Cars you didn't know existed until very recently.

[Inspiral_Mondays]

Never seen this one before, a Ford Granada Mk2 1.7L, Dutch market special for those not in a hurry, with 1.7 litre V4 power and plastic seats to complete the sack cloth and ashes vibe. The one below is for sale.

https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ford-granada-1-7-l-station-gasoline-beige-e87c2ba2-7b45-f132-e053-e350040a49d7?utm_source=ios-share&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=share

[Austat]

Vauxhall Sports Hatch Concept 1 from 1973:

 

[lesapandre]

[NorfolkNWeigh]

 

 

We all know about Uren Savage Cortinas, some of us also were aware of the various Escort and Capri 2.0, 3.0 and 5.7 litre conversions known as Apache, Navajo and Stampede. What I, for one, was unaware of were the Weslake headed and fuel injected  Consuls and Granadas.

These were known as Senecas, presumably there’s a Native American tribe Of this name, rather than after the a Roman philosopher! I came across these in a 1974 What Car ? price list. At first I assumed they were 351 V8s in the style of Basil Green’s  Perana, but if so the prices were unbelievably low- within £10 of the Consul GT, Granada XL Estate or Ghia Saloon they were based on. I’ve since found one reference to the injected and Weslake headed 3.0 and that makes more sense- although why they were so cheap is still odd, maybe Uren was getting cars with a massive fleet discount. The other mystery is why there weren’t loads of them around , 190 bhp as opposed to 138 and in some cases they were listed as cheaper than the standard car!

There was also a Transit Easydrive , which was a 3.0 and Cortina Cheetah which was a 2.5 V6 in a 1600 L , I found an ad which showed a 1300L , but presumabl it was never converted because it was still a 1300 when it was scrapped in 1984- not sure who would want a basic Cortina with a 2.5 , caravan era maybe?

Anyway, does anybody know anything about these Senecas and why they didn’t take over the big car market?

[bunglebus]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

FB_IMG_1588921795557 by RS, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1588921786100 by RS, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1588921790865 by RS, on Flickr

[Inspiral_Mondays]

1 hour ago, bunglebus said:

FB_IMG_1588921795557 by RS, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1588921786100 by RS, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1588921790865 by RS, on Flickr

I remember seeing pictures of this in a magazine as a teenager, it left an impression in my formative years. It‘s the Michelin Centipede and was used by Michelin to do high speed testing on their tyres. The tyre testing rig is in the middle of the car. I think the engine is at the back.

[Austat]

3 hours ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

 

 

We all know about Uren Savage Cortinas, some of us also were aware of the various Escort and Capri 2.0, 3.0 and 5.7 litre conversions known as Apache, Navajo and Stampede. What I, for one, was unaware of were the Weslake headed and fuel injected  Consuls and Granadas.

These were known as Senecas, presumably there’s a Native American tribe Of this name, rather than after the a Roman philosopher! I came across these in a 1974 What Car ? price list. At first I assumed they were 351 V8s in the style of Basil Green’s  Perana, but if so the prices were unbelievably low- within £10 of the Consul GT, Granada XL Estate or Ghia Saloon they were based on. I’ve since found one reference to the injected and Weslake headed 3.0 and that makes more sense- although why they were so cheap is still odd, maybe Uren was getting cars with a massive fleet discount. The other mystery is why there weren’t loads of them around , 190 bhp as opposed to 138 and in some cases they were listed as cheaper than the standard car!

There was also a Transit Easydrive , which was a 3.0 and Cortina Cheetah which was a 2.5 V6 in a 1600 L , I found an ad which showed a 1300L , but presumabl it was never converted because it was still a 1300 when it was scrapped in 1984- not sure who would want a basic Cortina with a 2.5 , caravan era maybe?

Anyway, does anybody know anything about these Senecas and why they didn’t take over the big car market?

I knew about the Stampedes but didn't know about the Capris and Escorts that they did.

That RS 2000 advert looks interesting.

[sheffcortinacentre]

There's pics of a turbocharged MK1 Granada in the Capri book by Jeremy Walton.

Race proved did 302 V8 engined MK4 Zcars but the Granada would've required & one off sump/ pickup pipe & the oil crisis was looming.

Jeff was a clever guy when it came to costing. The 2.5 cheetah was a lower cost offering ( probably to use some of the engines they had).

They mainly only had to buy the V8 & some of the V6 engines.

As the ones removed where fitted in the other conversions the V6's into cortina,escort & transit.

The 2.0 ohc & 1.6 xflows went into escorts,the V4's & 1.1/1.3 xflows were sold on all helping keep the costs down.

The other two companies involved in this sort of stuff where crayford who did some 3.0 mk2 Cortina conversions & superspeed who did mk2 & MK3 V6 swaps, broadspeed did some 302V8 Capri's &  warmed over 3.0 Capri's but got more into turbocharging amongst there more common ones being A series manta's 3.0 V6 fords & in the later 70's ford 2.0 ohc's.

I believe they tried a 240z & possibly a dolly sprint.

[Richard_FM]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:10 PM, bunglebus said:

Carbodies CR6. Range Rover panels, Land Rover engine, Ital lights and SD1 running gear. Not a great success.

 

I remember this being featured on the perpetual motion about the fx4 - showing how hard it was to replace.  
 

The Metrocab did a similar parts bin raid at Ford with a mk2 Granada grille and Mk3 Escort estate rear lights.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

10 hours ago, sheffcortinacentre said:

There's pics of a turbocharged MK1 Granada in the Capri book by Jeremy Walton.

Race proved did 302 V8 engined MK4 Zcars but the Granada would've required & one off sump/ pickup pipe & the oil crisis was looming.

Jeff was a clever guy when it came to costing. The 2.5 cheetah was a lower cost offering ( probably to use some of the engines they had).

They mainly only had to buy the V8 & some of the V6 engines.

As the ones removed where fitted in the other conversions the V6's into cortina,escort & transit.

The 2.0 ohc & 1.6 xflows went into escorts,the V4's & 1.1/1.3 xflows were sold on all helping keep the costs down.

The other two companies involved in this sort of stuff where crayford who did some 3.0 mk2 Cortina conversions & superspeed who did mk2 & MK3 V6 swaps, broadspeed did some 302V8 Capri's &  warmed over 3.0 Capri's but got more into turbocharging amongst there more common ones being A series manta's 3.0 V6 fords & in the later 70's ford 2.0 ohc's.

I believe they tried a 240z & possibly a dolly sprint.

I remember an article in one of the weeklies in about 1975 about a Broadspeed Turbo Comsul GT ( or maybe Granada 3.0S ) Police car. Can’t remember any details though- I was 11 and read it at the barbers!
Also a test, unusually in Custom Car , of an RS2000 Turbo in 1979ish.

Me and a mate got hold of a turbo set up years ago, that we tried to fit to a 2.0 Escort, it had an SU , if I remember correctly. What I do remember is the fire when one of us got anti-freeze on the manifold ! Gave up with it and flogged the turbo stuff on. That Escort went on to get a Rover V8 auto , before finally being put out of its misery by my brother putting it on a roundabout backwards and ripping the back axle out.

[DSdriver]

By Mic from Reading - Berkshire, United Kingdom - Paris, France, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=54294227

This showed up in my YouTube suggestions 

 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

1 hour ago, DSdriver said:

By Mic from Reading - Berkshire, United Kingdom - Paris, France, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=54294227

This showed up in my YouTube suggestions 

 

There was one in the eBay Tat Thread a couple of weeks ago , pretty sure it was in this country too.

[DSdriver]

Although I do look at Ebay Tat every time I view the forum I seem to have missed that.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

47 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

Although I do look at Ebay Tat every time I view the forum I seem to have missed that.

Sorry,  my mistake it was the Low cost Big liability thread in the modern section. Pg 335

Posted by @The Vicar

 

The modern thread is a bit ambiguously named , I think the initial idea was for cars newer than 10 years old, it sort of means anything this century now. So don’t dismiss it as Pistonheads Lite or something.

[jumpingjehovahs]

Looks very familiar, but this one is a 4.1 straight 6 sold in Brazil as the Chevrolet Omega Suprema. This ones a 1995 so must be one of the last, has only 21000 miles and comes with the very rare digital dash and sunroof.

[chaseracer]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:19 AM, Inspiral_Mondays said:

I remember seeing pictures of this in a magazine as a teenager, it left an impression in my formative years. It‘s the Michelin Centipede and was used by Michelin to do high speed testing on their tyres. The tyre testing rig is in the middle of the car. I think the engine is at the back.

Engines, plural.  Two Chevrolet 454ci big-block V8s... ??

[Snipes]

19 minutes ago, jumpingjehovahs said:

Looks very familiar, but this one is a 4.1 straight 6 sold in Brazil as the Chevrolet Omega Suprema. This ones a 1995 so must be one of the last, has only 21000 miles and comes with the very rare digital dash and sunroof.

I'm going to hazard a guess and say a Chevy 4.1 makes less power than the 12v straight six we got.

[jumpingjehovahs]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say a Chevy 4.1 makes less power than the 12v straight six we got.

168bhp in the 4.1 and 175 in the Carlton 3000, not a huge deficit but enough


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[Adrian_pt]

Thought I was pretty up to speed on most stuff sold in Europe after the war - turns out every day is a school day. WOULD, incidentally.

[lesapandre]

It's a Spanish market Merc van constructed in Spain to get round high import duties? 

[Volksy]

I believe that they are an ex DKW/Auto Union Design. As I Remember in Spain some had MB badges and some the Audi four rings.

 

 

[martc]

1 hour ago, Adrian_pt said:

Thought I was pretty up to speed on most stuff sold in Europe after the war - turns out every day is a school day. WOULD, incidentally.

It's a Mercedes N1300 made by in Spain by IMOSA (Industrias del Motor SA) made between 1963 and 1986 - so why didn't we all see them when we used to go on holiday to Spain?

 Phun phact, and equally obscure, it was based on the DKW-IMOSA F1000; it was also called the Auto-Union F1000. Imagine turning up at your local Aldi dealer in one of these -

You've just been nicked by the Style Police.

[barrett]

Those are my favourite vans ever (maybe the Taunus Transit just pips it, actually). The thinking man's Barkas! It's been too long since I drove a DKW...

[lesapandre]

A few for sale in Spain. Mostly 3-5000€. 

[Volksy]

There are so many oddball badge engineered Vans in Spain. 

The BMC J4 got recycled as the SAVA/Pegaso J4

The Alfa Romeo F12 became the EBRO F100

Ford Trader and D series trucks were also made and badged as EBRO

Obviously the above DKW/Mercedes combo

My favourite has always been the EBRO F275, Later sold, even over here, as the Nissan Trade. An early one with the quad lamps and hinged side door for me please!

[Richard_FM]

16 minutes ago, Volksy said:

There are so many oddball badge engineered Vans in Spain. 

The BMC J4 got recycled as the SAVA/Pegaso J4

The Alfa Romeo F12 became the EBRO F100

Ford Trader and D series trucks were also made and badged as EBRO

Obviously the above DKW/Mercedes combo

My favourite has always been the EBRO F275, Later sold, even over here, as the Nissan Trade. An early one with the quad lamps and hinged side door for me please!

I got the impression that there were some high import taxes during Franco's time so manufacturers used to have to find ways round them, importing CKD kits then assembling them in Spain was common.

[martc]

On 5/14/2020 at 1:28 PM, Richard_FM said:

I got the impression that there were some high import taxes during Franco's time so manufacturers used to have to find ways round them, importing CKD kits then assembling them in Spain was common.

That's true - high import tariffs and quotas were applied to cars (and other manufactured goods) by the Franco regime. This explains the origins of the large car industry in Spain today - all the major manufacturers wanted a share of the market and the only way to do this was to build a factory there.

Joint ventures with a local manufacturer were actively encouraged egs include the famous union of FIAT with SEAT, IMOSA with DKW etc as seen above and FASA  (Fabricación de Automóviles Sociedad Anónima de Valladolid) with Renault. It wasn't all CKD's though - there were some home made designs as well eg the famous FASA Renault 7 as seen in this parish.

India and Brazil's colourful motor vehicle histories have the same fiscal background.

[Richard_FM]

The Renault 7s did get sold much outside of Spain but the doors were the same as the 5 door 5s.

[Richard_FM]

Even the Americans got in on the act with the Dodge 3700GT assembled in Spain.

Many of these were used as official cars by the government.

Some were brought to the UK for use in the filming of Batman.

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_16572-Dodge-3700-GT-1972.html

Some more information on the link, especially the posts by someone involved with the filming. 

[Remspoor]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:35 PM, Richard_FM said:

Even the Americans got in on the act with the Dodge 3700GT assembled in Spain.

Many of these were used as official cars by the government.

Some were brought to the UK for use in the filming of Batman.

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_16572-Dodge-3700-GT-1972.html

Some more information on the link, especially the posts by someone involved with the filming. 

Those cars were KNK from Argentina fitted a lot were fitted with diesel engines.

Spanish WIKI

The English version lacks a lot of information.