invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[SiC]

Can't be bothered to read back on this thread, but did you see this program:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/great-british-car-journeys/on-demand/70031-001

About midway through the episode there is a short section on Invalid Cars. 

[LightBulbFun]

28 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Congratulations on starting your learner journey, Dez.  I remember being a ball of nerves when I started, too.  It gets much, much easier.

Thanks yeah I been have told it gets easier, I look forward to it getting easier!

if nothing else just for the sake of my back and other muscles!, the first lesson was "fine" pain wise during the lesson

but afterwards I was in a lot of unexpected pain, but I suspect it was because I was very nervous, and when I get nervous it causes my muscles to tense up even more which means pain lots of pain!

so yeah hopefully it does get more relaxing LOL

(its as @Zelandeth predicted and hence why I have decided to go with just 2 a week, and then in time when things get more relaxing I want to increase that)

speaking of, next lesson tomorrow at 1PM! fun times ahead  

 

26 minutes ago, SiC said:

Can't be bothered to read back, but did you see this program:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/great-british-car-journeys/on-demand/70031-001

About midway through the episode there is a short section on Invalid Cars. 

ah yes, Thanks for the tip off

I have indeed seen it, its with Simon of the ICR and his collection of vehicles

 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Learning to relax when you're driving is as much as learning to drive as anything else.  When you can finally relax it means that you're able to stop driving consciously.  It goes from 'turn the wheel, relax accelerator, depress clutch, change gear, bring clutch up, add accelerator, straighten wheel', into 'go around that corner'.  Then eventually 'drive to shops'.  Your brain only switches on when it needs to.

When you get there, all will be good!  Sounds like you're going to do fine.

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Learning to relax when you're driving is as much as learning to drive as anything else.  When you can finally relax it means that you're able to stop driving consciously.  It goes from 'turn the wheel, relax accelerator, depress clutch, change gear, bring clutch up, add accelerator, straighten wheel', into 'go around that corner'.  Then eventually 'drive to shops'.  Your brain only switches on when it needs to.

When you get there, all will be good!  Sounds like you're going to do fine.

yes its very much like that for me at the moment! you described it pretty well!

(as well as remembering to check the mirrors and indicate during all of the above!)

rather aptly this was shared in the microcar facebook group im part of (for the bubble car featured in it)

im pretty sure I have seen it before as I watched quite a few "look at life" episodes but its very interesting to see now im learning to drive myself  (and some hot sideways Pre war RT action too FTW)

its very interesting to see what things and techniques are still taught the same today!

on a related note, my driving instructor has been teaching for a good few decades now, and it was a bit amusing when he said "dont press the accelerator with the engine not running or you will flood the engine"

im pretty sure thats only a thing with carbureted engines right?

[Yoss]

Great video. Liked the bit the end obviously. 'Some of the safest vehicles in the world are London buses'. Though it's always good to see buses on the Chiswick skid pan it's also a bit depressing to see all the great facilities we've lost.

And the last line, 'and always remember, the other fellow may not be sober - or even sane'. Wierd. 

[Yoss]

Oh, and the bit about flooding the engine. I would have thought the same. The fuel injection on most modern cars won't do anything with the ignition off because the ecu can't tell it to.  Also I've always been told to press the accelerator one or two times before starting a carburettored engine to prime the system a bit. Seems to work on my cars (I have three carbs between two cars), certainly a couple of squirts isn't enough to flood them. 

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Oh, and the bit about flooding the engine. I would have thought the same. The fuel injection on most modern cars won't do anything with the ignition off because the ecu can't tell it to.  Also I've always been told to press the accelerator one or two times before starting a carburettored engine to prime the system a bit. Seems to work on my cars (I have three carbs between two cars), certainly a couple of squirts isn't enough to flood them. 

indeed when starting the invacar after she has been sat for a few weeks iv also got into the habit of giving it a couple twists before and during starting depending on how well things are going!

plus choke because old  

(of course I showed the instructor REV, it was funny because I was describing it, and he understood what I was describing, but did not remember anything such, then I showed him a picture when we stopped and he did the ol "oohh yeah I remember those!" thing when you show someone a bit of once common street furniture that vanished years ago and they never realised such  ) 

[Zelandeth]

Some Fords (certainly up to and including both Fusions we had on 03 and 56 plates) won't start if you've got your foot on the throttle...

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Zelandeth said:

Some Fords (certainly up to and including both Fusions we had on 03 and 56 plates) won't start if you've got your foot on the throttle...

that reminds me, the modern VAG group car im learning in 

has some stop start engine and hill assist hand brake nonsense

its not got in the way of things so far, but i'm a little weary (especially after reading about your adventure in a stop start car!)

tho I can see the hill assist thing being helpful during the test itself so I don't roll backwards

[somewhatfoolish]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed when starting the invacar after she has been sat for a few weeks iv also got into the habit of giving it a couple twists before and during starting depending on how well things are going!

This only has any effect if the carb has an accelerator pump that literally squirts fuel into the venturi; many don't. Obviously if it does then it richens the starting mixture.

[1970mgb]

I still hear the "don't pump the gas because it will flood" get tossed around a lot. As said, it's a non-issue with fuel injection.

In addition, two of the three cars I own are carbureted. On my carbureted vehicles, you can sit and mash the accelerator all day and all you'd accomplish is wearing your leg out. All pushing the accelerator does on an SU carb is just open the throttle plates, much as what happens on a fuel injected car with a throttle cable, If you get even more modern and go to drive-by-wire throttles, the throttle plate won't even open if the key is off.

I did piddle around a bit at one time in my brother-in-law's 80s Chevy 1500. It had a small block 305 with a Rochester Quadrajet. If it was a little bit cold out and the engine was cold, mashing the accelerator once or twice would usually have it starting as soon as you touched the key thanks to the accelerator pump spraying gas into the intake. Do the same with the engine hot, or on a hot day, and starting could be fun-although holding(not pumping) the pedal on to the floor while cranking would usually clear it. Of course, SUs, or really any type of carb, can also heat soak and percolate(and consequently flood)-a situation where flooring the accelerator when cranking is the best way to get them to start.

[Jikovron]

These days cars are probably wise to pumping the accelerator to get it going but earlier efi cars will cycle the injectors exactly like a accel pump if the ignition is on and also when cranking as an uncle found out when he flooded his mk3 punto trying to get it going like it was still 1988.

[LightBulbFun]

so had my second lesson today!

I think it went well, tho I was still a ball of nerves as @GrumpiusMaximus puts it  

 

today we did turning right as well as turning left from last time, and also the whole turning into minor roads from major roads and turning into major roads from minor roads thing

my driving instructor says, that the main thing is Im taking too long when it comes to junctions

in that id pull up, and then take too long figuring out when to go, when the coast has been clear for a while, he says when its clear just go for it, (or it was something along those lines) its not that im stopping in the middle of the road, its just I take too long to decide "ok its clear driving out now..."

I just keep second guessing myself about is it safe to pull out etc! plus im still getting used to the whole clutch thing at same time as learning the road rules etc so its a lot to take in

(side note turning right is much more complicated then it looks!)

and there's also the fact im looking ahead too much at junctions when I should be looking left and right more

but otherwise I think im doing good!

next lesson is booked for next monday (id of like to have done it on friday, and while he technically had a slot open then, it was in rush hour which he does not want for me, so Monday it is, ill speak to him next time about reserving a larger block in his diary if possible)

 

heres a picture of the car for @Six-cylinder and for my own records  its not a VAG group car my bad, im not very good at moderns! (and as mentioned I was a bit preoccupied last time)

technically its not the same car I drove last time, but that one was also a Pug 308, just a year older, this one only has 270 something miles on the clock! I happened to show up right when he was getting a new car

(I also need to not free wheel so much when coming to a stop at junctions etc, it just feels like im going to stall if I dont clutch in when breaking to coming to a stop, I just have to know when to clutch in at the last minute so I dont stall but dont free wheel too much!)

[Outrun9430]

19 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

today we did turning right as well as turning left, from last time and also the whole turning into minor roads from major roads and turning into major roads from minor roads thing

my driving instructor says, that the main thing is Im taking too long when it comes to junctions

in that id pull up, and then take too long figuring out when to go, when the coast has been clear for a while, he says when its clear just go for it, (or it was something along those lines) its not that im stopping in the middle of the road, its just I take too long to decide "ok its clear driving out now..."

I just keep second guessing myself about is it safe to pull out etc! plus im still getting used to the whole clutch thing at same time as learning the road rules etc so its a lot to take in

(side noe turning right is much more complicated then it looks!)

and there's also the fact im looking ahead too much at junctions when I should be looking left and right more

 

Here's an effective turning strategy for you so that you don't take too long to go.

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Gamer9430 said:

 

Here's an effective turning strategy for you so that you don't take too long to go.

sounds about right for London!

the area im currently learning in, is a hot spot for other learners too etc (as its a fairly quiet square but with large open roads)

which adds to the "fun" of it all, we had one person who refused to indicate, and another who pulled out of a junction while I was going through it/had the right of way

 

theres a grey morris minor that lives there which pleasingly has an MOT despite being MOT exempt now  

[Mrs6C]

Hey, it's only your second time out on the public highway! Take as long as you feel is comfortable for you to do your manouvres and focus on doing them safely. You'll get more efficient at it as you progress through the course of your lessons and get into the swing of driving. Better to be slow and sure than pull out in front of someone because you feel the pressure is on. Your instructor should know this. You can learn how to pass the test later in your lessons.

After several hours of experience you will find you feel much more at ease and things will become much more natural to do.

 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Hey, it's only your second time out on the public highway! Take as long as you feel is comfortable for you to do your manouvres and focus on doing them safely. You'll get more efficient at it as you progress through the course of your lessons and get into the swing of driving. Better to be slow and sure than pull out in front of someone because you feel the pressure is on. Your instructor should know this. You can learn how to pass the test later in your lessons.

After several hours of experience you will find you feel much more at ease and things will become much more natural to do.

 

yeah indeed, maybe im just being a bit too hard on myself or such!

I know I was apologizing a lot when I messed up certain maneuvers etc, even tho its not something I have to get right persay! LOL

(its driving lessons not driving test, at least not yet!)

[LightBulbFun]

Oh forgot to add

 I was told that if you free wheel too much its a fail on your driving test since it removes some control over the car (no engine braking) 

but im curious, what would happen then if you showed up in a 2 Stroke Saab or a Trabant for your driving test? LOL

[Mrs6C]

Have you got RAR88R on your list?

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Supporters+-+Disabled+Supporters

A quick internet search of "invalid carriages at football matches" turns up a whole selection of interesting old photos!

[egg]

After your test you can freewheel all you like (bad habit of mine)!

(There's a time and place)

[666jjp]

'the area im currently learning in, is a hot spot for other learners too etc (as its a fairly quiet square but with large open roads)

which adds to the "fun" of it all, we had one person who refused to indicate, and another who pulled out of a junction while I was going through it/had the right of way'

 

you will probably find that these are routes that are used on test's so the instructors take you on them to familiarise yourself with route

 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

It's always good to know the local routes as much as possible.  Down in Folkestone, there's a whole part of the town that's called 'Learner Land' by the locals...

[LightBulbFun]

36 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Have you got RAR88R on your list?

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Supporters+-+Disabled+Supporters

A quick internet search of "invalid carriages at football matches" turns up a whole selection of interesting old photos!

Oh very cool find!

id seen the first 2 pictures before, but not the 2 with RAR88R  

sadly its not thought to be a survivor, but I am aware of the RAR-R block, (RAR5R to RAR104R)

from "RAR49R" which is actually LNO970P on false plates! (thankfully since corrected)

 

funnily enough the RAR-R block is the last Rxx-R block despite alphabetically being the first

although the Invacar blocks do go up alphabetically, for someone reason the Post 1974 location suffix additions do not seem to fit in alphabetically

for example the Rxx-R blocks goes as follows

REV375R-REV475R (101 big because of REV451R being private example)

RPU756R-RPU855R

RVW644R-RVW744R (and same here or non invacar in the block somewhere! I plan to go through this block again when I have a working registration to VIN number tool again)

and finally

RAR5R-RAR104R

see how it goes up alphabetically until you get to RAR-R

sadly I have not figured out yet why the Post 1974 additions to Essex of HJ JN and AR do not go up alphabetically in Invacar blocks like the rest EV, HK, NO, OO, PU, TW, VW, VX, WC. do

(or if there is another pattern to it) 

 

 

35 minutes ago, egg said:

After your test you can freewheel all you like (bad habit of mine)!

(There's a time and place)

haha  doing a bit of quick googling shows that if you free wheel a little pulling up to a junction or such its not an instant fail maybe a couple minors, its only a fail if you it excessively or put the gear lever into neutral (which im not doing!)

but I do plan on trying to reduce my free wheeling as much as possible 

[egg]

I passed first time.....but with the most minors you can have without failing...!

[JJ0063]

Haven’t read this thread for a while but have you seen the latest Influx post? 
 

https://www.influx.co.uk/cars/invalid-trikes/

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, JJ0063 said:

Haven’t read this thread for a while but have you seen the latest Influx post? 
 

https://www.influx.co.uk/cars/invalid-trikes/

ah very cool I have not seen that post before, thanks for the tip off  

props to whoever wrote its pretty damn well done, much better then most of the stuff you read on the internet about invalid vehicles!

 

but sadly there's still a few holes!,

the villiers machines where rear wheel drive, not front wheel drive (I suspect they are thinking of the Bond Mini car which was Front wheel drive), but like a bond Mini car, they are also single wheel drive, despite the 2 rear wheels!

and like a Model 70, the villiers machine could also theoretically do top speed in reverse via the fact in a Villiers machine to reverse, you simple ran the engine backwards because 2 stroke  this meant you could select all 4 gears in reverse!

from what I understand (and hope to find out for myself in time!) a Model 70 will cruise and handle happily at 60-70Mph if in good fettle and especially if on 10 inch wheels, as TPA demonstrates! and Im pretty sure a 493cc Model 70 can do 82Mph, so who knows what a 650cc one would top out at! only 1 or MAYBE 2 (depending on if Derry preston cobs upgrade was actually finished) Model 70's were built with 650cc engines the rest had 493cc engines (I have had someone I trust tell me they had 78 Mph showing on the speedo of their 493cc powered Model 70!)

a LOT of the criticisms you hear about invalid vehicles, are actually of the Villers machines, sadly most people don't know/see the different Models, so the Model 70 gets unfairly tarred with the same brush

(you will hear someone talk about their experience of an invalid vehicle and they will say "it rolled over onto its only door" so clearly not a Model 70 or something such, and yet the person/whatever doing the interview will show a picture of a Model 70 or such!)

AC went all out when designing and building the Model 70 as such its not like any other previous Invalid vehicle at all, but sadly few people realise that

and finally you DO NOT have to re-register or change anything with an invalid vehicle, all you need to do is Get the V5 change the Tax class from disabled to Historic and your off to the races  (and if you are disabled you don't even have to change the tax class if you dont want to!)

its a very common misconception that you have to "re-register" them as Tricycles, sadly I suspect will be battling with this one for a long time since @dollywobbler mentioned incorrectly that you have to re-register them as trikes, a few times in various videos of his

I'd like someday to make a "invacar fact check" or "Corrections" video with him someday, clarifying things and debunking all the rumors and miss information that is out there about them

oh and there was also the Electric Tippen Delta which continued in production* until 1976, so not all invalid vehicles from 1971 where Steyr puch powered

(*Electric tippen Deltas after 1970 or so where actually older petrol ones converted to electric and refurbished, making them one of the first if not the first case of mass conversion of a Petrol vehicle to electric!)

(there was also a small overlap of Invacar Mk12 Production and AC Model 70 production from the end of July 1971 to the start of November 1971 or so) 

and finally to be pedantic, technically the colour was not fully standardized on the light blue/green that Model 70s etc are, in that the the Model 57 and 64 continued in their darker blue right until the end of production in 1971 or so

 

and theres a few other things but its probably best I not ramble on anymore! LOL

[LightBulbFun]

so Stuart has "informed me" of a couple surviving Mk12's he knows the chassis numbers of but not the Reg numbers of

now these 2 Mk12's sit between LVX293J and PEV442K, the latest known Invacar Mk12 chassis numbers with registration numbers

(so blocks  LVX201J-LVX300J and PEV401K-PEV500K)

meaning that the 2 invacars should be new enough that at least a few examples from the block they sit in, should hopefully show up on the DVLA checker still  

which means I can hunt for their registration numbers the same way I do for Model 70 blocks

 

so I know they are between LVX-J and PEV-K

so I know their registration numbers will start with L M N or O 

I know it wont start with P since I know EV is the first Essex marker so there can't be any Pxx-K cars before PEV-K

now I have just gone through LWC-J and MEV-J with nothing turning up (although suspiciously there is a gap between LWC101J to LWC201J where nothing turns up)

but going through MHK-J produces my first result  looks like the block is from MHK801J to MHK900J

ill go through the rest of the MHK-J block to see which still show up on the DVLA

and then ill continue onwards through Mxx-J Nxx-J etc etc

although at some point there will be a suffix change from J to K, im hoping by observing the date of first registrations ill know when to switch to K

like I sort of did in reverse when finding the J Reg Model 70's  

and then once I have gone through all the regs and got all the Invacar Mk12 registrations that show up on the DVLA still, ill pass them to my HPI man and see what chassis numbers each reg block covers, so then I can hopefully figure out the registration numbers of the 2 Unknown Mk12's  

[LightBulbFun]

going up!, MHK825J and MHJ882J are the only ones of the MHK-J block to still even show up on the DVLA,

 

 

which is one of the things that makes finding Mk12 or any other Pre Model 70 invalid vehicle blocks hard then finding Model 70 blocks

since so few still show up on the DVLA it can take a lot of searching 1 by 1 until you find one

and just in general fewer vehicles from the time period show up on the DVLA so you have the fun of figuring out what is just a segment of random cars that dont show up on the DVLA anymore or is actually a block of some kind!

 

anywho onto MNO-J! (hah!)

[Christine]

On 10/21/2019 at 8:08 PM, egg said:

After your test you can freewheel all you like (bad habit of mine)!

(There's a time and place)

And power shifts...and j turns...:-). But not in the blue one

[LightBulbFun]

nothing in MNO-J or MOO-J (nor were there any Invacar block sized holes in those reg series)

but MPU-J turned up a result, MPU301J to MPU400J  out of that block only MPU344J actually shows up on the DVLA!