Cheap Common Rail Dervs?

[320touring]

As an additional thread to my Octavia tdi stuff, I've been considering getting a cheap (£350 or less) common rail diesel to try and run on Veg.

 

I'm looking for suggestions re cars that have such lumps- I know vag group from 2003 or there abouts are PD-are they common rail?

 

what about alfas with the JTD etc?

 

open to suggestions for types of car and also links to ones for sale.

 

mechanically they need to be spot on please. not fussed by cosmetically challenged cars-as long as the underpinnings are good

[rainagain]

You can't run a common rail on veg the tolerances are too small. Check out :

 

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/mybbforum/showthread.php?tid=2548

 

You can run them on bio though

[320touring]

You can't run a common rail on veg the tolerances are too small. Check out :

 

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/mybbforum/showthread.php?tid=2548

 

You can run them on bio though

you can try though-and thats my plan:)

 

if its cheap enough I dont mind killing it

[skattrd]

A bloke I recently worked with reckoned he'd ran a common rail Merc on veg for years without issue ... Can't comment on details or truthfulness of his claim, but people say it can be done.

[Cavcraft]

I wouldn't bother, it'll fuck up in no time at all.

[Rusty_Rocket]

My Alfa JTD loved 100% bio (b100). Only problem was, it started to rot a rubbery covering on the fuel return hose coming from the common rail injectors.

I think it would have run on a high percentage of SVO in the summer too..

Apparently you can run into problems purely because of the massive pressure the fuel is subject to in the rail and at point of injection, but I'm too thick to understand exactly what.

The low pressure in tank pump will likely suffer too but they're an issue when running on the expensive stuff anyway. My biggest fear was to kill the high pressure pump on the engine, but as you say, common rail stuff is at throwaway value now.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

During a fuel shortage about 10 /12 years ago, a mate* may have, over a couple of weeks, put cherry, veg,paraffin and dregs of 2-stroke mix in a leased Galaxy. It was a130PD and didn't suffer any ill effects in the short term,although running it up to 100,000 miles before its first birthday, never servicing it, then giving it a haircut before it went back probably meant a bit of Crisp N Dry was the least of any stored up problems for the future.

[sierraman]

At £350 it will be rinsed. I guarantee you that. It will be literally worn smooth or with a serious defect like turbo gone or whatever. I take my hat off to you if you can find one however.

[320touring]

A bloke I recently worked with reckoned he'd ran a common rail Merc on veg for years without issue ... Can't comment on details or truthfulness of his claim, but people say it can be done.

if I can get a 320 w210 facelift derver for 350 it'd def e worth a shot!

 

  

I wouldn't bother, it'll fuck up in no time at all.

  

 

getting risk averse now Billy? I realise it will likely fuck up, but if the car is cheap enough it will not be much loss.

 

better I experiment (with many a backup car) than some poor sod try it with his only transport.

 

could make a good blog entry too!

 

My Alfa JTD loved 100% bio (b100). Only problem was, it started to rot a rubbery covering on the fuel return hose coming from the common rail injectors.

I think it would have run on a high percentage of SVO in the summer too..

Apparently you can run into problems purely because of the massive pressure the fuel is subject to in the rail and at point of injection, but I'm too thick to understand exactly what.

The low pressure in tank pump will likely suffer too but they're an issue when running on the expensive stuff anyway. My biggest fear was to kill the high pressure pump on the engine, but as you say, common rail stuff is at throwaway value now.

 

 

thanks for the info re the jtd- am sure some sort of lift pump replacement may be possible to counteract that issue when/if it arises

 

 

During a fuel shortage about 10 /12 years ago, a mate* may have, over a couple of weeks, put cherry, veg,paraffin and dregs of 2-stroke mix in a leased Galaxy. It was a130PD and didn't suffer any ill effects in the short term,although running it up to 100,000 miles before its first birthday, never servicing it, then giving it a haircut before it went back probably meant a bit of Crisp N Dry was the least of any stored up problems for the future.

  

 

mates like that are the best sort to have;)

 

yeah it would be good to try apd beside the tdi to compare like with like

 

At £350 it will be rinsed. I guarantee you that. It will be literally worn smooth or with a serious defect like turbo gone or whatever. I take my hat off to you if you can find one however.

we shall see-hence me asking folks to suggest all the cr dervs they know of-some of the left field may be working and in budget!

[garbaldy]

Look at cat d salvage cars kick out the dents and fill it up,

[skattrd]

The Merc I was told had been run on veg was a 220cdi, I can't say I've seen any in the price range you're looking though.

[320touring]

The Merc I was told had been run on veg was a 220cdi, I can't say I've seen any in the price range you're looking though.

*wafts cash in sellers face*

 

the 320cdi seem to pop up for no much more.

[UltraWomble]

I wouldn't bother, it'll fuck up in no time at all.

Im running the HDi on a 25/75 mix of SVO to Dino and its doing fine.

Watch this space for updates on major grenadeage.

Experience with the HDi seems to suggest that the lift pumps cant cope with the viscosity and are the first component to fail, but the rest of the system is OK on a mixture. It went through an impromptu MOT yesterday on a mix and passed.

 

I should warn though that my HDi has no EGR and no DPF/Catalyst - its all been deleted. It has no (and never has had) the magical Eloys Fluid which can also react with bio and sludge up. Basically is an XUD with twiddly bits rather than a DW10 with antipollution  gubbins. The fuel system runs at something like 1200 BAR which is a phenomenal pressure compared with the XUD fuel system, so thicker fuel will have an impact on sensors, seals and possibly even cause premature injector wear ( I already have one that ticks madly).

Given the cost of the car, Im not too bothered about a mahoosive grenadeage happening, but so far about 1500 miles have been covered on a 25% mix without issue. I'll likely scale the mix down to zero as the temp drops. There is a mixed opinion about bio and common rail diesel compatability. If you go for greater than 50% mix I expect that it will break and quite quickly.

 

Try it and let us know what happens.

[UltraWomble]

Forgot to say, buy a couple of spare fuel filters, change it after 1000 or so on veg, then be prepared to change it again. I keep one in the glove box now.

[320touring]

Im running the HDi on a 25/75 mix of SVO to Dino and its doing fine.

Watch this space for updates on major grenadeage.

Experience with the HDi seems to suggest that the lift pumps cant cope with the viscosity and are the first component to fail, but the rest of the system is OK on a mixture. It went through an impromptu MOT yesterday on a mix and passed.

 

I should warn though that my HDi has no EGR and no DPF/Catalyst - its all been deleted. It has no (and never has had) the magical Eloys Fluid which can also react with bio and sludge up. Basically is an XUD with twiddly bits rather than a DW10 with antipollution gubbins. The fuel system runs at something like 1200 BAR which is a phenomenal pressure compared with the XUD fuel system, so thicker fuel will have an impact on sensors, seals and possibly even cause premature injector wear ( I already have one that ticks madly).

Given the cost of the car, Im not too bothered about a mahoosive grenadeage happening, but so far about 1500 miles have been covered on a 25% mix without issue. I'll likely scale the mix down to zero as the temp drops. There is a mixed opinion about bio and common rail diesel compatability. If you go for greater than 50% mix I expect that it will break and quite quickly.

 

Try it and let us know what happens.

nice one:)hdi's seem most accessible at this price point tbh.

 

so your hdi has cr injection?

[Lacquer Peel]

Nearly every diesel post-2000 ish is common rail.

VW PD and Land Rover TD5 have unit injectors, which is essentially a pump and injector combined for each cylinder. I've heard unit injection setups might be more tolerant than CR injection.

[Cavcraft]

Neil, it was a local diesel specialist who put me off, he reckoned it just clogged everything up and knackered fuel pumps on common rail stuff.

If you do experiment, though, can you get a Vectra CDTi 120 please, as if it works I'll lob some in mine!

[Lacquer Peel]

Diesel specialists will tell you it knackers up older engines as well. There's certainly more to go wrong and less tolerance for thick fuel in a CR or UI engine.

[hairnet]

multipla

 

http://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/109344-will-diesel-multipla-run-vegetable-oil.html

 

they say no but then the clued up ones say yes if you mix it

[320touring]

Neil, it was a local diesel specialist who put me off, he reckoned it just clogged everything up and knackered fuel pumps on common rail stuff.

If you do experiment, though, can you get a Vectra CDTi 120 please, as if it works I'll lob some in mine!

I had spied some worth considering. issue is working out whether the ftp was veg related of bcuz voxhal?

[320touring]

some turds for consideration:

 

the jtd/cdti/tid lump seems to be a winner cheaps wize:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/fiat-punto-19-diesel-51-plate-5-door-black-long-mot-drive-away/1123391709

 

dci lump for extra anxity:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/renault-clio-diesel/1123381951

 

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/cheap-renault-laguna-for-sale/1123359898

[Lacquer Peel]

I wonder how tolerant of dodgy fuel CR Transits are, considering their target market.

[cort16]

I recon a Mondeo TDCi with a rattly flywheel is a likely candidate. There's plenty of cheap ones out there and they're on the death spiral. I think Wuvvums selling one although it may be a bit far away.

[warren t claim]

I wonder how tolerant of dodgy fuel CR Transits are, considering their target market.

I know someone who tried to run one on cherry and it promptly went into limp mode.

[320touring]

I recon a Mondeo TDCi with a rattly flywheel is a likely candidate. There's plenty of cheap ones out there and they're on the death spiral. I think Wuvvums selling one although it may be a bit far away.

it had crossed my mind:)

[sierraman]

I wonder how tolerant of dodgy fuel CR Transits are, considering their target market.

More likely to run on cherry than veg.

[twosmoke300]

Cherry , for the last 3 or so years , is exactly the same as derv .It used to have a slightly higher sulphur content but that was changed . Now it is just a red die added to normal diesel.

[Lankytim]

I think many of the issues with veg/bio/cherry is down to contamination when you fill up. A dead bee recently stopped my XM.

 

Also, I think cold starts is what fucks CR when run on veg... it's just too thick.

[Lacquer Peel]

There was someone from Norway on the VOD forum who mixed petrol with veg oil until it had the same cold weather qualities as diesel, I think the ratio was 30-40% petrol to 60-70% veg oil. That mix might work in a CR diesel.

[cort16]

I guess the more you add diesel or petrol the less value you get therefore the less worthwhile it is pissing around doing it is?. If you're running used veg youre getting for 10p a litre adding 40% pez still means a massive saving but not new veg stuff at 90p a litre or whatever.