A tragic day

[Richard]

I would say there's more likely to be an escape route on a motorway than on any other road.

[forddeliveryboy]

Where, on a clogged motorway if you're in the middle or outer lanes? Or driving down the hard shoulder around the M42?

[Craig the Princess]

I too have saved myself by slowing right down when someone coming the other way overtakes beyond their abilities. But that is if they do it in the distance. If they don't look at take you out you have no chance. This happens every year or so on my old commute to work down the single carriageway A47 near Wisbech. Last year's one was a car leaving a petrol station squashed by a lorry out didn't see. If that had been me indeed of a huge big lorry what chance would I have?

[HillmanImp]

Where, on a clogged motorway if you're in the middle or outer lanes? Or driving down the hard shoulder around the M42?

 

Its better to plough into a car to the side of you going in the same direction instead of a car coming straight at you or hitting a tree head on.

[Richard]

The A9's average speed cameras have added an extra dimension to adventurous overtaking, people are now doing elephant racing type overtakes on single carriageway sections.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

The M1 managed thing wasn't in operation this morning,I came up that section at about 06.30. Trafic was light and no fog,it was bit wet but not much spray because there wasn't much traffic.

Where it happened was immediately after Toddington Services and J12 where it goes from 4 lanes back to 3 with part time hard shoulder running,if I had to guess, I would think either the coach driver didn't realise he was on the hard shoulder or he veered from lane 1 at just the wrong time.

Between 03.30 and 10.00 this morning I went to from Milton Keynes- Central London-Heathrow-Milton Keynes-Heathrow- Northampton- Milton Keynes and felt safest and most relaxed when on Motorways or dual carriageways as usual. As others have said ,you see lots of bent metal on Motorways,but tragedies such as today's are very rare.

[dollywobbler]

Most shunts on motorways seem to be minor bumps in congestion, or side swipes because some twat didn't check their blind spot. Rural roads see people driving far closer to the limits of their car, with far more danger going on all around. And far more immobile objects to hit if you go for a spin.

The much-feared truck-into-a-traffic jam scenario is so unlikely as to be worth ignoring. You're far more likely to be taken out by someone checking their phone rather than the road in rural parts. In all my years of driving, only once have I almost come a cropper, though ironically, I must admit that it was almost a truck up the arse! Back in 1997, on the M1. Fortunately, the truck swerved onto the hard shoulder or it would have been curtains. I've cheated death far more often on other roads though, sometimes with no other vehicle anywhere near.

[beko1987]

The most scared I've been recently was coming across a stationary part of the m40 at night, was no one behind me for a mile or so and I was doing 8ish when I saw it. Was a tense moment sat at the back of the traffic, hazards on, wheels pointing to the hard shoulder just in case...

[forddeliveryboy]

I had a mate in a 2cv who passed a parked A8 Audi with no indicators on, along an open trunk road. Fella was about to do a U-turn, he didn't signal but just buried the throttle and swung the wheel hard over. He clipped the back of the little French thing (going at a good 60) and sent it sliding to a wide verge, it then tripped and rolled a few times before sliding to a halt.

 

This is a great example of an accident which couldn't happen on a motorway, but had he seen the foreign plates, a mile from a big A road junction and had his mind really focused, there would have been alarm signals with that car. Low sun behind the 2cv, late in the day tired Audi driver. Something about it should have raised some flags, You can slow on a M-way if someone's driving raises concern, but more often than not it's a question of getting past asap unless you want to follow an accident waiting to happen.

 

Obviously slowing a little could have resulted in a full front-on impact, or a brush with the Audi's back bumper. I joked he wasn't going fast enough - he'd have avoided the tap. So to an extent we're all in the lap of the Gods, but I do think driver education and attention when driving is pitifully poor. There was a bad smash on the M1 at the south end of all the 50mph restriction in Derbyshire (I think) - people had lost their concentration.

 

I try and make motorway journeys early in the morning or late at night, I don't feel as safe as the stats suggest you are.

[dollywobbler]

Aye. Inattention is the biggest problem by far, but we're all guilty of it. Only last week, I was hurtling along in the 2cv, approaching a narrow bridge. There was a truck coming the other way and no way we were both going to fit through. It went a bit Hollywood as I just got through the narrow bit before the truck. There was not a cat in hell's chance that either of us could have stopped. If I'd tried, I probably wouldn't be here now. I try to be safe, but I've had a few near-misses in the past year (well, that and the Rover one). I can't really blame airbags giving a false sense of security can I?

[EssDeeWon]

I know we call these 'accidents' but most of the time its the twatty A3 type drivers driving too fast or too close to the car in front, lane hopping and generally not concentrating.

 

An accident is tripping over a broken paving slab or pissing on the toilet seat in the dark at 3am, but driving like a dick is not accidental and so many accidents could be prevented, not all, but so many could.

[Richard]

Tripping over a paving slab or pissing on a toilet seat aren't really accidents either, just like car crashes they are the result of mistakes.

 

The word "accident" has fallen out of favour in recent years. The police appeal signs tend to say "serious crash" and even when a pedestrian is run down the media say they were "in collision with a car".

[vulgalour]

Where motorways merge seem to be the most dangerous spots.  There's one particular junction on the A1(M)  northbound where I had to swerve to avoid someone entering my lane with no warning and had a car in the lane to my right who was in my blind spot.  Thankfully no harm done because the drivers around me were paying attention, unlike the car that pulled out on me.  A Princess shouldn't be that difficult to miss, not the first time I've had people try and drive into me though...

 

Again, on the same road but further along, I had a 7.5 tonne lorry pull out on me when I was in the Xantia, with all my lights on.  I wasn't even in his blind spot, I could see him in his door mirror and just as the nose end of my car got level with the back wheels of his wagon he pulled out on me.  Instant reaction was to swerve right, I spotted a car to my right so I had nowhere to go and chose to back off everything.  Lorry pulled back in and I got as far ahead of him as I could as quickly as possible.

 

So far I've been really lucky on motorways but I reckon it's only a matter of time until someone smashes into me, I've had a lot of near misses when other drivers simply don't seem to have seen me and my stopping distances have been my saving grace.  I don't do many motorway miles, so how long until I end up in a smash?

 

Does it stop me using the motorway?  Strangely no.  Not using the motorway would add anything up to an extra 3 hours to the journey I need to use the motorway for.  I take my chances, I drive carefully and I just hope luck is on my side when I encounter prats.

[forddeliveryboy]

Yep, some M-way junctions are lethal even when the roads are quiet. Or should I say some drivers drive bloody poorly, given a poor bit of road. Fill the road to breaking point and it's amazing people squeeze through, especially with modern cars' blind spots and rubbery steering.The psychology of a heavy car with multiple airbags and various electronic traction controls has made too many feel blissfully - nut lethally - isolated from all the other fast-moving steel bollides.

 

When the Tories starting cutting the police budgets, why oh why didn't they introduce (optionally, at first) advanced driver training? Education is usually the answer, provided it's done well and for the right reasons.

[Lankytim]

5 folk die everyday on UK roads. This includes pedestrians and stuff.

 

I've heard this before, but a load of gumph passed on to me from the rozzers catchy titled "what do do when a loved one is killed on the roads" mentioned 10 daily. Another source says 8 on average daily between 1999 and 2011. I'm not sure if there's any different way of recording a death on the road, unless some data doesn't include people who die after a lengthy stay in hospital or something.

 

Even if it is 10 a day, I think it's an amazingly low number considering the number of traffic movements that are happening 24/7/365.

[Vin]

Good News is No News...simple really.

 

'Accident' has fallen out of favour as it's associated with a 'well these things happen, that's life...' attitude...Society now needs somebody to blame whenever anything bad happens. Somebody has to be accountable for the misfortunes, disasters and failures of day to day life...It's all black and white now. 'Rationality' also appears to be a dirty word...

 

 

 

 

[HillmanImp]

Even if it is 10 a day, I think it's an amazingly low number considering the number of traffic movements that are happening 24/7/365.

 

I used to say something similar to my friends when was a teenager as they had been manipulated by the news into thinking that taking ecstasy was going to kill them. It was the mid 1990's 20% of all people between the ages of 16 and 30 were probably taking pills that weekend when there was such a minimal chance of the dying they probably had 'more chance of choking on an orange'.

 

Fuck me, even the daily mail agrees its not going to kill you:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-68418/The-truth-Ecstasy.html

 

The end of the article goes on about long term risks but people have been doing this since the 1980's and its probably got no more worse long term affects than alcohol. Okay Ketamine had an unfortunate side affect of rotting your bladder but ecstacy pills seem to be one of the less harmful stimulants out there but I am here drinking scotch, as I don't want to get pulled up for a drugs test on Monday and lose my job for doing drugs that are less harmful.

[HillmanImp]

Sorry, I might have drifted off topic there, i have had a drink. The first part is relevant though.

[MrDuke]

Tripping over a paving slab or pissing on a toilet seat aren't really accidents either, just like car crashes they are the result of mistakes.

 

The word "accident" has fallen out of favour in recent years. The police appeal signs tend to say "serious crash" and even when a pedestrian is run down the media say they were "in collision with a car".

 

The problem with tripping over a paving slab, is that someone might have the nerve to suggest that you should have been watching where you were walking....

 

It's true that the 'proper' term for a crash is now RTC (Collision) rather than RTA (Accident) because "accident" implies that there may not be a single individual to pin the blame on. While most crashes can indeed be attributed to twattish driving on the part of one or more people, I deeply dislike the insistence that every single incident result in someone being sued/prosecuted.

[catsinthewelder]

I generally feel pretty safe on the Motorway although the fact that I'm usually piloting a three ton van rather than the Cherry may have some bearing on this.  The main near misses I encounter are finding a BMW heading from lane 3 into lane 2 without signalling while I'm trying to check my blindspot before heading pulling into lane 2 from lane 1.

 

I've been on the wrong end of rural overtaking cock ups twice.  The first time was an Escort overtaking a tipper truck on a slight bend,  the truck driver saw me and mounted the verge at 40mph while I hit the brakes and pointed my NSR125 at the kerb.  The Escort passed about an inch from my elbow still going flat out.  The next time was a young lad in a Mk2 Fiesta trying to overtake a BMW,  wifey in the BMW objected to this so put her foot down.  Luckily there was a flat bit of grass on my side of the road and I must have had some luck on my side to swerve the Megane onto it at 40ish without drama.  That time I was very tempted to spin the car round and try and catch them both up for 'a word' but I needed to get to work.

[Cavcraft]

There was something on the radio not so long back that said rural roads were far more dangerous than A roads and motorways etc. I always like to think if you drive sensibly and keep a constant look out in all directions, you can probably mostly keep out of danger. The old 'treat everyone else as if they're an idiot who's about to pull out/switch lanes/crash into you' advice I got years back has served me pretty well. I still prefer the twisty lanes to work, though, it's a nicer journey than an A-road which has a high percentage of knobheads even at 6.00am.

 

Oh, we stopped having 'accidents' at work years ago, because don't you know accidents are caused? We now have some sort of incidents where people get sacked instead.

[meshking]

 

 

It's true that the 'proper' term for a crash is now RTC (Collision) rather than RTA (Accident) because "accident" implies that there may not be a single individual to pin the blame on. While most crashes can indeed be attributed to twattish driving on the part of one or more people, I deeply dislike the insistence that every single incident result in someone being sued/prosecuted.

I think this is good. The flipside of prosecuting someone, I think, is that they may adjust their behaviour. It seems that a lot of people don't take responsibility for their actions. If the way to get that through to them is to find some one to blame then I'm all for that.

 

As long as the correct person is blamed, and it is perhaps reported on in the news, then we might start to change society into a nicer place.

[Chas4545]

A thought provoking day for road users indeed. Trees kill people, fog kills people , phone users kill people (in ever increasing numbers) Wasn't there a guy given 14 years after causing death while on the phone?

 

I know it was a long time ago but the legend  that was Mike Hailwood was taken by a 10 tonner doing a u turn on a dual track  FFS.

 

Stupidity has no limits,  there but for the grace etc go all of us. I got Volvo V70 cos of all of this. Every little helps.

 

Motorways are safer but when that little voice says jeez its mad today cos of fog/speeders/tailgaiters/rain/snow I just get off the road and into a service area.

[Bren]

Modern cars = very good

 

Modern drivers = dumbed down idiots.

 

Put them both together and potentially you have a recipe for disaster.

[garethj]

I know we call these 'accidents' but most of the time its the twatty A3 type drivers driving too fast or too close to the car in front, lane hopping and generally not concentrating.

True, but you can't just focus on one type of car.  The minute you concentrate on the black, leased A3 Sportline it's the bloke in the Accord that wipes you out because you haven't been looking around.

 

I think that accidents can be avoided if there's just one idiot around, all the normal people can make room for him.  For example, if one lunatic is weaving in an out going around a roundabout, everyone else avoids him.  If there are two idiots in the same place then an accident is much more likely.  To take the same example, if the weaving idiot comes across someone pushing onto the roundabout when it's not quite clear...

[Angrydicky]

Driving along the London bound side of the A127 last week, I came up behind a signwritten van (housing association maintenance) that was weaving all over the road, it nearly clipped the kerb a few times, and was doing 45mph in a NSL section.

 

My initial thought was that he was drunk, and that I should get past before he causes an accident. So as I passed the van, I looked across at the driver. Twat was texting, with his eyes fixed downwards on his phone rather than the road.

[EssDeeWon]

True, but you can't just focus on one type of car.  The minute you concentrate on the black, leased A3 Sportline it's the bloke in the Accord that wipes you out because you haven't been looking around.

 

I think that accidents can be avoided if there's just one idiot around, all the normal people can make room for him.  For example, if one lunatic is weaving in an out going around a roundabout, everyone else avoids him.  If there are two idiots in the same place then an accident is much more likely.  To take the same example, if the weaving idiot comes across someone pushing onto the roundabout when it's not quite clear...

 

I dont focus on one type of car when I am driving, I was just referring to the type of driver who is always in more of a hurry than anyone else, these plebs are often causes of collisions or near misses. The leased VAG product in white, black or silver with bluetooth I tend to find the worst for 'fuck everyone else I have an important meeting at 9am'

[garethj]

I dont focus on one type of car when I am driving, I was just referring to the type of driver who is always in more of a hurry than anyone else, these plebs are often causes of collisions or near misses. The leased VAG product in white, black or silver with bluetooth I tend to find the worst for 'fuck everyone else I have an important meeting at 9am'

And I don't think anyone would disagree with that

[vulgalour]

My initial thought was that he was drunk, and that I should get past before he causes an accident. So as I passed the van, I looked across at the driver. Twat was texting, with his eyes fixed downwards on his phone rather than the road.

Just as your car gets clear of theirs beep your horn. It's great watching them shit themselves in your mirrors as you pull in ahead of them.

[Andrew353w]

The M25 near me, from Jn 24-25 (Potters Bar to Enfield) is now 4 lanes with no hard shoulder but with 'refuge areas" every 2 miles. The result is that the traffic flow is much slower than it ever was before the "improvements" as vehicles invariably stop in the inside lane (that WAS the hard shoulder) because it's pretty hard to coast any vehicle a mile or so to the nearest refuge!

 

In addition, those true Autoshiters who can fix a car quickly on the hard shoulder, by say, topping up the radiator or pumping up a slow puncture need the hard shoulder to get up speed to merge safely back into the inside lane; what hope of doing this from a standing start, from a lay-by, with a 44 tonne Scania breathing down your tailgate??