Six Cylinders Motoring Notes

[DoctorRetro]

9 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

No. There is nothing in the actual legislation about 'two households only'. We are within the law.

I've just read the legislation document on the gov.uk website and sure enough, no mention of the 'two households' bit.

So the BBC website is talking bollocks. No wonder there is so much confusion... 

[Zelandeth]

Trevi update!

A slight problem generated by having fixed the vacuum leak found yesterday was that it had dropped the idle speed a touch - which given how badly the car was missing at idle resulted in there basically being a 50/50 chance of the engine stalling every time you came off the throttle.  I tweaked the idle speed up a little to compensate for this.  I need to look up the details for the carb to confirm that I've done that the correct way...but either way it worked and has stopped the stalling nonsense I had yesterday.

Here's the details of the carb, courtesy of my phone as I couldn't get my head into the necessary location to read this!

Hopefully those in the know will be able to confirm whether this is reasonably well suited to the car or not.

If that solenoid is meant to have a needle or other metering device attached to it I suspect that's going to be the source of our problem as it appears that the entire plunger assembly and whatever was once attached to it is missing.  This makes sense as the main jet side of things seems to be working just fine - when you give her some beans she picks up smoothly and especially at the top end feels nicely punchy as you'd expect from a Lancia TC engine.  It's just the idle that's screwed up.

I'm not going to delve too far into this issue as it's kind of beyond the scope of what I was planning on - but I'd like to be able to at least give an idea of what's going on for the final report I'll hand back with the car.  One key bit of information I wanted was to see whether she was overfuelling or underfuelling at idle.  Out with the gas analyser.

Well that won't be helping matters.  The red section on the gauge is the general range expected for carb fed engines...I have a sneaking feeling that the whole idle circuit is fouled up and it's running from dregs from the main jet.  Especially as adjusting what appears to be the idle fuel screw has absolutely zero effect on anything - so I put it right back where it started out and left it well alone.

It's obviously a fuel mixture issue as you CAN make the car idle smoothly by manually choking the carb with your hand (carefully).  She sounds really lovely then actually!  Is just starving for fuel if left to its own devices.

Unless when I look up the service/adjustment guide for the carb there's some blindingly obvious adjustment that I've missed I'm leaving this well alone and simply noting down "Carb needs attention" and leaving it at that.  She starts, drives, stops and doesn't stall every time you stop at a junction - basically back to how she was behaving when she arrived here.  Just with all the air now entering the engine via the carb rather than sneaking in through leaks.

 

Right...Enough faffing around with running issues I wasn't told to look into!  Onto lighting issues.

First one was a nice easy fix!

Dirty lamp holder contacts.  Sixty second fix.

Next up I needed to start pulling the dash to bits.

To be honest this has to be one of the easiest cars I've had to tackle a job like this on.  Half a dozen easily accessible screws and the whole face just lifts off the dash.

A further four release the panel which holds the warning lights and switchgear, likewise four release the instrument cluster. 

There's even bags of slack in the wiring harness and speedometer cable so disconnecting them is a doddle, and with the steering wheel adjustment dropped down to the lowest level it just lifts out.

Before I started on the instrumentation though I wanted to take a closer look at the heater air distribution controls, which I wasn't sure if had any provision for illumination.

Hey look a that!  It even highlights which mode it's in.

Neat.  That's one more thing ticked off then.

Dirty lampholder.

While peering at things back there I was able to confirm that the main swithgear was in fact lit by a single light source and fibre optics.  I'll dig my way in to that tomorrow and look to replace the lamp in it to see if we can get a bit more light out of them.

On to the dash proper.  Getting at a few of the lamps on that is a bit of a pain as Lancia decided that it would be smart to position the control module for the gauge pack on top of several of them.

So you have to unscrew that to get to four of the lamps.  Not the end of the world as it takes all of five minutes to remove and reattach, but it's still the sort of design decision that makes you roll your eyes a bit.

Doesn't this look a bit happier now?

Not bad illumination at all.

I did annoyingly managed to nudge the tripometer reset while I was manhandling the instruments in and out of the dash.  Luckily however I had taken precautions against that and noted down the reading before that.  If that reading is being used to track fuel economy, you need to add 34.2 miles to the reading.

In addition to the illumination, the fuel warning light apparently was also out beforehand, it now lights as part of the test sequence at startup.

What I didn't realise was that the car *knows* when there is a light out on the dash.  The big red warning light now lights up green when you turn the ignition on rather than red!

Shouldn't be a problem to get this finished and back together tomorrow then tackle the remaining to do/investigation list.

[] Investigate fibre optic illumination to see if there's any improvement to be made.

[] Investigate non-functioning rear fog lights.

[] Reassemble dash.

[] Attack a few key areas with Vactan.

[] Cooling system drain, flush and refill with proper coolant.

[] Get a proper photo for the Dash at Night thread.

Oh...Pretty sure I found all the necessary bits in the glove box to reassemble the lower heater vents on the dash as well so will put those back together before screwing the dash back together.

Have been quite enjoying getting to work on something new.

 

[Six-cylinder]

It is very strange sitting here reading the adventures of our Trevi!

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

It is very strange sitting here reading the adventures of our Trevi!

Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to get a couple of jobs done so I can provide the reports!  These are the sort of jobs I enjoy so I've been having a great time.

Just a shame I've not been able to come up with a quick solution to the horrible idle, would have been great to be able to hand it back running smoothly.  Sadly I suspect that the carb needs going over by someone who knows their secrets more in depth than I do.  Plus I'm not going to go poking it too much given that I don't want to immobilise the car!  It's annoying now, but that sounds like a job for over the winter when she's tucked away in storage.

[richardmorris]

11 hours ago, TheDoctor said:

I've just read the legislation document on the gov.uk website and sure enough, no mention of the 'two households' bit.

So the BBC website is talking bollocks. No wonder there is so much confusion... 

Well the gov.uk website says the same. different to the legislation.

 

What is changing?

, up to now the only ceiling set in law was 30 people. 

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

11 hours ago, TheDoctor said:

.... the BBC website is talking bollocks. ... 

Wouldn't be the first time 

[Yoss]

Aren't we all one big family anyway? ? Although family isn't the same as household I've just realised. Ah well, nice try. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

49 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Aren't we all one big family anyway? ? Although family isn't the same as household I've just realised. Ah well, nice try. 

At least you can self-isolate with the layout in your attic 

[Six-cylinder]

Last year my BMW 735i went to a local garage for service, MOT and look for the bomp, bomp noise from the rear because Hubnut was going to take it to Wales and my favourite garage were already doing a job for me. I got it back with a fresh MOT nothing found maybe it is the trim.

Today I have collected my 735i with a fresh MOT from my favourite garage and they had to change a rear shock absorber mounting as the centre had pulled out of it. Strange thing is there was a new top mounting in the boot and I can't remember who gave it to me.

I got a fright when I pulled in the take the picture at a Milton Keynes open space car park, as I drove along a row of cars parked in bays a small van started reversing out at me. Lots of horn and it stopped! 

[dozeydustman]

Given the recent government announcement, has BL day been cancelled? 

[Six-cylinder]

3 minutes ago, dozeydustman said:

Given the recent government announcement, has BL day been cancelled? 

I am waiting to hear.

[dozeydustman]

6 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

I am waiting to hear.

Okey dokey, if it's off am I still welcome to come up and tinker with something?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

18 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Trevi update!

......In addition to the illumination, the fuel warning light apparently was also out beforehand, it now lights as part of the test sequence at startup.

....

When I drove it, the fuel gauge swung wildly between half and empty as we went along. Has this rectified itself now?

[Andyrew]

3 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

Strange thing is there was a new top mounting in the boot and I can't remember who gave it to me.

Guilty as charged. 

 

 

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, Andyrew said:

Guilty as charged. 

Thank you. I was quizzed today as to why I already had a mount in the boot and it was a complete blank!

[Andyrew]

I thought it sounded like a top mount.  So ordered a febi one and chucked it the boot with the old rear number plate under the carpet.

Id thought about fitting it but then it looked like a pain and the noise went away after i had put the rear blind up so then i wasnt sure!

Glad it got sorted tho. 

[Zelandeth]

55 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

When I drove it, the fuel gauge swung wildly between half and empty as we went along. Has this rectified itself now?

Nope, it still bounces around all over the shop when moving.  Guessing there's a dead spot or two on the variable resistor track used by the gauge sender.

[Six-cylinder]

Just now, Andyrew said:

I thought it sounded like a top mount.  So ordered a febi one and chucked it the boot with the old rear number plate under the carpet.

Id thought about fitting it but then it looked like a pain and the noise went away after i had put the rear blind up so then i wasnt sure!

Glad it got sorted tho. 

My garage did complain bitterly about what a horrid job it was. They were very surprised to find it in there and I could not offer an explanation as to how it got there! 

Did I ever pay you for it?

[Andyrew]

4 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

My garage did complain bitterly about what a horrid job it was. They were very surprised to find it in there and I could not offer an explanation as to how it got there! 

Yeah it looked like one of those kind of jobs,  saved them having to track one down tho. It was the last one in stock from FPS and i had to call them to get it relayed from a branch up north. 

10 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Did I ever pay you for it?

A gift. 

 

[Six-cylinder]

Just now, Andyrew said:

Yeah it looked like one of those kind of jobs,  saved them having to track one down tho. It was the last one in stock from FPS and i had to call them to get it relayed from a branch up north. 

A gift. 

Thank you

[beko1987]

I bet your going to spend tomorrow opening all the boots of all the cars incase more new parts have been hidden... 

Or maybe the BMW just has magical powers. Quick, wish for something else it needs

[Yoss]

5 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

At least you can self-isolate with the layout in your attic 

That is turning epic, I must put some more stuff on the thread. It was my day off today and I must have been up and down the loft ladder about fifty times. More East German stuff keeps arriving in the post too. 

[Floatylight]

46 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I bet your going to spend all week opening all the boots of all the cars incase more new parts have been hidden... 

Or maybe the BMW just has magical powers. Quick, wish for something else it needs

FTFY!

[Mrs6C]

3 hours ago, dozeydustman said:

Okey dokey, if it's off am I still welcome to come up and tinker with something?

Of course!

[Talbot]

21 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

It's obviously a fuel mixture issue as you CAN make the car idle smoothly by manually choking the carb with your hand (carefully).  She sounds really lovely then actually!  Is just starving for fuel if left to its own devices.

One thing worth doing.  On these carbs (if it's anything like the ones I've worked on) there is a fuel gallery that runs between the two float chambers.  This is where the four jets and emulsion tubes pick up their fuel from, but it's also the lowest part of the carburettor, so always fills up with crud.  It also cannot be rodded through and is completely blind.

Well worth blatting it through with some compressed air, as they can build up some real shit in there over the years.  I had some awful running issues with a Fiat x1/9 with a similar twin sequential carburettor.  Took me ages to find the fault, but when I finally did blow that drilling through and a load of crap came flying out, it ran much better!

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, Yoss said:

...More East German stuff keeps arriving in the post too. 

I recently picked up a Gűtzold HO model of the DR Br.65 2-8-4T, so this can be compared with its DB equivalent 

[Zelandeth]

Part ...Three...I think of the Trevi Tales.

After a tip off supplied to Six-Cylinder from the garage who last worked on the car, the piston from the carb fuel shutoff solenoid was found.  Just!

A few miles more I'm sure that would have vanished through that scuttle drain and never been seen again.

With this fitted (bearing in mind that the solenoid coil is open circuit) unsurprisingly the car idles even worse.  So for now it's been stashed in the bag of "leftovers" which I've removed so far (in a separate labelled bag so it doesn't get binned accidentally!).

I'm not likely to be messing around much more with the carb on this visit, though I'm not saying she won't return in future for more mechanically centred tinkering one day but that's not the main focus of this one. 

 

The dash work was mostly done yesterday, I just needed to put it back together for the most part.  I did need to replace one part though, the stripped out screw from the instrument panel.  This was just a standard M6 thread so a bolt was roped in.  Some folks might consider this a bodge...but I didn't have a machine screw that big to hand, and it's not as though you can see it so it's good enough for me!

On the subject of the instrument panel etc...it's worth noting that this didn't actually end up being a bulb replacement project.  None of the bulbs were in the slightest blackened, and all but one of the failures it turned out were down to dirty lamp holders (three of which I had to replace).  The only blown lamp I found was in the fuel light, which was totally black and obviously dead.  Given how..."variable" the quality of modern lamps can be in a case like this where they all look fine I'll stick to the originals.  This usually winds up being the least hassle in the long run.  This is a pretty easy dash to get in to as well.

I had a look at the light source for the fibre optics (sorry, forgot to photograph that), and it looked like new and everything in there is properly seated and perfectly clean.  The switch illumination is just a bit dim when in the off position.  Putting a more powerful lamp in here is a bad, bad idea as it will just A: Melt the housing and B: Burn the tips of the fibres.  The only really practical way to get more light out of there is an LED conversion.  Something to come back to in the future.

Before I actually started putting the dash back together there were a few more things I wanted to check:

[] The lamps in the parking brake/rear fog light indicators as they don't work (they were fine - the issue is upstream).

[] To clean everything that the dash is normally in the way of the edges of.  The instrument panel in particular is awkward to clean normally as it's so deeply recessed.  Out with the Autoglym Fast Glass (which despite the name is also suitable for clear plastics).

All of the warning lights, buttons etc were also scrubbed up to get rid of the ring of decades old grime that was on them.  The heater air distribution control buttons in particular were absolutely caked.

[] Lower dash heater vents.  I found the vent grills for these in the glove box.  Turns out that there were several broken ones, one complete and one half broken vent in there...Because the design is stupid.  The whole lot hangs off a pair of spring clips which hold a LOT of tension on a tiny little plastic bridge. 

The one complete vent I put on with ONE rather than two spring clips, and using a bolt rather than the plastic clip setup allowed me to space it out a good deal further to massively reduce the amount of tension on it.

This should be absolutely fine so long as you don't have a five year old trying to pull the vent out of the dash.

The second one however was already half broken so I had to improvise a bit.

I've cable tied the "bridge" to the rod which connects the two parts of the vent direction fins together.  This means the vent can't now be fully closed...but given that the opposite is a gaping hole in the dash, it seems like an improvement to me.

Given a bit of time I don't doubt for a second that I could engineer a better solution than this...but this was the best I could come up with in half an hour and the fact of the matter is that it does the job.

The dash moulding was then absolutely drowned in Autoglym vinyl and rubber care and basically left to soak for half an hour.  In hindsight I should have really done this BEFORE I fitted the heater vent grills as it would have made it less fiddly...but meh!  It worked!

Then the fun bit...Reassembly.  I think this picture speaks for itself really with regards to how much the dash moulding was screaming "thank you!" for the treatment with the cleaning products...

The vent which can't be closed is the one on the passenger side - I figured giving the driver full control was the most important. 

The rev counter in particular used to be quite cloudy before it was cleaned.  Looks rather better now.

Oh, and the previously distinctly crusty heater controls.

Much better.

You can see the difference in the surface compared to the glove compartment lid.  The glove compartment isn't fully closed there by the way, that's why the lid is sitting at an angle.

Have another gratuitous Trevi dash warning light photo just because the design is so unique.

The real question however was whether once I'd screwed/bolted everything back together would all the lighting still work!

Drumroll please...

I'll take that!  Think she can have a proper entry in the Dash at Night thread now!

Wanted to get a wider shot with the ignition on so we could get the clock in shot too.

Really need to have a play around with the camera settings to see if I can get things like warnings lights to stop washing out so much.  Also obviously still need to address the bulb failure warning which also brings on the Big Red Light of Doom.

Would be rude not to get some close ups wouldn't it?

Right to left...

Sorry that one's a bit out of focus and there's some odd washout effects going on.

Even the power window switches are properly lit...I've not dared try the actual windows!

It bugs me these are lit white when everything else in the car is green.

Tomorrow's to do list.

[] Tail light bulb replacement & ground chasing.

[] Vactan.

[] Coolant flush.  Looks like we may need to re-seal the neck on the expansion bottle too - though given the state of the radiator I'm tempted to leave this be for now.  I'd rather have the system bleeding a bit of pressure off here than blowing the equalising line stub out of the radiator...

[] See if I can figure out why the rear fog lights don't work...Obvious candidate is the fuse box, given I've had to poke things in it half a dozen times so far.  Including to get the indicator on the dash for the sidelights to work...After I'd had the bulb out and checked it three times.

[] Interior cleanup.

[Six-cylinder]

Looking at the Speedo reading I can see the Trevi has done 189 miles since I have had it.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

I like the way the speedo and rev counter both point to "5" even when the car isn't running. 

[richardmorris]

2 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I like the way the speedo and rev counter both point to "5" even when the car isn't running. 

So sleek, it's moving when standing still!