secret" paperwork,keep it coming  over the winter i hope as part of my rehabilitation living with my dad after my marriage breakup to make a large scale model of a Tippen Delta

aye same, happy to hear your enjoying seeing it  I look forward to seeing your large scale model, always good to have something to set your mind to during tough times

(see this thread as an example!)

Sadly the Model 60 Barrett midget section is empty, I was most looking forward to reading there given how little is known about the oddball invalid vehicles especially, ill have to Ask John if he does not happen to have the paperwork for that section tucked away somewhere else

(I really need to send him an email updating him on things, I was hoping to make more progress on getting REV roadworthy before I emailed him, but as is the case with cars so often do, things have not gone entirely to plan and progress has been slower then I would of liked there) 

the Parts book is a really interesting view into what invalid vehicles where still in use in the 1970's/1980s

I was pleasantly surprised to see the Stanley Mk7 Model 65 was listed

sadly no chassis number or registration numbers are listed, but I never knew they did a Stanley Mk7A  

there was also the Argson electric, its not surprising its there, but it was still quite amusing to see such an old invalid carriage listed still into the 1970s/1980s  

 

 

they even had to deal with sourcing replacement batteries

 

and then they had to do the same with the Electric Tippen Delta 10 years later

[plasticvandan]

ive got a few pages on the Barret Midget and Minor in my master catalogue of all available models from 1959,its all packed away at the moment but ill see if i can dig it out in the next week

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

ive got a few pages on the Barret Midget and Minor in my master catalogue of all available models from 1959,its all packed away at the moment but ill see if i can dig it out in the next week

oh cool I look forward to seeing that   

im curious if its from 1959 does that mean it does not include the Invacar Mk12? I wonder if the 1960 copy has a really early Mk12 Pictured  

has the master catalog has been digitised? its one of those things that really should be preserved digitised should anything happen to the physical copy (its why I handed the 2 DHSS books I got with REV straight to Zel, to get them digitised ASAP)

(especially as the ICR have not done anything with Stuarts old materials still sadly)

plus id love to have a read through the entire catalog  

[egg]

Did you see this on Microcar world Dez? The Krause Piccolo Trumpf.....the German answer to invalid carriages, looks a very similar style of solution to UK models. It's even blue. I wonder who copied who

https://oldbike.eu/1960-krause-piccolo-trumpf/?fbclid=IwAR0pRXAFpOb1qAzfnvUaRSNT-5KHO_wrWIGkzd5q4Z1wELx7M1lygFuNNUQ

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Did you see this on Microcar world Dez? The Krause Piccolo Trumpf.....the German answer to invalid carriages, looks a very similar style of solution to UK models. It's even blue. I wonder who copied who

https://oldbike.eu/1960-krause-piccolo-trumpf/?fbclid=IwAR0pRXAFpOb1qAzfnvUaRSNT-5KHO_wrWIGkzd5q4Z1wELx7M1lygFuNNUQ

hah cool  

I have to say I prefer the british version! 

 

[LightBulbFun]

I have been doing a little bit of research into the actual Invalid carriages (the ones that are under 254Kg so are classed as invalid carriages)

 

and one of the things I have wondered is, on their V5 (or well VE60 as it would been back then!) where they "invalid vehicle" or "invalid carriage"

it looks like at least today they are down as "invalid vehicle" on the V5 like a Model 70 is

as seen on USL568  and CJN446 for example 

 

although I do wonder if back in the 1940s/50s if they were down as "invalid carriage" and then overtime that got change to invalid vehicle as "the system" was updated (its said that in the 1980s the original invalid carriage specification was "retired" and I also know of a 1930s Tax disk that says "invalid carriage" on it so that may be something)

 

as a side note I came across this Stanley Argson, which is clearly a re-registration jobby, but while most of the re-registered invalid vehicles are down as "tricycle" (because I imagine the owners didn't know fo the fine details when re-registering them)

 

this one does not seem to have a body type!

 

 

but since its "not taxed for on road use" it means I was able to look it up with one of my other websites that normally is only able to pull the details of vehicles if they have been taxed in the last few years (hence why I could not look up that other vehicle that comes back with no body type on this web site)

 

where it comes back as "NOT CODABLE" whatever that means!

[LightBulbFun]

heres a little something that I was shared, which I think @plasticvandan will find most enjoyable 

(I know I did ) 

http://www.invalidcarriageregister.org/3d

side note the ICR facebook page is back, and now that Simon knows what im on about now, hopefully we can avoid it imploading again! 

https://www.facebook.com/invalidcarriageregister