Effing 4x4s

[Bren]

I have had no problem with FWD diesel engined cars in the snow.

 

Heavy engine + lots of low down torque = no need to spin wheels.

 

Drivers in Scandinavia get around with out the need for a 4 x 4.

[wuvvum]

 

My parents had a Mitsubishi L200 4x4 for a while, it was more predictable to drive in RWD in the snow, 4x4 made for dangerous understeer.

My Frontera was exactly the same.

 

I don't know if I'm going to get the chance to try out the Forester in snow this winter, but my guess is that it'll be rubbish.  If I wasn't so worried about the Innocenti rusting away completely, I'd invest in a couple of snow tyres for that - I reckon it'd be brilliant, no weight, no power and skinny little tyres are usually a good combination.

[brickwall]

Wide tyres wouldn't help the Merc. I once overtook an AMG 55SL thing on a snowy hill in my Peugeot 306. I had to have two attempts (the first one lacked momentum due to having to swerve around the Merc), but got there. 

 

Anyway, perhaps I'll just leave this here...

 

 

I rest my case with that post DW

 

This is how it's done:

 

[Parky]

 

i've had this on winter tyres for 2 years now and not seen a sniff of the white stuff.

And to be fair with only 80 horse power i think it would probably be better anyway on its skinny 155 section m+s tyres than these 195's

Hey, a Scimitar! Princess Anne etc etc etc

[jakebullet]

Stuck disco 2 prolly has the 3 amigos on, and so no traction control.

 

Every year I say I'm going to connect up the diff lock on mine, in the hope decent tyres + diff lock + electronics = movement. Every year I can't be arsed. I do have the appropriate sized spanner in the locker so could crawl under and engage in an emergency.

[oman5]

I lived in Merthyr Tydfil up in the Welsh valleys for 5 years. Which meant particularly nasty winters for the South of the UK. We ran a P plate Subaru Justy 1.3 AWD.

Even on normal all season tyres, it resolutely refused to get stuck, ever, only sending power to the back wheels when the fronts lost traction. Yeah, you can't go off-roading or tow other stuck vehicles, but it just showed that you really don't need a massive fuck off 4x4 for general get you home whatever the weather duties.

Plus, smugly sailing past stuck fast beemers worth fifty times more was priceless. I sold it after 5 years for the same price I paid, and it's still going.

[scruff]

Justys are ace!! 

 

My old landy is pretty good in the snow, it doesn't weigh much and has nice skinny grippy boots on it. 

[Junkman]

There once was a delightfully chequer plate free Series 1 OLLI with a 2.5 Daimler Hemi V8 on Ebay.

Usually not too keen on cars for the horsey bunch, this gave even me a moist crotch.

That, or a DKW Munga.

[chaseracer]

Diesel Blingo, decent tyres.  Haven't got stuck yet.

 

Bet the 205 would be all right too 

[dollywobbler]

My Frontera was exactly the same.

 

I don't know if I'm going to get the chance to try out the Forester in snow this winter, but my guess is that it'll be rubbish.  If I wasn't so worried about the Innocenti rusting away completely, I'd invest in a couple of snow tyres for that - I reckon it'd be brilliant, no weight, no power and skinny little tyres are usually a good combination.

 

Both the Frontera and L200 lack a centre diff, so they will have a reluctance to go around bends when four-wheel drive is selected. That's why I dislike part-time four-wheel drive. You'll probably find that the Forester isn't too bad depending on how wide the tyres are. My Legacy was fine, because it had a centre diff and permo four-wheel drive.

[twosmoke300]

Permo 4wd and centre diff =1wd . discuss

[dollywobbler]

Permo 4wd and centre diff =1wd . discuss

 

Yes, this is possible. Unless you're waving wheels in the air though or getting crossaxled, it isn't really a problem. Certainly, it was never a problem in my Legacy. Even with a centre diff lock, you can still effectively only have 2wd due to the open diffs front and rear, which is why I did occasionally wish my Disco had a limited slip or lockable rear.

[mat_the_cat]

This is the only reasonable snow we've had this year, and it's interesting to notice the reaction of some people is just to hit the brakes and come to a stop if the car in front is having trouble.

 

 

I'm no snow expert, but it seems to me that slushy wet snow is more slippery than dry powder - anyone else noticed this? Best smug moment was last year in the Alps, when we came across an XC90 trying to climb a small hill. After sitting behind him for a few minutes watching the technique of '4x4 & foot to the floor' not working, we couldn't help grinning as we did a hill start and drove round him in a tatty old Focus!

[dollywobbler]

Yup. The slush we had last Tuesday was horrendous. Even with winter tyres (and four of them on the driven axle) I could get the Sprinter I was driving to spin-up. Mind you, the Sprinter van that pulled up next to me to warn me of road closures could barely get moving again, while I just pulled away with no bother! People on summer tyres just couldn't get out of our village, as it's uphill in all directions. 

 

Mind you, half an hour later and it had all pretty much gone.

[forddeliveryboy]

Ma DS20's previous wheels, a 1994 E220 estate, was hopeless on snow or ice.  It went sideways rather than forwards, and if there was any camber on the road, the driver was stuffed.  Gutter / ditch, here we come.  I reckon the automatic gearbox and lack of weight over the back (driven) wheels really came together to wonderful* effect in that car.  

 

Must have been the tyres, unless the suspension was stuffed with no travel at the back. Perhaps the little engine didn't like snow, was it a revvy 16 valve thing? Those I've used in snow have been very relaxing and totally unruffled.

 

I drove across Europe in heavy snow in a 300TD and the only cars which were travelling briskly were Saabs, old Citroens, 124 Mercs and the odd Subaru.The CXs were still fairly common but most memorable was a GSa with a couple of nuns in. We couldn't keep up with them without taking the car to speeds at which it began to lose composure because the rear wheels were having to push too hard - they had a considerable edge through faster corners, especially where there were larger undulations. We saw them in a motorway stop hours later and I almost went up to them to congratulate them on their driving! What surprised me was that even in BMW-land they had a false idea of how good the Bavarian machines were - the hard shoulders and ditches were littered with them at times.

 

Fascinating how America and Britain wax lyrical about 4x4s, I think it has far more to do with the social perceptions than vehicle ability for the majority, although it is enjoyable to be able to see over walls and into fields. Having said that, I do have a very soft spot for early Discoveries and the 2 door RR. I loved the comparison with Jordan and Penelope Keith - very true.

[dugong]

No, it was probably the spazzy organ stop throttle that W124s have. They're either bearable or miles out of adjustment (if they are even adjustable). You can have no power, or everything the engine's got so the autobox kicks down and you fishtail out of junctions with the inside tyre ablaze. Just what you need on greasy roads. Bolt upright accelerator pedals are rather tiresome. Sorry Mo. 

 

I took my MGF up north to see family and didn't get stuck, and that's a back to front Metro shunned by concert pianists! Perish the thought. 

[twosmoke300]

You did well to move at all in a sprinter DW . My works one wouldn't move if you parked on 2 crisp packets .

[steve_earwig]

LOL at the Honda, no wonder they aren't doing so well these days when their products are shit

I enjoyed Honda's response:

 

The Honda AWD system uses a compact, lightweight and fuel-efficient rear differential. Blah blah blah... If all the available torque required to move the vehicle forward would be transferred to the rear differential then the limit for the torque of the unit would be exceeded.

Ah, so basically, in the interests of saving weight you made the rear diff too weak and feeble to hande the amount of torque needed to get the car moving. Brilliant.

 

If the vehicle continues to run in this state (the front wheels spinning and the rear wheels standing still) the system senses the high speed variation and that the differential clutch slips and reduces the available torque to the rear wheels to prevent overheating. That is why the vehicle moves backward in the video.

I don't really understand what that shit means, the only bit I'm getting there is if you're trying to drive over ice going up a hill and the front wheels start spinning, the car might actually start driving backwards. You should get an award for that.

[dollywobbler]

You did well to move at all in a sprinter DW . My works one wouldn't move if you parked on 2 crisp packets .

 

Helps that it's a minibus, with a lift slung out behind the rear axle, but also very keenly demonstrates the advantages of winter tyres. In a similar story, we used to rent a second gen VW LT from the council. Being cheapskates, they only put winter tyres on the rear! But, it allowed me to get past an Audi A4 after a hailstorm. The Audi was just sat there spinning its wheels. I had no loss of traction at all. Stopping was another matter! We don't rent buses anymore and fit winter tyres to every wheel.

[sutty2006]

Newer range rovers get stuck on flat grass....... but the driver doesnt help the situation. Nor do the tyres.

 

 

My ambulance doesnt get stuck in anything. It has road tyres on, but because they are thin and it weighs 2.6 ton, it will plough through anything in 2wd.

 

[twosmoke300]

Please refrain from posting pics of series Land Rovers , its gonna hurt my bank balance.

[Matt]

I'm no snow expert, but it seems to me that slushy wet snow is more slippery than dry powder - anyone else noticed this?

 

I think this is one reason Northern Europeans can deal with these conditions much better than we can. A relative told me of a time they were visiting friends in Northern Europe and he told me it took him about two days of being a passenger with the locals driving before he stopped panicking & reaching for the brake pedal that wasn't in front of him while they just drove around as if there was no snow at all.

[HH-R]

Had no snow here, though my street was sheet black ice this morning (not gritted). Nearly went on my arse with my ditchfinder hardest plastic known to man with no grip soled dress shoes, but the roads were absolutely fine... still been stuck behind people doing 15 MPH in 30 zones for days (might just be a coincidence, the standard of driving here is hopeless)

 

My friend has crashed her Cashcow into a Puke by skidding on snow at low speed a bit further inland, given my love* for both vehicles I wasn't sure whether to send congratulations or condolenses (after checking she was ok, I'm not that heartless).

[Rusty_Rocket]

Please refrain from posting pics of series Land Rovers , its gonna hurt my bank balance.

 

I find they hurt my back and right elbow before I get a chance to actually spend money on them   

[Vin]

I think this is one reason Northern Europeans can deal with these conditions much better than we can. A relative told me of a time they were visiting friends in Northern Europe and he told me it took him about two days of being a passenger with the locals driving before he stopped panicking & reaching for the brake pedal that wasn't in front of him while they just drove around as if there was no snow at all.

 

I noticed this when I watched this video of a truck driver going to Sweden and back to do a drop...The motorway/Autobahn footage is interesting as the traffic appears to be oblivious to there being any snow...

 

'LCD Soundsystem' as the soundtrack too. Nice.

 

[DS20]

I find they hurt my back and right elbow before I get a chance to actually spend money on them   

 

 

U r using cash machinez wrong, in that case  

[Lacquer Peel]

Both the Frontera and L200 lack a centre diff, so they will have a reluctance to go around bends when four-wheel drive is selected. That's why I dislike part-time four-wheel drive.

 

The Sprinter 4x4 we have at work gets around this with a 35/65 front/rear split.

 

What's the centre diff setup like on simpler Subarus, is it similar to a Torsen diff or something simpler?

[andy18s]

I think this is one reason Northern Europeans can deal with these conditions much better than we can. A relative told me of a time they were visiting friends in Northern Europe and he told me it took him about two days of being a passenger with the locals driving before he stopped panicking & reaching for the brake pedal that wasn't in front of him while they just drove around as if there was no snow at all.

During my week in Lapland just before Xmas I was amazed at the pace all the traffic was whizzing around,within the limits of course

Everything from a Smart coupe,through the tourist coaches and Hgv's were only fitted fitted with winter tyres and obviously very skilled drivers

[dollywobbler]

The Sprinter 4x4 we have at work gets around this with a 35/65 front/rear split.

 

What's the centre diff setup like on simpler Subarus, is it similar to a Torsen diff or something simpler?

 

Just a completely open diff I think.

[twosmoke300]

I thought the old ones were selectable 4wd with no centre diff. Whatever they use its bloody good