project 1980 Austin Princess

[vulgalour]

yeah... but I'll also have to dismantle everything that we took apart today and, tbqh, the blow on the exhaust now is minimal enough that I'm not fannying about with it.  Taking the bonnet on and off isn't the worst job, but it's more work than I want to do.  I just want to use the sodding car, this  year has been a joke and the pounds-per-mile have been FAR too high for my budget!  So we'll put up with it until I can't and save up for a new custom exhaust instead.

[PhilA]

Here's hoping it stays that way, then.

 

Truth enough in getting to drive the thing places.

 

BTW the lights thing sounds like the battery ground to body is bad. Where does the body ground go to? A boltable panel or a welded piece of frame? Also wouldn't discount the wire being frayed and/or broken.

 

Should also cheer up the light output a little if you fix it because the current path (get it?) will be significantly higher resistance than it should be.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

The earth strap runs from the battery, to the coolant overflow bracket that bolts onto the battery tray that bolts onto the body, to the gearbox/bellhousing/clutch housing.  It's an old flat braided type so with feedback I've had from other fora, I'm going to replace that with a thick cable type instead to join the various elements since it won't hurt to replace the braided one.  What I didn't know is that the braided ribbon types can be pretty crap at doing their job right and it could well be a lot of my intermittent self-fixing issues I've had are related to that item.

[LC Torana]

The earth strap runs from the battery, to the coolant overflow bracket that bolts onto the battery tray that bolts onto the body, to the gearbox/bellhousing/clutch housing.  It's an old flat braided type so with feedback I've had from other fora, I'm going to replace that with a thick cable type instead to join the various elements since it won't hurt to replace the braided one.  What I didn't know is that the braided ribbon types can be pretty crap at doing their job right and it could well be a lot of my intermittent self-fixing issues I've had are related to that item.

 

Greetings from Australia.

 

Braided battery earth cables should be fine.  If the starter cranks the engine happily, that's the acid test.  I think we have to look downstream of there.

 

What is it that connects the gearbox housing electrically to the car frame?  If that's dodgy, I  could easily see current going via the throttle cable.

 

The headlight current path, from battery positive, should go (with engine turned off to ignore the alternator/regulator and simplify the concept):

 

Battery +ve > headlight switch > headlight > chassis > gearbox-to-earth-strap > gearbox-to-battery-strap > Battery -ve

 

But instead, you're seeing:

 

Battery +ve > headlight switch > headlight > chassis > throttle cable > gearbox-to-battery-strap > Battery -ve

 

 

Can you visualize what I'm saying?

[paulplom]

I've repaired a few metros with that method. Take the manifold off 1st. They were kept on by studs not bolts like yours so must have been a lot easier. The best bit was sealing them perfect only for them to crack/blow on your first attempt at a drag start (I was only 18 or so at the time). There's not much I don't know about metros tbf.

I had a throttle cable stick open while I was giving it the beans on my mams lime green chevette saloon. I had the sense to switch the ignition off though. Never heard an engine rev so high before or since.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I would internally sleeve both pipes with a good snug fitting steel tube each side. Something that taps up into the manifold and upon which the down pipes can locate.

[Ghosty]

Make a throttle cable out of string

[alf892]

You're welcome to have a go, Alf.  Everyone thinks this is a piece of piss until they have a go.

 

Run it down to me and I'll do it.......

[vulgalour]

Greetings from Australia.

 

Braided battery earth cables should be fine.  If the starter cranks the engine happily, that's the acid test.  I think we have to look downstream of there.

 

What is it that connects the gearbox housing electrically to the car frame?  If that's dodgy, I  could easily see current going via the throttle cable.

 

The headlight current path, from battery positive, should go (with engine turned off to ignore the alternator/regulator and simplify the concept):

 

Battery +ve > headlight switch > headlight > chassis > gearbox-to-earth-strap > gearbox-to-battery-strap > Battery -ve

 

But instead, you're seeing:

 

Battery +ve > headlight switch > headlight > chassis > throttle cable > gearbox-to-battery-strap > Battery -ve

 

 

Can you visualize what I'm saying?

Earth strap goes battery > coolant overflow bottle clamp that bolts to the battery tray that bolts to the car body > gearbox housing

 

While the starter will start the Princess, it has been slower to catch than usual, as though cranking power is down, something I'd just put down to colder weather and lack of use rather than any real problem. The strap looks visually fine and is nice and tight where it should be and no over-stressed by going around corners or similar.

 

I understand what the route the electricity is taking, what I don't understand yet is why. It needs going through one section at a time to find out what's happening using a multimeter I reckon, then we can find out where the electricity is escaping a bit easier. While it does seem related to the headlights, I'm not ruling out that it could be something else and the headlights being on is merely highlighting that there is an earth problem as it puts more load on the system.

 

 

Alf: When I'm sure it's not going to try and commit electrical suicide, I may well take you up on that.

[Talbot]

I've never really worked on BL stuff that much, but that twat of an exhaust joint reminds me of something I have worked on in the past, and we had just as much fun* trying to get that stupid tosser to seal as you are clearly having.

 

What we did in the end, which was absolutely and unquestionably a bodge, was to get a sheet of softish thick high-temperatue gasket material (approx 2mm thick, green, with obvious fibres in it which might have been asbestos?) and cut a ring out of it. Then get it nice and warm*, and shape it over an old Citroen Sphere (much like was mentioned above by Mr. Sherpa) so that it is now conical.

 

That was sat in the female part of the cone, and the whole lot was given a thin coating of cheap lithium grease, so that when it was offered up to the male bit (manifold in your case) and the clamps done up, it all slid neatly into place and the gasket compressed evenly. Done up as tight as we dared, and then a smidgen more.. run the engine, burn off all the grease and it sealed up a treat.

 

It was only the eleventy-billionth attempt to stop it leaking.

 

I remembered thinking at the time that if I ever encountered a joint like that again, I'd just do that the first time. Never had to again since.

[PhilA]

Just sounds like it isn't grounding to the body through the coolant bottle frame and bolt properly.

 

For giggles, clip a jump lead from - on the battery to a good ground on the car body. That's quick and simple. You own a BL car so you can't say you don't have jump leads...

 

 

Phil

[LC Torana]

For giggles, clip a jump lead from - on the battery to a good ground on the car body. That's quick and simple. You own a BL car so you can't say you don't have jump leads...

 

This.  But make it permanent.  What I recommend is to leave the existing battery wiring alone, but install a second battery grounding wire from B -ve to the body, preferably near to where the headlights and horn are grounded.

 

Why to there?  Because nearly all the really high-current systems in your car (starter, alternator, ignition) are grounded to the engine block.  The highest-current systems grounded to the body, on the other hand, are the headlights, horn and brake lights, which is why this mostly manifests itself when the lights are on.  So an extra ground wire to where the headlights are earthed is what's needed.

 

The root cause?  Rust.  You could take the battery tray out and clean it up and make better electrical contact, but I'd go with the extra wire,  as you're still fighting every panel joint between there and the headlights.

[vulgalour]

That theory is the most common offered so we're going to try what Phil suggested with jump leads first as a test.  Then a better/second/more earth strap to help the system out.  Annoyingly, the earth point for horns and headlights is on the opposite side of the car to the battery *but* the horn and headlights are both on brand new earth points made in the inner wing with brand new connectors, there hasn't yet been time for rust to do the usual on those points.  The other earth points for the earth strap have also been cleaned previously and the battery tray and coolant bottle support have both been cleaned and repainted very recently.

 

Hoping to have some free time tomorrow to tinker properly, see if we can get to the bottom of this.

[LC Torana]

Is it possible to put a flexible ground wire from the block to the headlight ground, on that side of the motor?  Is there a suitable bracket?  Save you running a long lead right around the bulkhead.

[PhilA]

Ding! Ben

Seconded

[vulgalour]

Don't get too excited, this earth problem only appeared after doing the clutch change, and was perfectly fine before, and even though everything went back cleaner (not painted, since it's all aluminium) and nothing was left over so I wouldn't be pointing the finger at the repainted bracket since I didn't have the earth problem when that was repainted something like a few months ago.

[PhilA]

Yes, but if we get excited and point and that turns out to be right, then you get to drive the damn thing!

 

We have our reasons

 

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Not a big update today, but a good one.  I'm not very well so I'm sat here bundled up in warm things and shall be having a lovely fresh mug of coffee shortly as a reward for today's efforts.

 

First thing we did was investigate the earth problem.  After testing with the multimeter and a spare jump lead cable (good call those that suggested it), we found that the issue was simply a bad earth in general.  By fitting a second more substantial cable earth to a cleaned up earth point, all systems operated optimally.  This was a pleasantly easy fix.  The battery tray/overflow bottle bracket wasn't part of the problem, the problem seems to be the old braided earth strap just isn't working very well at all anymore.

20180221-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Next was to remove the dashboard.  Annoyingly, this was going quite smoothly until the little release clip for the speedo cable snapped clean off.  I might have to buy yet another one of these, the grey plastic end on them seems incredibly fragile.  Even more annoying since this one had absolutely nothing wrong with it.  I might be able to jerry rig something up to keep it locked in place using the old piece that broke off and some tape or something until I can get a replacement, we'll see.  If need be I'll set the sat nav up so I don't end up  accidentally speeding if the cable won't plug back in.

20180221-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I was hoping to get a few more miles on the car before taking the dashboard out to check that the test wiring worked.  I'm going to have to be happy enough with the short time testing it we have managed because one problem with the lack of illumination in the dash was a wire that hadn't crimped properly.

20180221-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Mike went through all the wires and soldered them, then wrapped them, to keep it all safe and secure.  On retesting two bulbs still weren't illuminating even though the circuits and the bulbs tested okay.  Specifically, main beam tell tale and right hand cluster illumination.

20180221-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Hmm... one of the ongoing issues I've had with every old car is having to wiggle bulbs to make them work... 

20180221-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

BINGO!  So, electrical problems are now resolved.  All I have to do is apply a small amount of foil tape to the bulbs to take up the slack in the holders and we should then have full dashboard illumination.  The carburettor had the squelch pot topped up but the float still seems to be stuck, if I were feeling better I would have tackled that today.  Likewise the bulbs and dashboard refitting.  To be honest I was feeling too grotty to do more and didn't want to break something due to be fuzzy headed so called it quits.

 

Still, it's progress.  Easy to sort out now, I hope.

[Eddie Honda]

Liked, except for this.

 

Next was to remove the dashboard.  Annoyingly, this was going quite smoothly until the little release clip for the speedo cable snapped clean off.  I might have to buy yet another one of these, the grey plastic end on them seems incredibly fragile.  Even more annoying since this one had absolutely nothing wrong with it.  I might be able to jerry rig something up to keep it locked in place using the old piece that broke off and some tape or something until I can get a replacement, we'll see.  If need be I'll set the sat nav up so I don't end up  accidentally speeding if the cable won't plug back in.

 

Done it myself before with these stupid Smiths click things. What was wrong with the old-style proper knurled threaded collar? Yeah, yeah, beancounters.

[Rod/b]

Now you’ve said that, it’s almost certainly going to FTP in a novel and complicated manner within a week. I reckon the roof will fall off or something.

[320touring]

Good progress on the earthing issue, and restoring hallucinations to the dashboard:)

 

Re Speedo cable, no worries as it's too cool to go fast!

[PhilA]

My speedo cable broke like that too. It's currently held in place by the fact the cable can't go anywhere when wedged against the instrument binnacle.

 

It creates an amusing* click and makes the needle wobble.

 

Just drive by the revs instead.

 

 

Phil

[plasticvandan]

Reliants used the same cable from 73 onwards,and I used to have the same problem,but not on the old stock ones! Mind you you do have that cable on and off an awful lot!

[vulgalour]

Hopefully this will be the last time it's off in some time!  Stupid dashboard.

[vulgalour]

I'm still full of grot, so I shall keep this brief.

 

20180222-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The Good

- all dashboard illumination works correctly

- all fan speeds have corrected themselves and work correctly

- new fan comes on and goes off as it should with the in-radiator temperature switch

- old fan override works with the new fan, should I need it to

- exhaust is a bit quieter now we've had some heat in the system

- coolant operating temperature optimal in traffic and at speed

 

The Bad

- speedo cable doesn't work, a replacement will be ordered

- 3 rear bulbs have stopped working, probably the holders or the bulbs needing a wiggle again

 

The... other stuff

- I'm pretty good at guessing my speed based on engine tone and gear selected

 

Mike took a video with his dashcam.  Princess looks pretty smart on the road and also like absolutely nothing else.

[RayMK]

Much better news, well done!

 

Why does the video clip stall with this message? I'm in the UK.

 

[vulgalour]

Not sure why it's coming up for you, but the same message came up for a US friend.  I think it's because the radio is on in Mike's car.  Shame,  the first song in the vid was Queen - Don't Stop Me Now, which was highly appropriate.

[Christine]

Seems only a few years since   Freddie Mercury passed away . ..

 

.It's 26 years   

[vulgalour]

 

Got a message from Youtubes and it is a copyright thing so I'm re-editing the vid to deal with that and then it should be viewable.

[vulgalour]

Video should be working now, all being well.