what is it with some garages and being rude

[richardmorris]

  On 25/08/2014 at 07:10, Corsaviour said:

I have to be honest, Richard, if you turned up to buy a car at a garage I worked at and quoted Parker's, I'd probably have several asthma attacks from laughing.

 

When I worked at the car auctions and people turned up clutching PG, you could almost smell the blood as they got surrounded by sharks.

 

 

Didn't quote it to start with, and wasn't even expecting it as a figure, but offering less than 1/3 retail while trying to sell paint and fabric protection for £500 was just rude. Just  mentioned them among others - including glass's which was about the same give or take a hundred I think.  Anyway if they don't want my money and are rude I'm very happy to go elsewhere   - there's no shortage of 2nd hand cars. Since the trade is so arsey about glass then the public really only have parkers and autotrader for an idea of prices.  My glass guide for Jan 2010 puts a 52 reg C5 at £1500 trade in and £2850 retail - two years after I was talking to the dealer who was offering £1k -to quote Arfur Daley - he was taking liberties.

 

I'm the same with work - air products were being difficult on Helium delivery - would only supply 1 bottle out of four I'd ordered (£500 each) saying I'd have to wait 6 months to order the next one. Told them if they did that I'd be out of business, they said that's their policy. So I phoned BOC, opened an account and placed an order with them for £10K. There are always options, customers should not be taken for granted and we will walk away if you piss us off.

[Cavcraft]

And that's exactly it, we can always walk away if we don't think we're being treated right. There's a bike shop not too far from here that people rave about, yet the few times I've been in they've tried to stitch me up with something more than I told them my budget was set at, or told me stuff was in stock when it wasn't.

Also they become seriously uninterested in customer service if you're not there to spend shit loads of money, so I won't darken their door step again.

[Mr Lobster]

The AC branch I worked at tended to restrict test drives to people who were actually genuine otherwise salesmen wasted a lot of time giving test drives to people who wanted just to try something out or who had no chance / ability to purchase the thing anyway and wouldn't have bee able to finance a cup of tea never mind a car.

Worked for Evans Halshaw for bit and the sales process was horrific - behind the showroom they had a dozen 'deal rooms' the idea being that the prospective customer had their car keys taken off them so that the p/x could be appraised whilst they were given the very hard sell and generally didn't get their keys back until they either gave up and bought something or very strongly requested their keys back.

 

Last time I bought from a dealership was a couple of years ago with our Mazda. They had a 'make offer' thing on their website and I made what I considered too be a very cheeky offer on the car. Couple of days later they range me and I explained that if the car was as described and I'm happy after a test drive then I'd buy it. When we went down to agree everything they did try the full paint protection / GAP / finance thing but no massive pressure and I told them I wasn't interested and they left it at that.  Made the process relatively painless.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  On 25/08/2014 at 07:10, Corsaviour said:

I have to be honest, Richard, if you turned up to buy a car at a garage I worked at and quoted Parker's, I'd probably have several asthma attacks from laughing.

 

When I worked at the car auctions and people turned up clutching PG, you could almost smell the blood as they got surrounded by sharks.

 

Indeed. I'd see them at Witney Auctions, complete with wife'n'kids, taking far too much interest in some old Cavalier/Sierra/Primera etc and utterly oblivious to the trader who entered it 'bidding' against them.

[HMC]

Bought a cheap as chips part ex clearance w124 merc from a citroen main dealer on e bay in (iirc) Stroud, Gloucestershire a few years back. I went in with a grubby envelope of banknotes in hand yet was treated really courteously, with the sense that I could have been picking up a new car. Would I like a coffee? How many sugars? Etc etc etc

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  On 25/08/2014 at 10:53, Pete-M said:

I worked as a sales droid for Ian Skellys for a while in the mid 90s. It was the most stressful, depressing mind-fuck of a job I've had in the motor trade.

 

Every morning there would be a sales meeting where the whole sales team would be bawled at by the sales manager "30 sales each this month or you're leaving us. Customers are making it onto the pitch without being welcomed within 20 seconds, there's a failure to close deals as the sales team aren't engaging customers. If you see a customer who's not with a salesman get involved, steal the sale".

 

There's nothing the sales managers there wouldn't stoop to. Ringing people who visited the parts department five years ago to try and sell them a car was a weekly thing. Lists of thousands of people who'd bought car parts were regularly brought out so on a wet Sunday you'd have to go through every number and write down the responses. Of course, they'd record the calls and then once every couple of weeks you'd be sent to talk to the marketing experts "when you rang this guy you asked him three open questions, that's not how you're meant to call people, you're meant to be closing deals not giving people room to hang up.".

 

Fucking ridiculous state of affairs. You can't ring someone up out of the blue and pressure sell them a new VW, ffs. That's what they expected.

 

The finance side of it is often the only way the salesman can be guaranteed his commission. Skellys sales managers used to regularly adjust commission earned on cars to try and screw the sales team out of money they'd earned - that's how utterly sharky they were in the mid 90s. In the morning they'd declare that, for example, a Polo sold was £50 commission, there'd be £5 for mats, £5 for mud flaps, £10 for an alarm upgrade and similar amounts for various upgrades or options. There'd be £100 bonus if you could sell the hideous Kermit Green 1.0 5 door "open air" that was proving impossible to shift.

 

At the end of the month the rates for all the extras would mysteriously be cancelled if you hit the sales target for cars moved. The grand earned for options and accessories would be cancelled for some spurious bullshit reason "You beat your target but the team as a whole didn't so we're not paying for extras this month and your target is being raised from 30 to 33 cars".

 

This meant that instead of taking home a good wage you were earning less than the parts delivery driver who didn't have to be in 12 hours a day, six days a week.

 

The only useful experience to be gained working there was the ability to spot a slimy shifty bullshitting sales cunt at 200 metres, and know exactly how to deal with them.

 

That sounds about right. At Stratstone's (BM-fucking-W) we had to cold call customers for an hour after work twice a week. So some poor sod's just come in from work and they've got me on the phone FFS. It was just embarrassing - the sales manager hated it it, but we were told by the Gods of Pendragon to do it and what they don't know about fucking up a good business isn't worth knowing.

Used car guys like me had so sell three new cars every quarter - not a major problem as I'd just sell what was in the showroom at a very good price. But BMW GB had a list of six questions to ask the buyer and if you didn't get 6/6 on every one, you'd lose your £1500 bonus. One of the best sales guys there sold a new X3 to a customer who didn't want a test drive as their Son in law had one and they knew exactly what they were like. He lost his 1500 quid, they wouldn't budge and he walked, first to Mercedes and now Audi where he does very well. A pack of cunts works there now, all 26 y.o type smartarse wankers in tight fitting shirts/suits and spiky hair who think its some kind of honour to sell pseudo prestige shit on finance to braindead morons from a dealership where they have the banners outside "1 SERIES FROM £295 PER MONTH" so it looks like a branch of Carcraft.

 

Oh, and I was mystery shopped by BMW GB, and I am (or was) featured on their training film as an example of how to do it. Not that I'm boasting, like.

[twosmoke300]

^^^ that reminds me . Im pretty sure I still hold the highest phone mystery shop score at Honda uk. 97%

 

It did help that the guy on the switchboard said " I think youve got a mystery shop here " as he handed it over so I grabbed the cribsheet and asked every single question we were supposed to.

[Cavcraft]

Actually, that reminds me, when I bought that cheap 205 from the Peugeot dealer in Crewe a couple of months back, they were really great to deal with.

[inconsistant]

  On 25/08/2014 at 13:39, Richard said:

Could you explain what the Pendle system is?

 

'Manage the sales funnel" ...sounds like a euphemism. Fnarr etc.

[richardmorris]

I gave the parts dept. at merc ascot my details a while ago when I ordered a new relay - now I have weekly email updates about their stock.

No intrusive phone calls yet though.

 

I'm all for people making a good stab at their job, but that includes being polite and listening to the customer. The customer is not always right, but is still the one with the money.

 

In the words of AbsolutelyFabulous - "you can drop the attitude, you just work here - I can afford to shop here".

[Pete-M]

I'm pretty sure Pendragon owned Skellys when I was there.

 

I've worked for other main dealers who've not used Pendle type systems and they were much nicer places to work. I got better results there and the customers tended to return to buy more cars and they'd recommends friends.

 

Working at Skellys was enough to put me off working in car sales for good. I walked out of there in '97 and have avoided the temptation to work in car sales since. Did a few months for a Nissan dealership around 2000 and haven't had any interest since.

 

I always fancied having a sales pitch but when the trade is tainted by people who really don't give a toss about the customer something is massively wrong with how the trade works.

[chaseracer]

Like Richard, I made the mistake of giving my email address to the Merc dealer in Stafford.  I was clearly buying small parts for a W124, but many emails followed inviting me to avail myself of "exclusive dealer events" and "incredible finance offers" on a new Mercedes.

 

Easily sorted by a click on the 'unsubscribe' option, but..... complete waste of time, chaps! 

[gdhaydock]

Never bought a car from a main dealer, but have had various leased company cars for the last 12 years so have dealt with various service departments with a mixed bag of results.

 

Evan Halshaw Ford, Manchester - Rude and useless, didn't notice 2 failed headlights on a service or a turbo leaking oil

Renault, Manchester - Polite and friendly, but useless

Skoda, Leeds - Pretty good, but a bit lethargic with a warranty claim 1000 miles short of the warranty expiring

JCT600 Mazda, Leeds - Worst of the lot, staff that wouldn't even talk to you, apparently a leaking sunroof isn't a warranty item (car 8 months old at the time)

Halifax VW - Best of the lot, not owned by a massive corporation, friendly service, always assist properly with warranty work, always do what they say they will.

 

As all of the above cars have been on full maintenance leases, I can't comment on how much of a dry-bum-rape the pricing structure was though

[Cheggers]

  On 25/08/2014 at 19:16, inconsistant said:

'Manage the sales funnel" ...sounds like a euphemism. Fnarr etc.

Like it or not, "pipeline management" is just part of sales. Doesn't matter whether it's second-hand cars or multi-million pound business software projects (which my guys do...). Thankfully the high-pressure greed-is-good mentality has been replaced with a more consultative approach in most industries, generally with positive effects.

 

Sadly, the motor trade does still attract the shiny suited, spiky haired types, often in their first sales role.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[richardmorris]

  On 26/08/2014 at 10:24, Cheggers said:

Sadly, the motor trade does still attract the shiny suited, spiky haired types, often in their first sales role.

 

 

 

You forgot about the pointy shoes.

[Pete-M]

I collected a car from Motorpoint in Birmingham a couple of months ago.

 

I was surprised by how well sorted their system is. Salesman does the deed and they have different people to deal with everything else - hand over, after sales etc.

 

Ok. It's not good for getting to know the people who sell you your car but it seems ideal if you're one of the great unwashed that just wants a virtually new car for rather a lot less than list price and don't really care about the buying experience other than it preferably bring cheap, easy and efficient.

 

They seemed a lot less sleazy than some of the other car supermarket outfits.

[martc]

I went to our local Suzuki dealer in Hull a fortnight ago, Suzuki currently have a "we pay the VAT" deal i.e. 20% off new cars.

 

I asked for a quote for my car - they wouldn't give me one unless I said I would buy a new car. I replied that I didn't know if I could afford to buy a new one until I knew what my car was worth. Cue a boring circular argument.

 

Anyhow the head sales monkey turns up, I explain that I want a quote before deciding if I want to buy a car. He scuttles off and brings back an A5 sized black and white photocopy of a pre-reg. (or maybe even second hand) car at another branch, priced the same as the brand new ones on Suzuki's website - we'll give you a quote if you agree to buy this, today, sight unseen. I left.

[Wilko220]

Comical really, isn't it?

I don't know why anyone puts themself through it. I don't think I'd buy a brand new car from a dealership even if money was no object.

[Cavcraft]

Oh aye, big shout out to Quicks Iveco who, when presented with an A4 sheet of paper filled with faults on the 2 week old Euro Cargo I had the misfortune to be driving just went 'not a warranty job, not covered, not a warranty job' etc.

He then asked if it was bought from that garage (obviously knowing it wasn't) then just tried to back heel about 95% of the faults.

 

I asked how much they cost new and when he replied I just told him had I paid for it I'd have driven the fucker through their workshop wall and left them to it. Eventually after much teeth gritting they fixed it.

[Spiny Norman]

  On 27/08/2014 at 11:59, martc said:

 Suzuki currently have a "we pay the VAT" deal i.e. 20% off new cars.

I used to use that trick as well.

It's surprising how many people fall for the suggestion that selling something 'pre VAT' or however they word it, is the same as giving you the prevailing VAT rate as a discount.

[Pete-M]

I used to do £2000 part ex.

 

Just kept very quiet that if you bought one I could give £2k discount. Used to get loads of great trade ins - for free!

[dangerousdave]

one experience I remember because I was shocked more than anything one sunday a few years ago I was bored so went to look in carcraft Sheffield for something to do I was in the cortna a few salesmen were outside they started walking over so was fully expecting "good afternoon sir I see you could do with a new car lets see what we can do etc" but what I did get was " I hope your not looking to buy because you should keep that its a really nice car I remember my dad having one etc " no sales patter whatsoever

[chaseracer]

  On 27/08/2014 at 17:13, dangerousdave said:

one experience I remember because I was shocked more than anything one sunday a few years ago I was bored so went to look in carcraft Sheffield for something to do I was in the cortna a few salesmen were outside they started walking over so was fully expecting "good afternoon sir I see you could do with a new car lets see what we can do etc" but what I did get was " I hope your not looking to buy because you should keep that its a really nice car I remember my dad having one etc " no sales patter whatsoever

 

You wouldn't get that at CAVCRAFT.

 

What you would get is some odd bloke on a bike shouting at you to get your bloody Ford away from his Pugs and Voxalls...

 

 

[Pete-M]

One thing that surprised me a few years ago was the process some of the car supermarkets have where when you turn up in your car and have to wait at the barrier to get in to park. They take your registration, HPI the car and do a credit check on the registered keeper before you have even made it into the showroom. Which is very very naughty indeed. That is also why sometimes they'll pretty much abandon some customers even if they're trying to buy.

 

If you don't like someone much, borrow their car and spend a day visiting car supermarket places. That many HPI and credit checks in a day can really screw someone's credit score.

[Doctormop]

I walked out of a Honda main dealers 5 years ago because of the not valuing your p/x until you say you are going to buy their car regardless, the salesmen reckoned if he valued my car I'd try and get a better deal elsewhere. No shit? Wish I'd thought of that!

Anyway,it made me think, what happens if you play along, say you will buy from them and then turn awkward when they value your car at 27p. Surely they can't make you deal with them or am I being incredibly naive and likely to end up paying 700 a month for 10 years on a base model polo for trying to find out?

[panhard65]

  On 27/08/2014 at 18:21, Doctormop said:

I walked out of a Honda main dealers 5 years ago because of the not valuing your p/x until you say you are going to buy their car regardless, the salesmen reckoned if he valued my car I'd try and get a better deal elsewhere. No shit? Wish I'd thought of that!

Anyway,it made me think, what happens if you play along, say you will buy from them and then turn awkward when they value your car at 27p. Surely they can't make you deal with them or am I being incredibly naive and likely to end up paying 700 a month for 10 years on a base model polo for trying to find out?

I took my dad to our local Honda dealer just after christmas. He had been stitched up with a golf and I told him to get shot asap. The salesman wasn't too pushy. We had gone looking for a Honda Jazz but the one they had was a bit rough and the old man liked the look of the Insight. We were given a test drive with no obligation at all. They even let us take the car away to show it to my step mum whilst they valued his Golf. They gave us what "we buy any car" had offered for it so a deal was done. The old man did take out all the protection things and insurance even though they weren't pushing them too hard. As he is in his 70's and rubbish at looking after cars it was worth the little extra for paint protection. There are some good dealers left down here in the west country. 

[Parky]

Surely you can say "yeah, I will buy it for XXXXX price but I am not signing anything until after the test drive"

 

Then say "you know what, this car is DREADFUL", proceed to list a load of existent or non existent characteristics you don't like and leave. What are they gonna do? Get the boys from the Parts department to beat you up?

 

Any dealership that told me to agree to a price before a test drive would lose a potential sale from me instantly

[wuvvum]

  On 27/08/2014 at 17:44, Pete-M said:

They take your registration, HPI the car and do a credit check on the registered keeper before you have even made it into the showroom. Which is very very naughty indeed.

Indeed.  Surely it's illegal to do a credit check on someone without their consent?  Surprised nobody's taken them officially to task over it.

[Cavcraft]

I like to think of Cavcraft as a bit like Sergeant Bilko: you're unlikely to come away empty handed.

[Pete-M]

  On 27/08/2014 at 18:37, wuvvum said:

Indeed.  Surely it's illegal to do a credit check on someone without their consent?  Surprised nobody's taken them officially to task over it.

I suspect it is. I went for a job interview a few years ago at one of the big car supermarket chains and the slimy fucker who interviewed me told me this was the process (I'd got through a couple of interviews to get to that stage) and that I'd be expected to bend rules to get the sale. 

 

I suspect the previous owner of my Jaaaag went Supermarket shopping as the HPI report on it is comical. Something like 10 HPI checks in two hours on one day. Nothing for a few years before, then a huge blitz of them.