1.6HDI, engine strip pix and report following turbo falure

[gordonbennet]

This was posted on another forum, i know most of you lot share my abhorrence of neglect, including IMO so called long life servicing which is just maker recommended neglect with an expensive sting fortunately waiting till warranty expires.

 

Enjoy, it makes grim viewing....http://www.assuredperformance.ie/assets/images/Presentation-1.6-hdi-carbo-issues.pdf

[UltraWomble]

Although supposedly more reliable all my 2.0 HDi's get 6K oil & filter changes.

20K my arse.

[PiperCub]

Holy crap - that's ugly, you should have issued a 'Parental discretion is advised' notice!!

 

I've been inside a good few engines in my time but never seen anything like that, looks like the engine's equivilent of hardened arteries. 

Did I read it right? Initial oil changes at 30K miles? Seriously? I share your abhorance of so-called Long-life servicing, what a con job, as an old-timer I once worked with drummed into my skull "Oil cheap, bearings expensive" That's it.

 

From what the list of jobs you are supposed to do post turbo replacement, it'd be almost cheaper to buy a new engine and be done with it. Are we really at the dawn of the disposable engine?

[steve_earwig]

looks like the engine's equivilent of hardened arteries.

That was exactly what was going through my mind looking at those pictures. 30,000 miles is ludicrous but you gotta keep those fleet servicing costs down (mine get serviced every 10,000km)

 

PSA group blah blah blah, it's a Ford DLD

[PiperCub]

Very sensible move - An oil change every 10-12000Kms (6-8K miles) is not exactly a big ask when you consider how that will extend the life & reliability of the engine.

[Bren]

Is this the lump used in the focus? I am led to believe that new turbo should only be fitted to a rebuilt engine otherwise there is no guarantee for the unit.

[Bren]

Sadly the brain dead motoring public buy into it because they think they are saving money.

 

Oil changes are cheaper than a rebuilt engine.

[Lacquer Peel]

That was exactly what was going through my mind looking at those pictures. 30,000 miles is ludicrous but you gotta keep those fleet servicing costs down (mine get serviced every 10,000km)

 

PSA group blah blah blah, it's a Ford DLD

I don't think Ford had that much to do with the engine's development, being quite poor at diesel engines, and PSA previously being excellent.

[warren t claim]

oddly enough I know of a few of these units running in Focus taxis that never get serviced at all and still refuse to die.

[sierraman]

Its the same morons that go to Carcraft or The Car People and get told 'yeah get it serviced every 30k or 5 years (at which point the oil will be like Marmite) even though you do 5k a year this diesel will be great for you and your annual trip to Skegness, save you at least £3-4 a month, anyway you are now tied into a 5 year £5000 finance deal on a £3000 car. But no worry. When the main bearings go you can come back and we can rejig it until we do one massive loan, a big one, that ultimately ends in a CCJ.

[alf892]

Bren is bang on with this.

 

Our fleet had a number of Focus affected where we had turbos fitted (by dealers) as per bulletin which failed quickly where warranty was refused. Even the parts warranty on the turbo was blocked despite being documented as fitted in accordance with the bulletin.

 

To cut a very long story short this was only resolved by holding Ford Fleet to ransom over an order for a further 250 cars. If you are a private punter you are fucked.

[Alan_Green]

Just to repeeat - the big heavy Dispatches/Experts/Scudos/Jumpys that have the 1.6HDi engine must be absolutely doomed.  All that weight plus whatever the cargo is and a 20,000 mile service interval.

[Rusty_Rocket]

These things are quickly becoming notorious in the trade.  I can't believe they are so hopeless.

 

I totally agree about the oil changes (I do all mine every 5k- it's so cheap if you DIY), but I don't think you can blame the average Joe for merely following the manufacturer's guidelines.

We change our oil regularly because we understand the need to do so.  If Aunty Dorris part x's her Morris 1000 for a new Peugeot/ Citroen/ Faaawd/ Volvo and the slimy salesman eagerly explains that she will save money by only having her car serviced every 30k, she's hardly going to have 6k services for the sake of it.  After all, the manufacturer's word should be gospel- they design and build the heaps o' junk..

[steve_earwig]

Is this the lump used in the focus?

List of doomed cars here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine#DLD-416

[nacho man]

2009–present Volvo S80 1.6D DRIVe, 109 PS (107 bhp; 80 kW) and 177 lb·ft (240 N·m)

 

 

Bet that's a hoot to drive seeing as s80's are about 23ft long

[DS20]

2009–present Volvo S80 1.6D DRIVe, 109 PS (107 bhp; 80 kW) and 177 lb·ft (240 N·m)

 

 

Bet that's a hoot to drive seeing as s80's are about 23ft long

 

It's certainly a low-powered engine for a big car by today's standards, but it's not a million miles away from the lowest-powered engines in mid-1980s vintage Volvo 740s.  IIRC some of the non-turbo 2-litre 740s had somewhere between 110 and 120 bhp.  The 740 is +/-200kg lighter than the S80, but the 1.6 diesel has rather more torque than the old 2-litre petrol, so I doubt they would feel terribly different in terms of usable performance.  

[fordperv]

Bloody hell i havn't seen anything like that since I sorted a cvh that had black death

[Bren]

Police focii have these engines.

 

I wonder how they respond to neglect?

[twosmoke300]

So the owner went 10 k over the service interval , twice ?

Not much sympathy there I'm afraid .

[PhilA]

I guess, in a way, the ritual "ignore the manual and change the oil every 3000 miles" thing here seems to save engines.

 

Like quoth: Oil is cheaper than bearings.

 

 

--Phil

[cort16]

My juke is 18k intervals but it's now at 8 and I was thinking about changing the oil even though I bought the service pack . I think I will now .

[twosmoke300]

All the customers cars I service have a maximum of 10000 miles put on the reminder sticker . 6000 for anything highly stressed

[UltraWomble]

 

In 1998, PSA entered into a joint venture with the Ford Motor Company to produce a range of new diesel engines. The joint venture makes identical engines which are fitted to a variety of vehicles from a range of car manufacturers. The engines are assembled in production plants in the cities of Trémery and Douvrin for PSA in France, at the FordDagenham plant in the UK, and the Ford-owned Volvo Engine Plant in Skövde Sweden.

The 1.6 L (1,560 cc) Diesel is part of the DV/DLD family and is, depending application, called the DV6 (PSA), W16 (MINI) or DLD-416 (Ford). 90 PS and 110 PS versions are available. Though both intercooled, the major difference being that the 90 PS has a conventional waste-gated Mitsubishi MHI TD025 turbo charger, whilst the 110 PS uses a Garret GT15V variable geometry (VNT) turbocharger. The 110 PS version of this engine can be ordered in an unprecedented variety of car models, representing either side of the motoring spectrum, ranging from the MINI Cooper D to the Volvo S80 1.6D DRIVe. From 2011 PSA start to develop (1,598 cc) diesel with BMW/Mini

[MarvinsMom]

the service interval on the rover is 15000, but i've been changing the oil in that at 10000 mile intervals as i thought that 15000 was way, way too long.

 

seems that i was right, and maybe even changing oil and filters then maybe leaving them for too long between changes.

[gordonbennet]

I learned much from my old boss of 30 odd years ago, he bought British lorries (proper patriot wouldn't have anything foreign in the yard, don't know what he'd do now) always properly specced, the biggest usually Cummins engine available, Eaton Fuller box and Rockwell axles, his service regime was 15k miles for engine oil changes and gearbox and axle oils changed every third service so 45k....chassis shot blasted and painted every couple of years, rest of servicing to match, nicely painted in BRG over black chassis with pale gold proper signwriting,  white front bumpers.

 

Those lorries usually did between 5 and 7 years of constant 70mph hard running, they went like hell and never normally  went wrong, and when he came to sell them there was a queue of owner drivers and small hauliers wanting to buy them.

 

He didn't waste money, he spent it wisely, always said that oil was damned cheap compared with engines and gearboxes and downtime.

 

My own cars never go above about 6k miles before i can't leave the oil any more, often half that mileage, see no reason to change.

[bigfella2]

I think the only to effect any kind of permanent repair is to, remove engine, completely dismantle and put every part through a part washer then reassemble. And as someone said earlier it would be uneconomical to do. I wonder how many mini, Volvo owner etc actually realise there hideously expensive cars have what is fundamentaly a Citroën berlingo engine? And a shit one at that.

[Timewaster]

I was warned not to buy a 1.6HDI about 3 years ago by a ex colleague who now works for one of the biggest engine rebuilders.

 

How right he was.

I'm sure he mentioned the sump bung not being at the bottom of the sump, leaving a cup full of shit in the sump every oil change.

 

Fortunately the 1.4 in Mrs Tops 206 is not affected in anything like the same way.

[alf892]

I think the only to effect any kind of permanent repair is to, remove engine, completely dismantle and put every part through a part washer then reassemble. And as someone said earlier it would be uneconomical to do. I wonder how many mini, Volvo owner etc actually realise there hideously expensive cars have what is fundamentaly a Citroën berlingo engine? And a shit one at that.

How many Berlingo owners are chuffed to fuck their van shares a Volvo engine? Probably claim it makes it safer too

[cort16]

I wonder if manufacturer had been subject to court action for a fundamental non safety bit of shit design or poor guidance around servicing?

[gordonbennet]

We had the 110 hp version of this in the C2 VTS, however in our ownership the oil got changed every 3 to 4k and it never gave any issues.

 

Interestingly though, as with BMW's 2 litre, within moments of an oil change you'd never know, the oil was black as a black thing immediately, apart from the sump bung there must be umpteen oil traps in the engine so you never fullt drained the bloody thing.

 

Compare to our 3 litre Hilux, the oil of which stayed clean as new for over 1000 miles and then only gradually darkened, once changed (3k, we meant to keep it really long term but sold it on at 3.5 years) the oil would again stay clean for another thousand miles, that engine must have had very good internal drainage....i also slipped a Fumoto quick drain valve onto that, the bung was in just the wrong spot and oil poured all over the cross member making a right bloody mess, the Fumoto cured that and made oil changing a suit and tie job if you so desired,

 

Am i the only one who insists on draining via the bung every time and wouldn't entertain a vacuum pump.