Dollywobbler's Dreadful Dyane - Back on the road

[Tickman]

Free engine worth a try if it is not too much bother putting in.

it is the old 'how much time' / 'can I be bothered' ratio.

It is usually easier to close the garage door!

[DeeJay]

If you're skint try cheapest option first.

[xtriple]

Bung the old motor in there as a first call, can't be to difficult to swap an engine in one of those... can it?

[dollywobbler]

Indeed not, especially when there's only half the engine left anyway. Carb, fuel lines and electrics already disconnected to get this far, so it's just six bolts and give it a tug. Not sure what I'll be tugging on though as I usually lift the engine out by the manifold...

[forddeliveryboy]

That would be a little churlish given that my mate makes the conversion kits. I'm a firm believer that power corrupts though. As much fun as they are, I just like the original engine more.

 

Know what you mean, the Citroën engines are superb when right. Mine does too, although I also know Pete...

 

Are those marks deep scuffs/scratches? I've known them to be dealt with effectively with honing using coarser stones than normal, followed by fine ones, with a slightly extended bedding in time but superb results. They could be as a result of overheating due to crud stuck in the fins, although it's usually where the bores are at their thinnest. If you're going to chuck the old pistons/barrels/rings, chuck them in the direction of someone who will make good use of them!

 

Not really the time of year for engine rebuilds unless you've a warm and dry workshop - just watch for probs with the shorter splines issue if you mate a more modern clutch with the Dyane box input shaft.

[richardmorris]

Definitely a bit scored. Not seen one that bad myself. But I've led a sheltered life!

 

Whip the heads off the old engine and have a look. It will only take minutes.

 

In my experience old engines of unknown provenance always need the heads doing. So you may as well look before fitting.

[dollywobbler]

Aye. You may recall that when I got it, there was carrier bag and just general mank clogging the fins AND it was too advanced. Great combo! Offside barrel is still nice and smooth.

 

May have had a bit of a result as a racer has said he has good pistons and barrels that I can have. Correct 9.0 compression ratio too. And he happens to be coming vaguely near next weekend! I've never changed pistons before, so this'll be something new. Trying to recall how I eventually convinced the rings to compress last time I had (accidentally!) a barrel off. I think I literally did just squeeze them with my fingers having tried and failed to make my own ring compressor (that's the engine that has been running very merrily in the 2CV for the past five years).

[Eddie Honda]

Bean can, cut a strip, wrap round rings, hold ends with pliers...

[jonathan_dyane]

Shit.

 

My Dyane's engine has a better rep for scoring than I do. Suggests a ring issue.

 

So, do I order up new barrels and pistons (not that I'll be able to afford it this month and probably not next month either) or do I drag out the forgotten spare engine from the back of my garage? It came with the free green 2CV a while back and probably hasn't run for the best part of a decade or more. It does turn though...

It's hard to see from the photo but that might just hone out.

 

More worrying is the appearance of the piston which is at best heavily covered in carbon and at worst melted. Further investigation definately needed because you have at least one broken ring although judging by the level of carbon I wouldn't be surprised if they all are.

[jonathan_dyane]

PS, I've always found it easiest to just compress the rings with my fingers while I slip the barrel on rather than mess around with ring compressors; lots of oil is your friend.

[dollywobbler]

Pulled the nearside barrel off. YUCK!

 

Thankfully, the offside one seems MUCH cleaner. I've not removed the barrel that side as there are no score marks and all seems well.

 

The rings on the nearside still seem ok but clearly there is an issue this side. Hopefully I'll collect a new barrel and piston next weekend. I'd far rather get this engine healthy than drop in a completely unknown lump that hasn't run for years. Mind you, the 'spare' engine currently in the 2CV sat in a shed for a decade, and I then just plonked it in with nothing more than a bit of oil down the plug holes. 

[jonathan_dyane]

Better than I thought it might look! Looks like the rings are unbroken (which isn't to say that they're not knackered); I wonder whether it has nipped up due to overheating through the pinking?

 

I wouldn't recommend fitting a single piston and barrel; they are matched pairs.

[dollywobbler]

Meh. They're hardly matched at the moment are they? The source I'm getting them from doesn't necessarily keep them matched anyway.

 

I reckon you're right though. Probably overheated (the fins when I got it this side were COMPLETELY covered in plastic bag). Not sure it was pinking related - that was just another problem. But what is clear now is that the blow-by was over-pressurising the crankcase, which is why oil has been forced out EVERYWHERE. Incredible that this little engine has covered over 1000 miles in this state. Mostly at high speed!

[alf892]

Clean up and reassemble.......give the ring a bit of wet and dry action too.

 

It's not a fekkin space ship after all.

 

Very easy to be too fussy when you strip a running engine.....

[dollywobbler]

On the other hand, now the engine is in bits, it would seem silly not to fix it. I've enjoyed ASTOUNDING reliability with aircooled Citroens over the years. Why would I put an engine back together knowing there's an issue that could cause it to go bang?

[alf892]

On the other hand, now the engine is in bits, it would seem silly not to fix it. I've enjoyed ASTOUNDING reliability with aircooled Citroens over the years. Why would I put an engine back together knowing there's an issue that could cause it to go bang?

Didn't mean don't fix........just that it is easy to go overboard with new when very often a proper clean and dress up will restore to good order.

 

From the pics of the barrel a go over with a pebble hone would do the job.

[dollywobbler]

I still haven't got any further with replacing the barrels and pistons, though I hope to pick up a set on Friday all being well. Found myself with a few minutes free today though, so got out the engine degreaser and commenced battle! Due to a very long-term oil leak, the engine is properly disgraceful. Or rather, it was. I've cleaned it so much I can see the engine number now!

 

I made a start on the cowlings too, but after spray Gunk, then Jizer with a brush and lots and lots of rinsing, the cowlings are still disgusting. A few more goes are going to be needed. With luck, I may have this running again next week. The next plan is then to give the suspension a going over and replace the outer driveshafts to get rid of CV joint clonk. You can't replace just the CV joint it seems.

[dollywobbler]

Not sure why I diverted to the News 24 thread. Let's recap.

 

I eventually managed to get my hands on some barrels and pistons. Properly nice pistons too, as used in a race car.Here's my dreadful garage, with a dreadful Dyane that at this stage has one new barrel and piston fitted.

 

By the close of play yesterday, both sides were done.

 

I lapped the heads in this evening, to get over the disappointment of the XM failing its MOT. Surely the Citroen gods wouldn't hurl fail at two of my cars? The heads were cleaned up and installed and the valve clearances set. I'd poured a little oil down the bores as I now needed to turn the engine over by hand to set the clearances.

 

After a pause for dinner, I decided to crack on while the enthusiasm is bubbling away nicely. I started by setting the valve clearances. Refitting the cowling was the next job, because there's nothing more annoying than fitting the manifold, then discovering you failed to fit the cowling first. This was a pain in the arse, as the two bolts that hold this metal cowling to the bottom of the cylinder head didn't want to go in. Either side. You can't see what you're doing, and there's only just room to get your hand in. Frustrating. Got there in the end, and then installed the manifold.

 

The fuel lines have been connected back up, and I've arranged the wiring so she can run.

 

But, I decided 10pm wasn't a great time to start an engine on open headers, not when I actually like my neighbours. I also seem to have lost an HT lead which, remarkably, is the only thing that's gone missing on this job! Hopefully, she'll be running tomorrow.

[dollywobbler]

https://twitter.com/dollywobbler/status/691938964526252032

[mrbenn]

Fucking Nora. Hope you had ear defenders on!

[Asimo]

"Lacking a ring compressor or a suitably large jubilee clip, I'm a bit stuck for now"

 

Nylon cable ties work pretty well as impromptu ring compressors.

[dollywobbler]

"Lacking a ring compressor or a suitably large jubilee clip, I'm a bit stuck for now"

 

Nylon cable ties work pretty well as impromptu ring compressors.

 

Yeah, had thought about it. A local chum offered me a proper one though!

[Six-cylinder]

https://twitter.com/dollywobbler/status/691938964526252032

Only 7 secs, I could have listened to that all afternoon!

[jonathan_dyane]

It's coming together!

 

At the risk of telling something you already know the final cylinder head torquing has to be  done after you fit the manifold to allow the heads to rotate slightly to fit the manifold correctly. If you omitted this it would be well advised to whip the rocker covers off and back the head nuts off the retorque before you put the wings back on otherwise you may soon have a leaking manifold.

[dollywobbler]

Balls. Glad I haven't refitted the bodywork yet then! Incredible to think that the head bolts are only tightened to 25Nm. And the oil feed bolts to far less!

[richardmorris]

I tend to like the heads a bit tighter than that- I can almost to 25 with my fingers!

[dollywobbler]

I trust Ken the master when it comes to numbers. It's been a good five years since I had Elly's engine in bits in a similar way, which is why I was struggling to remember the steps. At least I remembered to refit the cowling before the manifold on. Now that really is annoying!

[twosmoke300]

If 2cv engines are like beetle ones you have a small head torque to allow for a large amount of expansion when it's up to temp

[forddeliveryboy]

Headbolts need retorqueing perhaps 1000 miles after everything has been apart. Remember to open up the valve clearances by the necessary amount if the head is taken up a bit. I slacken all 3 right off before redoing, for reasons I can't remember. What valve clearances do you run, Ian?

 

The German market cars had a little addition to prevent a leaking head to barrel joint from letting combustion gases into the heater air. Can't remember what that was either - most annoying.

[mouseflakes]

Love this photo - looks like some H R Giger creation.