Project Domes shonky autos - Car that lived by the sea in Scotland in rust shocker*

[big_al_granvia]

i would be tempted to put the thing on a flatbed and get it to a tame mechanic with a ramp, it least having it 6' in the air meas better access oppose to lying on your back under it. you will probably want to replace the fuel pipes so cut the bloody things off and put new unions on. dropping the subframe will be a cuntasawrus of a job... give my mate ali mcmillan a shout for advice, he is a jag specialist and cracking engineer as is his sidekick scott tollan. those guys have done more jags than i have had kebabs

[Saabnut]

Be aware - if it is the same as my X308 (and it looks and sounds the same) there is not enough free length on the pipes to remove the tank. It MAY be possible to get enough movement on the tank to get the pump out BUT the fuel pipes tend to snap as they go brittle with age. A new set will not see much change out of a grand, and secondhand are not an option 'cause they always snap on removal. I plan on the angle grinder through the parcel shelf if/when I get some enthusiasm for it.

[somewhatfoolish]

IIRC @Broadsword has done the 'cut a hole in the parcel shelf' thing to replace the in-tank pump, albeit on an X306.

[dome]

11 hours ago, Saabnut said:

Be aware - if it is the same as my X308 (and it looks and sounds the same) there is not enough free length on the pipes to remove the tank. It MAY be possible to get enough movement on the tank to get the pump out BUT the fuel pipes tend to snap as they go brittle with age. A new set will not see much change out of a grand, and secondhand are not an option 'cause they always snap on removal. I plan on the angle grinder through the parcel shelf if/when I get some enthusiasm for it.

From more reading I think getting the tank out with the lines attached isn't going to happen. I'm going to try cutting a slot in a socket to fit over the union to turn it and hopefully free it off. 

Angle grinder through the parcel shelf sounds brutal but it might be the only option!

Oh and in more mundane car news the Accords rear wheel was hot to the touch on getting home last night-sticky caliper there then!

 

[SiC]

Everytime I've read about this job on these and newer ones, someone has cut a hole above the top and made an access hatch. 

[cort16]

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

I think this picture is from an XK8 but you get the idea. Great bit of design.

 

 

[SiC]

Just now, cort16 said:

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

Reading up on how to change the starter motor or clutch on your Mégane 225 again? ?

[Sir Snipes]

3 minutes ago, cort16 said:

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

I think this picture is from an XK8 but you get the idea. Great bit of design.

 

 

Almost looks like that oval hole was there for fuel pump access..... 

[cort16]

7 minutes ago, SiC said:

Reading up on how to change the starter motor or clutch on your Mégane 225 again? ?

Cut a big hole in the bonnet ?

 

[cort16]

5 minutes ago, Sir Snipes said:

Almost looks like that oval hole was there for fuel pump access..... 

It’s the speaker I think . So close .

not sure I could trust myself to cut a hole that neat.

[Broadsword]

The XJ40 looks surprisingly solid, and the Jaguar Sport steering wheel is a bonus. Cutting an access hole above the fuel tank sounds brutal but you won’t hurt anything if careful. On these cars at this age I don’t think it is worth risking trying to get the tank out for fear of damaging the fuel lines (or tank). I made a YouTube video on how I changed the fuel pump on an X306 from above (try this at your own risk of course!)

 

[dome]

 

2 hours ago, Broadsword said:

The XJ40 looks surprisingly solid, and the Jaguar Sport steering wheel is a bonus. Cutting an access hole above the fuel tank sounds brutal but you won’t hurt anything if careful. On these cars at this age I don’t think it is worth risking trying to get the tank out for fear of damaging the fuel lines (or tank). I made a YouTube video on how I changed the fuel pump on an X306 from above (try this at your own risk of course!)

 

Dremel discs ordered! 

[Broadsword]

53 minutes ago, dome said:

 

Dremel discs ordered! 

Don’t forget to look also at the rubber fuel pipe in the tank going into the pump. For the sake of £5 of fuel hose from Halfords I would replace that too. On the car in the video it was not the pump that failed, but the rubber hose going into it had split. It fooled many people into thinking it has a misfire when there was in fact fuel starvation.

[Zelandeth]

Welcome to the joys of working on Jaguars.  They have a special talent for making never the simplest jobs an utter pig because someone put something in the way.

Definitely replace the in tank line while you're in there...just don't use fuel hose from Halfords unless you want to be doing it again in six months.  Marine grade fuel hose is your friend.

Knowing how expensive replacement lines are, is there any particular reason the lines couldn't just be remade using off the shelf fittings and appropriately rated metal or flexible pipe?  Or do they have some obnoxious proprietary fittings which make that difficult?

[dome]

And good old euro car parts came up trumps* with the pads for the Accord ?

Sliders were fine so I lubed up the piston and stuck it back together for the meantime til I can get the correct pads.

[dome]

Baws, turns out it was my fault. I ordered the pads while still in bed half asleep and didn't realize I'd picked the Jazzs reg number on the euro autofill instead of the Accord. Bollocks!

[dome]

Well this turned up today so I guess I'd better crack on getting the old one out..

Picking up some Dremel discs after work then let's see if I can get this pump out. Also picked up a new correct fuel filter for it.

Good job I bought a new battery for it...

And, slightly ahead of myself but thanks to @cort16 and his new venture I have a tax disc ready for it when it finally hits the road. Tax disc holder isn't quite period correct I don't think but it'll do for now

Does anyone have replacement fuel hose clips? @Broadsword perhaps? One of them pinged off never to be seen again. If not I'll find something to use to hold it in. Not that it's likely to fall out but it's not a risk I'm willing to take!

[Broadsword]

Sorry I don't have those clips, mainly because I know to avoid trying to touch them. You might try the Jag X300 Facebook group for advice on that matter. Another good source is Jaguar Classic Parts by Jaguar themselves. Very good for tracking down part numbers.

[dome]

So, tonight I went back round to the garage, Dremel in hand and with a fresh supply of cutting discs. I know fine well how quickly it gets through these when you try and cut metal with it.

I quickly got the back seats and parcel shelf out so it looked like this.

After a bit of umming and ahing I marked up with masking tape where I wanted to cut and set about it.

8,657 Dremel discs later(approximately) and here we are.

Wierd ghostly shit going in with that pic there.

Retaining ring off and hoses removed allowed me to get the top part of the pump off. The bottom part stayed put and seemed quite attached.

At this point I looked at the Haynes manual (I know, i know.)

I'll skip ahead to the removed pump for descriptive purposes

The rubber cross shaped part is supposed to stay attached to the tabs on the bottom of the tank and the pump unit is supposed to twist free. Except, of course it didn't. I had to remove the whole thing as one which involved turning it upside down in the tank and squeezing it out through a hole it was never designed to fit out. Joyous.

Once I had it out I realized the problem-a zip tie holding the rubber part firmly onto the pump. Thanks Jaguar!

You can imagine how much fun this all was, especially as there's still a gallon or so of 20 year old petrol in the tank!

Next up, open up the plastic casing of the pump units somehow without breaking 20 year old plastic tabs? Then I can fit the new pump and rubber hose.

The tank was remarkably clean inside, I'll drain it out and have a new fuel filter here for it. Running at the weekend? Stay tuned!

[cort16]

good work!

[straightSix]

This guy is definitely worth contacting if you need any spare parts: https://blackcherryjaguar.com/

There are a ridiculous amount of small changes they made over the years with parts so can be a bit difficult getting the right one

[dome]

Cheeky wee lunchbreak update.

Managed to prise the top off the fuel pump housing without breaking anything to reveal the dead pump.

Old Vs new pump

Nastiness inside the housing. I've got it soaking in petrol here, the black stuff is nasty and tough to remove

Will leave that to soak for a while and will then clean it up before it goes back together.

Also started on polishing up the grill which had been removed, will get that finished off soon.

Tomorrow the plan is to stick it back together and see if it'll start?

[SiC]

does Carb cleaner to remove the black gunk? Looks that type of stuff that is stuck in carbs. 

[dome]

13 minutes ago, SiC said:

does Carb cleaner to remove the black gunk? Looks that type of stuff that is stuck in carbs. 

I don't have such a thing, I'm too modern for that  I tried brake cleaner which didn't seem to do much though.

It does scrape off-it's more like goo for want of a better term. Will leave it soaking in petrol for a while and see how it goes.

[SiC]

Carb cleaner is very effective with modern throttle bodies to be fair! It definitely shifts the carbon deposits and crap inside them much better than brake cleaner.

A cheap toothbrush could be handy here too.

[dome]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Carb cleaner is very effective with modern throttle bodies to be fair! It definitely shifts the carbon deposits and crap inside them much better than brake cleaner.

A cheap toothbrush could be handy here too.

I'll pick some up when I get new fuel hose-there's 2 fuel lines inside the tank which I'll replace when i'm at it. 

[dome]

So, I made some more progress* on this yesterday

Fuel canister cleaned out-compare and contrast to the pic in my earlier post.

The new pump was fitted

And it was carefully pressed back together.

12v applied confirmed it was buzzing away happily.

Back to the car yesterday and the first thing was to drain out the old fuel. I used a little 12v Aldi/Lidl pump. 

Probably not ideal for moving petrol but it did the job fine. I still think they're shit for moving oil around, they're to slow for that.

H&S inspectors look away now...

 Once emptied the tank was cleaned out. It was in pretty good condition thankfully.

In this pic I've refitted the rubber grommet that the pump housing locates into and fitted two new rubber hoses. One takes feed from the top of the pump to the outlets on the bottom of the tank and  the other is the return.

Don't worry, I got the bit of glove out before i put it together,

I then dropped the canister into the tank and fitted the top cap. This was a pain-it took ages to get the rubber gasket lined up and then the lock ring could be fitted. There's a connector on the top of the pump unit that connects here limiting movement of it so it's a faff. No pics though so you'll have to take my word for it.

Whilst this was going on I also dropped the oil and changed the filter-I didn't fancy starting it on 20 year old oil. To be fair it came out looking not bad at all.

With this back together I connected all the fittings and tank straps.

Next up, short out the fuel pump relay and make sure the pump runs. 

It didn't, but did give a big spark.

Fuck.

First thing was to check the wiring to the tank. The fuel pump a wire runs from the top of the tank to the bottom corner of the boot where there's a connector. There's a heatshrunk capacitor/resistor or something near the top of the tank on this cable-this was red hot. As a temporary* measure this was chopped out and bypassed. I believe it might be to do with signal suppression from the fuel pump. I'll look into it further and will replace it in due course if necessary. 

I now checked the fuel pump by applying 12v direct to it-it buzzed away happily. The owner was under the bonnet with the fuel line still detached and reported fuel coming out into my container but not under much pressure? I'm not sure how much pressure there should be to be honest...

There's power at the relay under the bonnet but nothing is getting to the pump connector in the boot-I suspect a broken wire somewhere.

I was running out of time now for the day so to boost morale I thought I'd try and start it by applying 12v to the pump while cranking it over. Maybe it would fire? Spoiler alert-it didn't.

However, after I remembered to connect the coil which I'd removed to build up oil pressure it did sound like it was trying to fire. Just didn't quite manage it

There also seemed to be pressure building up in the tank when we cranked it over. Possible issue with a breather?

Tail between my legs i packed up and left it for the day.

Plan of attack

1. Check continuity between the fuel pump relay and connector in the boot. I'll need to run a new cable no doubt.

2. Change the fuel filter-this may be why there was low pressure at the engine end. I did blow through the pipes from the engine bay to the tank and it didn't seem blocked. I didn't have the required 16mm spanner with me though.

3. Take a plug or two out and see if they're wet-that'll show if the injectors are firing or not.

Any opinions/pointers welcome! Who'd have thought it would be so difficult to start after 20 years!

 

[Rocket88]

Disconnect fuel line relay, fire some sniff into the air intake, see if it’ll fire? 

[Broadsword]

Does the rev counter move when the engine is turning over? Did you replace the fuel filter?

You just have to be systematic I think at this point diagnosing fuel, air and spark. New spark plugs are probably in order anyway.

[dome]

Will check the rev counter today. Definitely a big fat spark though and I've fitted new plugs. 

Are you thinking crank sensor?

Fuel filter not replaced yet, that's today's job along with checking continuity on the fuel pump wiring