project 1980 Austin Princess

[Des]

Would a length of semi rigid plastic pipe and olives between both cyls be an elegant solution here?

Years ago I did a load of mot work to a very fucked mini for registration number transfer nonsense, it had a collapsed clutch hose that slightly delayed clutch engagement, when the pedal was pumped it would go solid as the arm would reach its stop and then take enough time for me to jump out and count to 10 before engaging again. I showed everyone the ghost car, used to point it toward the non paying punters heaps at the top of the car park, bit of fast idle on the choke and off the driverless car would go to the utter befuddlement of anyone witnessing.

[vulgalour]

It'll just be easier to get a new custom pipe made, if a little expensive.  Hopefully that'll solve it and I can press it back into daily use again to get some miles under the tyres before the April MoT.

[vulgalour]

Just been reminded by a fellow club member that they have the master cylinder, slave cylinder, and good clutch hose from OKK.  I'm gonna buy those instead, providing they're within my budget, since I know they'll do the job.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Flippin heck there must be a million brake hoses that would do the job, even if they were longer. I reckon you should find out what threads are on the end (I bet you can do this while sat browsing on line catalogues) then find a brake hose with the same fittings. In fact I bet any brake pipe for any 1970s/1980s BL shitter with a male fitting on each end will fit, you might have to loop & cable tie it if it's too long. I reckon that will get you a £3 solution instead of £30 for a custom hose or whatever.

[vulgalour]

You're welcome to try.  I haven't the patience at this point tbqh.

[vulgalour]

GET IN https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MORRIS-B-L-PRINCESS-AMBASSADOR-1700-1800-2000-1975-84-CLUTCH-HOSE-BH245/232650946290

 

Less than a tenner and measures the same length as the old one I brought home with me, just in case.  It's also stated as suitable for Ambassador, 1700 and 2000 so should be the correct one for me.

[vulgalour]

GOOD NEWS!

 

The new clutch hose arrived, this time longer than the original by about the same difference as the last one I bought was shorter.  Very odd.

20180216-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Too long is less of a problem than too short at least so I got that fitted and Mike and I bled the clutch hydraulics.

20180216-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Initial signs were very promising with a much better feeling clutch pedal this time around.  Started up the car and.... GEARS!  Hooray.  I then found out just how worn out my old clutch was because on trying to set off I instantly stalled the car.  The blowing exhaust wasn't helping that much there either, I'm sure.  Next was to noisily pilot it into the unit  to see if we could improve the exhaust situation.  Mike cracked on with that while I did some other jobs.

20180216-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

To save the old wing mirror holes from snagging on cleaning cloths and clothes and anything else, I fitted some little rubber grommets.  I'll weld these holes up eventually, for now this will do.

20180216-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The trim under the glovebox was finally secured.  I don't have any of the relevant fixings in stock at the moment so I improvised with some tiny black cable ties, again for the short term.  It works, looks tidy, and makes the parcel shelf accessible again.

20180216-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180216-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Trimmed down the bolts for the door mirrors so they sit more securely.  They're not bad to drive on, as it happens, the driver's side mirror has a magnifying mirror and they give a reasonable field of vision.

20180216-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The exhaust  decided it didn't want to stop blowing at all.  We got one side sealed for a few minutes, and then it just started blowing again.  I'm giving this job to somebody else to do who I will give money because tbqh I've done faffing about with this stupid design, it's never sealed properly for very long in all the years I've owned it and it's an absolute chore to resolve.  Giving it to someone who does exhausts all day for a living will hopefully seal it better.  I suspect the exhaust is a cheap aftermarket one that doesn't really fit properly because even by Princess standards mine has been appallingly bad for continuing to blow at the manifold-to-downpipe join.

 

That aside, the drive home was noisy but actually a bit of a revelation.  The clutch change has utterly transformed the way the car performs, there's no longer that awkward balancing act when setting off, good progression through the gears and a generally more responsive car off the line even with a badly blowing exhaust.  In fact, it's such an improvement I was nearly caught out when I forgot that it's not the Rover and has no power steering, poorer brakes and is, generally, a bigger and older machine.  In some ways, I wish I'd done the clutch change when I first got the car, it's clearly needed doing for my entire ownership of the car.

 

20180216-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Now just to work through the light bulb niggles and book the car in to get the exhaust sorted out by someone else.  It felt good to actually drive the car again, allbeit only for a few short miles.

[320touring]

YAAAASSSS!

great news:)

[Parky]

I like this result very much indeed

 

I like this result very much indeed

 

This result - so good I said it twice!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Great work vulg!!!!! Is the pedal much lighter too. Seem to remember that from my crab & wedge clutch changes.

 

'The Crab and Wedge' sounds like a great name for a pub actually, I am going to send that one right off to Wetherspoons

[Felly Magic]

I would call that a result, meaning you can drive it about again, sounding like a Chav in a Pauxhall Corset LOL

[vulgalour]

It is!  It's probably the lightest clutch I've ever used, well worth the effort of changing the clutch really.

 

The Crab and Wedge is a seaside pub too, they serve crabsticks and steak chips in a paper cone for £1.50.

[Felly Magic]

Mojo level increased now too I bet. Hopefully you can sort the zorst and light gremlins out for not much poundingtons too. The beige & purple bastard lives again

[vulgalour]

Electrics are easy peasy, exhaust can be someone else's problem.  I cannot lose because I'm dutifully ignoring all the ways in which this car can and has gone wrong.

[Felly Magic]

Happy Vulg

[vulgalour]

Took the Princess to the local trusted exhaust place and the one guy there that knows his old stuff had a look.  The conversation was mostly "You're on your own with that one!", which was entirely fair.  Basically, the problems we're having getting it to seal is normal for this kind of exhaust and if it's a poor quality exhaust to begin with, my experience of it blowing eventually is also normal.  This is from someone that has fettled with BL exhausts since they were much newer than mine is and still fettles with exhausts now for a living.  His advice was not to waste the cash on getting them to try and seal the exhaust as they'd be likely to have the same success/failure rate as us anyway and it'll probably blow again soon after forking out to have it fixed.  I appreciate honesty like that, rather than being messed about, and it was reassuring to know that it is actually genuinely a problematic set up rather than us being inept.

 

We were given some tips on fitting, at least.  So far, we've done mostly everything right but actually getting the manifold-to-downpipe join sitting as snug as possible before sealant and clamps is the most important bit.  That might sound a bit daft, but given the design it's easy to think you've got it lined up perfectly when it's actually just a bit off, which in turn can cause the issues I've been having.

 

So, disconnect the blowing join, clean it up, make the flange as perfect as possible and wiggle everything about until it's lined up as close to perfect as possible without the clamps.  Then use some paste, tighten the clamps and get the rest of the exhaust secure.  It should then seal, or at the worst only blow a tiny little bit.

 

Ideally, replacing the cast manifold with a suitable custom one-piece banana bunch that goes into a good flexi joint and on into the rest of the system is the best solution.  Unfortunately for me, a custom exhaust is out of my budget currently so we just have to do the best with what we've got and do the exhaust when I can afford it.

[Felly Magic]

That is a real bummer there Vulg, sounds like you need a lottery win for the zorst issue

[Zelandeth]

Here's a possible halfway house - get a custom downpipe made to mate up with the rest of the system. At least if *that* is right the rest is more amenable to hacking into behaving.

 

I'm assuming this is the same daft type of flange setup as on the manifold to downpipe joint on the early Metros? If so, yes... it's a bloody stupid and utterly infuriating mess.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'm sure I've asked this before but can't remember what you said. Does your wedge have a clamp at the bottom of the downpipe that fastens the exhaust solidly onto one or more of the diff casing nuts??

[purplebargeken]

For something that could, in theory be really quite straightforward, an exhaust like this is a purely hateful, ball ache piece of fuckery.

[dozeydustman]

I admire your persistence with this car, Vulg. I read a few pages back you swapped the head. Did you keep the car's original manifold or use the one from the new head? Might be some tiny little difference between the 2 preventing a good seal.

[vulgalour]

Zel:  Yep, same system as on the Metros.  Custom downpipe would resolve it, as might welding the downpipe to the cast manifold and then splitting the downpipe further down.  Not sure how to deal with the carburettor since that bolts to the manifold.

 

Boll:  Yep, it has one, and it does seem to be doing its job on the side it's fitted.  Just annoying that you can't really fit one to do the same job to the other downpipe.

 

PBK:  Agreed!

 

Dozey:  It did this before I changed the head too.  In fact, when I first bought the car the exhaust was blowing and in our blissful ignorance we all thought that would be such an easy thing to put right.  My money is stil on this problem being caused by a rubbish factory design combined with a poor fitting exhaust.

[captain_70s]

Dozey:  It did this before I changed the head too.  In fact, when I first bought the car the exhaust was blowing and in our blissful ignorance we all thought that would be such an easy thing to put right.  My money is stil on this problem being caused by a rubbish factory design combined with a poor fitting exhaust.

Must be a BL thing, my Dolly 1850 always had a downpipe blow and now my 1300 has developed similar and has required industrial quantities of Gun Gum to silence...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What's the clamp like that joins the downpipe to the manifold? IIRC each of the two downpipes should have a 4-piece clamp ie two inner bits and two outer bits. Are you using the right ones and are they complete?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I remember this being a massive pain in the arse in my wedge days, but I'm sure I cracked it in the end.

[BeEP]

I've had the same problem with 1100s, Allegros & Metros, all of which use basically the same design (ignoring twin carb 1100s).

 

As Mr_Bo11ox says, 4 piece clamps are best, followed by 2 piece clamps using two bolts.  Worst, by a margin, are two piece clamps which use only one bolt (the other ends hook together).  Whenever I've bought a car with the latter then at the first sign of the joint blowing the clamps have gone in the bin.

[mat_the_cat]

I remember this being a massive pain in the arse in my wedge days, but I'm sure I cracked it in the end.

That's not going to help, it'll just leak out of the crack as well.

[Captain Furious]

What sort of joint is it? Is it one of those where one side is rounded and the other side is flared and they’re supposed to fit together like a ball and socket type affair and seal?

 

My Granada Cosworth had those on the cats-midpipe joint, there were two pipes to join which doubled the fun. It was unbelievably difficult to make them seal. You could eye them up meticulously, tighten them up to breaking point and it'd still blow as if the two pipes were nowhere near each other. Took us fuggin ages to get it right and then it was only pure luck. Frustrating to say the least.

[vulgalour]

Captain Furious:  exactly that!

 

The downpipe has a cup-flange that goes onto a sort of ball socket at the manifold.  There's two pipes, and they don't like to line up.  Each pipe is held together with a four part clamp comprising two inner shells of pressed steel, one outer pressed steel clamp half and one cast steel clamp half.  Originally it was two folded steel ones and they NEVER sealed, tried to replace them both with cast items from a Mini but they'd only seal if you used one half of the cast clamp and one half of the pressed clamp.  Don't ask me why, that's just how it is. The halves are then held together with the most difficult to access nut and bolt (2 of each per clamp)  you'll ever encounter and the whole lot has a bad habit of moving as you're tightening it up.

 

A custom exhaust is the only real solution, believe me.

[KruJoe]

I also remember this fun* from my Mini/Metro days.

As well as some tricks mentioned, I had some success with by lining things up as best I could, with Gun-Gum, and before nipping up the clamps, I put a scissor jack between the ground and the base of the down-pipe (with the rest of the exhaust fitted, to keep it in line). This just helps force the flanges together, without relying on the clamps to pull them in. HTH.

 

In the end I binned off that rig, and used a good old LCB manifold, and RC40.