Dave's shonkers - continuing electroshite

[Dave_Q]

7 minutes ago, Spurious said:

What's the story with the Roffle Ignis? Was it just too crispy to be saved?

I put it up on an Ignis group as well as here and a localish bloke has bought it. 
He said he might fix it or he might break it. 

It's not that it's not saveable, I could have got it through an MOT but it had  already been sat there a couple of months with no action so would undoubtedly have been there till next year deteriorating further. 

It wasn't particularly rusty but it needed a few suspension bits, possibly brakes all round and a clutch. The clutch might be the thing that tips it from save to break as they are not cheap and apparently it can be difficult to source the correct clutch for the Sport.

As some bits like the seats go for decent money, and the car was fairly rough as a former cat C, its one of those where to a breaker it was a £400 car, to get everything sorted it probably needed £3-400 spending and a few days work to get you a car that is worth maybe £600 on a good day.

I do feel a bit of a failure having got it from the forum but it's not like it was a legendary forum bike, @Ghosty I think got it in a swap deal for something else and hadn't had it that long.

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

@Ghosty I think got it in a swap deal for something else and hadn't had it that long.

I swapped it for that absolutely banjaxed Accord Aerodeck on bike carbs that I had, because it just wasn't selling, and I managed to combine the collection with a trip to the FoD. I ran around in it for a couple of months then punted it on as I didn't have much use for it, and I'd never intended to keep it.

[Dave_Q]

I think I'm pretty happy that the turbo isn't dead on the Audi.

After I was furtling about with the turbo and pipes I went out in it again to do some child taxiing and the noise was definitely mostly gone. 

Before it was pretty consistently there on boost but now its more when you let off the throttle.

The boost pipes have some O-rings which are cheap to replace so I think the plan is to whip off the hoses and leak test them, reassemble with new O-rings and Mr Muscle the turbo vanes, and call it done. 

Still have EML on but not in limp so need to VAGCOM it up when the lead arrives. 

[Dave_Q]

Got my VAGCOM cable and had a poke. Was able to turn the EML off but there are definitely codes there that suggest all is not well with the turbo vanes or inlet system. 

Quote

8 Faults Found:

000564 - Boost Pressure Regulation 
               P0234 - 000 - Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition) - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208343 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2394 /min
                    Speed: 96.0 km/h
                    Load: 52.5 %
                    Voltage: 14.21 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00000100
                    Absolute Pres.: 2274.6 mbar
                    Absolute Pres.: 1836.0 mbar

005658 - Glowplug for Cylinder 1 (Q10) 
               P161A - 000 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 11.93 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00000100
                    Temperature: 39.6°C
                    Bin. Bits: 00110000

000387 - Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81) 
               P0183 - 000 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 9.73 V
                    Temperature: 12.6°C
                    Temperature: 11.7°C
                    Temperature: 38.7°C

000258 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
               P0102 - 000 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 840 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Duty Cycle: 100.6 %
                    Bin. Bits: 00000100
                    Mass Air / Rev.: 690.0 mg/str
                    Mass Air / Rev.: 0.0 mg/str

012295 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) 
               P3007 - 000 - No Signal
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 882 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 13.91 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00000100
                    Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
                    (no units): 48.0

008825 - Leak in Air Intake System 
               P2279 - 000 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2394 /min
                    Speed: 55.0 km/h
                    Load: 67.5 %
                    Voltage: 13.91 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00000100
                    Torque: 314.8 Nm
                    Temperature: 93.6°C

008194 - Particulate Trap Bank 1 
               P2002 - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 208412 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2562 /min
                    Speed: 60.0 km/h
                    (no units): 5.10
                    (no units): -10.20
                    Mass Flow: 93.87 g/s
                    Temperature: 294.0°C
                    Temperature: 15.3°C

001137 - Exhaust Pressure Sensor 1 
               P0471 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    (no units): -15.30
                    (no units): -25.50
                    Mass Flow: 5.69 g/s
                    Temperature: 126.0°C
                    Temperature: 12.6°C

Readiness: 1 5 0 0 0 
 

The only thing to come back was the camshaft position sensor so that definitely needs a look.

Still not sure whether it has a DPF or not, some of those codes seem to relate to one but the DPF measuring blocks don't seen right:

80km since last regen but 0 total regens and 0 failed? There is a can of a suitable size just behind the turbo but with no sensors on/around it, I'm leaning towards no DPF but maybe it was an option hence being kinda partially in the software.

[Dave_Q]

Also got my daughter to help with some logging, didn't manage to save it but the actual boost seems to lag requested significantly when you put your foot down then massively overshoot, so that does also seem to confirm that the VG vanes aren't doing their thing good.

[bigfella2]

I've got a hooky, but full version of vcds if you've only got the basic version, but I also need some keys doing for a clio so could kill two birds with one stone.

[Dave_Q]

5 hours ago, bigfella2 said:

I've got a hooky, but full version of vcds if you've only got the basic version, but I also need some keys doing for a clio so could kill two birds with one stone.

Thanks, these are canbus so the basic/lie version doesn't work, I've bought a replica* hex-v2 off a bloke on FB marketplace which seems to be working well and should have everything.

But yeah let me know about the keys, can still get those sorted for you.

[bangernomics]

On 10/4/2022 at 5:46 AM, Dave_Q said:

One of the benefits of collectioning MultiMode™ is that you can get to the next nearest station that might have a train on with only moderate sweating and inconvenience.

Breakfast count: 1

PC: 0

Planned location at 5:45: Approximately Leeds

Actual location at 5:45: Huddersfield, stationary

I has the bike envy.

[Dave_Q]

1 hour ago, bangernomics said:

I has the bike envy.

Tried other folders but none come close tbh, this was fairly (Brompton) cheap used (as in about £400) and still needed some bits. I've upgraded to a mildly bodgy 9 speed setup so I can get up hills.

If you're keen I can get 10% off Halfords vouchers which makes a brand new 3-speed A-line £765, the prices people charge for second hand ones it's not bad value.

There are occasional bargains but not many. You can also get a replica* off of AliExpress for about 600 new.

[bangernomics]

Hmm very tempted I did blow this months idiot budget on a c5 but I may take you up on that kind offer.

To clarify




Gzongenflatch

[Dave_Q]

I'm glad you came back with the picture as I was deffo picturing a Citroen. Top darts. 

In the meantime the van finally got an MOT:

I did post another thread talking about welding, I managed to find a chap locally who quoted me for it and all seemed well.

Until I took it to fail it's first MOT on 15th Sept then he wasn't able to fit me in for "a few weeks".
Worked out for the best as I ended up getting in touch with a Vito man who has welded it up and fitted an exhaust and a track rod end for less than man 1 quoted for the welding. 

The Vito man has a tricked out XLong himself, its got electric sunroofs out of some sort of Land Rover grafted into the back along with a rock and roll bed which folds down automatically using hydraulic rams scavenged from an Audi TT electric roof.

[cobblers]

1 minute ago, Dave_Q said:

its got electric sunroofs out of some sort of Land Rover grafted into the back along with a rock and roll bed which folds down automatically using hydraulic rams scavenged from an Audi TT electric roof.

This sounds like it will definitely give years of trouble free enjoyment

[Dave_Q]

1 minute ago, cobblers said:

This sounds like it will definitely give years of trouble free enjoyment

Looked pretty swish and deffo worked while I was stood there, TBF it's the blokes own van I don't think he is offering sunroof grafts or Robot Wars R&R beds as a service so if it breaks or leaks he's only upsetting himself.

[Dave_Q]

Wife has been running around in the Audi for a few days while we were waiting for a garage slot for them to do the balljoint hers failed its MOT on. 

Got it back today so had a faff.

Objectives:

• Test vac lines and accumulator thing for vaccuum-ness
• Check all intake hoses and find source of squeaky leaky noise
• Mr Muscle all up in the turbo

Access to the turbo is ace with the airbox out, this has to be one of the worlds most easily accessible turbos on a passenger car. 

Findings:

• All the vac things seem to be non-leaky as tested with my new knockoff mityvac thing
• Could not detect any holes in any hoses. Replaced a few of the O-rings and reseated one clamp/hose that looked 5% questionable
• Egr pipe where it attached to the manifold was missing a bolt. As this was the only leak detected, maybe this was the noise?

Did the Mr Muscle thing, you poke a hose down the EGR hole and try and get it in the turbo. I think it all went in but TBH it hasn't helped much with the VG mechanism in the turbo.

Here is how much movement I have in the actuator currently:

Which looks less than what you're meant to have according to this video here (about 1min20 in):

I took the car out for a drive, the noise is gone and I didn't get a limp mode (other than the one triggered by not plugging the MAP sensor back in) but it still doesn't feel right, takes a bit longer than expected to pick up below 2000rpm.

So what now? I have ordered a bottle of this snake oil which was recommended by a mate who used it with success on a similar TDI. If that doesn't work, I guess I will have to take the turbo off and clean it mechanically.

https://reviveturbocleaner.com/

So will the magic turbo cleaner work? Place bets now?

[320touring]

Just map the turbo to max boost from 1100rpm, fuelling to max and bingo.

Then hope the vanes fail in max boost setting.

[Dave_Q]

20 hours ago, 320touring said:

Just map the turbo to max boost from 1100rpm, fuelling to max and bingo.

Then hope the vanes fail in max boost setting.

She's for posing, not racing. Although I suppose if you just put max boost and SVBL to 5 bar or whatever you won't get any overboost faults...

Anyway, snake oil time:

Thirty six GBP this was so I had high hopes. Seems to be mostly water based, maybe mixed with a bit of TFR and essential oils.

It has instructions, you fire it in the inlet after the MAF. 250ml at 2500rpm, then 250ml at 1800rpm, then wait 4 min, then 250ml at 2000rpm. Idle till mushroom cloud subsides then 20min test drive.

Smoke/steam was definitely made

After the test drive, it's better but not all the way fixed. Low down it seems to pick up better, I reckon it has made the VG move easier within the travel range that it did have. But booting up a hill still get limp mode/overboost at 3000rpm.

Not been to recheck with my vac tester but I don't think I will have gained any travel on the turbo actuator.

Probably worth it for milder cases of limp mode/Old Diesel Malady but not this time.

Will drive it round for a bit in case it miraculously fixes itself but I reckon, predictably TBF, the cleaner is not powerful enough and the turbo needs to come off.

[Dave_Q]

@320touring - with the vg travel limited shes boosting close to 2.6bar vs 1.7 requested when limp is triggered.

In fact I think 2590mbar must be the SVBL as it triggers limp at this pressure every time.

[Dave_Q]

Did a log on the way to work:

Blue is engine speed, orange requested boost and grey is actual.

You can see the grey lags the orange until 2600rpm when it suddenly goes past and overboosts. 

I am sure that I am missing some VG travel at both ends leading to this behaviour. Will get the turbo pulled off one day soon. 

Worst case you can get a reman exchange unit for about £200.

[bigfella2]

You can do an actuator test on vcds, that should show it move it's full range, you can can hear the exhaust change when you do it, but not sure if it's any benefit for you.

I can't remember how you do it as I have been VAG free for a couple of years but plenty of guides out there.

[Dave_Q]

Thanks, might have a look at that later. 

TBH I think I've already convinced myself that it's not getting enough travel from the test with the vac pump, so just need to get on with taking the turbo off really

[Dave_Q]

Turbo off. Not a bad job really.

15:52:

16:13:

17:29:

Had a quick look inside and hmm. Seemed sooty but not terrible, vanes definitely siezed.

I gave it a clean, the vanes move freely in the plate so thought I was onto a winner. But back together, and most of them still don't really move.

Looking closely I think there is some damage like some sort of hard particles have been through here? 

Very strange. The wheels look ok, if there was a FOD issue you'd expect chunks out of the wheels or something but the wheels look OK.

I'll have a go at cleaning up the areas with some emery paper but tbh I might just get a new turbo, you can get a genuine Garrett reman for about £230.

[New POD]

Dave, I was the manufacturing engineer in the UK that put in the assembly lines in Skemlesdale, for the Ford version of the VNT.  That one probably came from Italy or France.  Each came is pretty simple, in that the vane,  comes with a ground shaft, which goes through a hole, and then there's a leg tig welded to the end of the shaft.  The legs sit in a ring gear, which rotates to open and close all the vanes at the same time.  If a vane is sticking, it can only be that there is something in the clearance between the ground shaft in the vane and the hole it runs through. 

The only thing that can be is some sort of unburnt hydrocarbon. Soot.  I have no idea what chemicals dissolve soot. But sitting it in a bath of something nasty like caustic soda solution. (Like what we did with 2 stroke exhausts back in the day) might be an idea.  Then clean it in an ultrasonic bath, then oil it and see if they are free.

There should be a small amount of free play where the vane touches, which is there for heat expansion. 

It does look like the ring has a bit of wear, in the second to last picture. Make sure there are no high spots. 

[Dave_Q]

Cheers Mark. Made in Romania according to the label.  As were the other 2 or 3 Garrett/Honeywell units I've had my hands on for benchmarking in the last few years.

In those 2 pics you can see what looks like FOD damage. I've had a go at taking the high spots down with a file and some sandpaper and this has got the vanes to move but when I went to put it all back together I noticed the turbine wheel blades are all pretty chewed up at the outer edge (exducer?)

So recon unit it is. You can get will-fit cores to put in them for £80-90 but I don't think the VG cartridge will ever be right again either. The vanes move very freely when out of the turbo and seem to get caught between the plate and the housing when assembled. 

I put it all back together and I do get full travel on the actuator now but the spec is 18inHg to get to the stop and it needs more like 25.

Obviously I could adjust the actuator and get it working something like but for the price of a recon it's not worth trying to bodge it.

I suspect the fact that the EGR pipe was missing a bolt means someone before me has known it was sticking, tried Mr Muscle and failed.

I don't really know what could have gone through it as the engine doesn't seem to have swirl flaps or owt. Maybe the damage to the housings was from recirculated bits of wheel?

[Dave_Q]

Turbo came today. Very impressed TBH, next day delivery and the thing looks like new for £195. Wasn't clear from the listing whether gaskets etc would be included but they were. 

15:06

Got it on pretty quick. Almost all the bolts are easily accessible, the ones behind the actuator are a bit of a faff but I figured out I could just about get a cranked end ring spanner on and tighten them 1/12 of a turn at a time.

Paused at 16:28 due to children:

Resumed at 18:57:

Finished at 19:28

Been for a quick brum up the road and all seems well, at least all the oil didn't fall out and there were no death noises. Will go drive up a hill and take a log to see what's what and report back.

[Dave_Q]

Think we can call it fixed, this was a pull from 1000rpm in 3rd. Actual lags slightly till about 1500rpm then matches requested.

4500rpm achieved foot down with no limp mode. 

Sadly, it was actually a bit faster before (in the bit between the turbo starting working and warp field collapse) we're currently getting 2400mbar/1.4 bar boost vs 2590/1.6 bar before. A remap may happen, one day.

[Stanky]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

Will go drive up a hill and take a log to see what's what

why do you need to poo at the top of a hill to find out if it's fixed? 😁😁😁

[Dave_Q]

To celebrate picturegeddon week let's have a TEDIOUS TEXTUAL UPDATE:

Audi still driving well, turbo hasn't exploded and all the oil hasn't fallen out. It's done it's first DPF regen with me, the light came on on the way back from swimming. After some effort to find a manual on t'internet I found I had to drive at over 60kmh, over 2000rpm, for 10-15 minutes. 

I took it out to drive it down the motorway to save the environment, I stuck some diesel in before I went and the light went off straight away? It was on just below 1/4 before and I know they won't regen if they don't have a certain amount of fuel.

Dunno what I was expecting to happen, it could do with a light to tell you a regen is occurring as aborting can lead to problems. I did my 15min or so on the motorway in 5th gear and brought it home, VCDS says 20km since last regen and soot level 0% so we'll assume it's done the business. 

Van went back in for some further work, engine mounts and track rods. My van man reckons the track rods should have failed the MOT and the mounts had lost all their magic juice. With that lot and the tracking done its driving much better, I had never realised how much vibration there was from the engine before.

I've also decided to put AT tyres on for the winter, I've ordered some Insa Turbo BFG knockoffs and I've found 2 steel rims, just need 2 more.

[bigfella2]

So a light comes on to tell you it needs a regen, but doesn't have a light to tell you when its doing a regen? Only asking as I've never owned a car with a dpf.

[Dave_Q]

11 hours ago, bigfella2 said:

So a light comes on to tell you it needs a regen, but doesn't have a light to tell you when its doing a regen? Only asking as I've never owned a car with a dpf.

From what I can gather, if everything is working OK you don't get any lights or notification at all, it just does its thing. The light only comes on if it's filling up and the conditions to regen haven't happened for X amount of miles.

I reckon that putting a light or a message on the dash saying something like "DPF cleaning, do not turn off engine" would be helpful as aborting them is bad news but I guess they are trying not to shit up the average user so keep it incognito.

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

From what I can gather, if everything is working OK you don't get any lights or notification at all, it just does its thing. The light only comes on if it's filling up and the conditions to regen haven't happened for X amount of miles.

I reckon that putting a light or a message on the dash saying something like "DPF cleaning, do not turn off engine" would be helpful as aborting them is bad news but I guess they are trying not to shit up the average user so keep it incognito.

Yep.  There was at least one company (Vauxhall is the one I can remember from memory) who had the glow plug light used to flash while a regen was in progress - but as the average driver was incapable of taking 2 minutes to consult the handbook, dealers just got a plethora of complaints from befuddled owners - so they did away with the practice after a very short period.  Not sure if the ECU firmware was updated at service time on the vehicles which used to have this feature to disable it.