project 1980 Austin Princess

[MorrisItalSLX]

59 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

This one has a Rover V8. It would be interesting to hear what it's like to live with. 

I think I’m in love.

[vulgalour]

3 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

This one has a Rover V8. It would be interesting to hear what it's like to live with. 

... you're trolling us right?  That's obviously a photoshop.

[vulgalour]

Yesterday the new shims arrived and I got to work on putting the engine back together.  I installed both, measured the gaps, and found that what I'm calling #7 actually needed the original shim putting back in to get the gap correct.  I've now got 0.30 gap on 7 out of 8 which is great.  Unfortunately, #2 is just above tolerance of 0.20 so I need to work out what size shim I need for that, take it all apart, and do it again.

A friend with more engine experience than me did tell me that this is normal.  When you replace the shims sometimes the size you think you need isn't actually the right size and you need to try out shims slightly thicker or thinner until you find the right one.  Changing one shim can alter the gap on another for reasons I don't actually understand.

I did have a bit of a moment with the job where I was very worried I'd completely fudged it.  As I put everything back together I cranked the engine by hand to check for tight spots and be sure I hadn't mucked up the timing somehow and all seemed well.  One last hand crank to make sure it was good and it felt okay, I'd got compression where expected, nothing felt like it was binding or amiss so it was time to turn the key.

Quick flick and a listen, all seemed fine.

Second turn of the key to try and start it and something was wrong.  There was a hard spot in the rotation, as though something was binding.  This was very concerning.  I'd not kept an eye on the time either and had gone into too-hungry-to-focus territory without realising it and was about to throw all my toys out the pram... took a step back and left it alone to have some pizza.

Came back with a full tum and refreshed brain and had a think.  Tried turning it by hand and I could hear compression where expected, but there was definitely a tight spot.  Checked the cambelt hadn't jumped a tooth (it's done that to me before, totally randomly) and it was fine.  Distributor seemed okay.  So I felt like I probably hadn't smashed all the valves into the shims.

Went through the process in my head of what needed to come apart to investigate.  First thing was the camshaft end plate and that reminded me the last time there was a binding issue was when I hadn't put a gasket in there, leading to me smashing all the valves into all the pistons.  Eureka moment had because I had made a new gasket since the old one tore on removal (and it's good practice to replace it anyway).  Took the end plate off and sure enough, there was a problem.  I'd cut the top hole in the gasket just a bit undersized and there was a witness mark where the camshaft end had been rubbing on it.  Opened out the hole a bit larger than the witness mark and put the plate back on with the adjusted gasket then turned by hand.  No more tight binding!  Gave it a few more rotations by hand to be sure and then tried turning the key again.

No start.  It was behaving like the plugs were out of order, which was something I did know they weren't since I'd very sensibly labelled everything and could easily check my work.  Knew the timing belt was correctly positioned to so that meant it had to be the distributor at fault if it was an ignition issue.

Sure enough, I'd put the distributor in on the wrong timing mark.  Pulled it out, repositioned it, and hand crank again just to be extra safe.  All systems appeared okay.  Turned the key and hey presto it ran!  What a relief.

It's a lot quieter, not as quiet as I'd like as I still have that one shim to adjust.  I had to tweak the distributor a tiny bit to correct the advance/retard from where it was before (I'd marked it so I knew where it should sit to avoid guessing), and then we were good to go for a test drive.  Quick whizz around the block far enough to get it up to temperature and I was pleasantly surprised at how much nicer it drives, much more like its old self.

Now I just need to order another shim and have another go at that noisy one.  I don't really want to, unlike a pushrod engine to make any kind of valve adjustment on this one it involves a lot of dismantling and nonsense I can't be doing with so since things are within tolerance it can wait for now and I can get on with something else, like welding the jacking point I have the parts for now.

[Noel Tidybeard]

have you considered the metalic cerise colour nissan used on the primera gt?

it might be easier to obtain

[Rocket88]

3 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Yesterday the new shims arrived and I got to work on putting the engine back together.  I installed both, measured the gaps, and found that what I'm calling #7 actually needed the original shim putting back in to get the gap correct.  I've now got 0.30 gap on 7 out of 8 which is great.  Unfortunately, #2 is just above tolerance of 0.20 so I need to work out what size shim I need for that, take it all apart, and do it again.

A friend with more engine experience than me did tell me that this is normal.  When you replace the shims sometimes the size you think you need isn't actually the right size and you need to try out shims slightly thicker or thinner until you find the right one.  Changing one shim can alter the gap on another for reasons I don't actually understand.

I did have a bit of a moment with the job where I was very worried I'd completely fudged it.  As I put everything back together I cranked the engine by hand to check for tight spots and be sure I hadn't mucked up the timing somehow and all seemed well.  One last hand crank to make sure it was good and it felt okay, I'd got compression where expected, nothing felt like it was binding or amiss so it was time to turn the key.

Quick flick and a listen, all seemed fine.

Second turn of the key to try and start it and something was wrong.  There was a hard spot in the rotation, as though something was binding.  This was very concerning.  I'd not kept an eye on the time either and had gone into too-hungry-to-focus territory without realising it and was about to throw all my toys out the pram... took a step back and left it alone to have some pizza.

Came back with a full tum and refreshed brain and had a think.  Tried turning it by hand and I could hear compression where expected, but there was definitely a tight spot.  Checked the cambelt hadn't jumped a tooth (it's done that to me before, totally randomly) and it was fine.  Distributor seemed okay.  So I felt like I probably hadn't smashed all the valves into the shims.

Went through the process in my head of what needed to come apart to investigate.  First thing was the camshaft end plate and that reminded me the last time there was a binding issue was when I hadn't put a gasket in there, leading to me smashing all the valves into all the pistons.  Eureka moment had because I had made a new gasket since the old one tore on removal (and it's good practice to replace it anyway).  Took the end plate off and sure enough, there was a problem.  I'd cut the top hole in the gasket just a bit undersized and there was a witness mark where the camshaft end had been rubbing on it.  Opened out the hole a bit larger than the witness mark and put the plate back on with the adjusted gasket then turned by hand.  No more tight binding!  Gave it a few more rotations by hand to be sure and then tried turning the key again.

No start.  It was behaving like the plugs were out of order, which was something I did know they weren't since I'd very sensibly labelled everything and could easily check my work.  Knew the timing belt was correctly positioned to so that meant it had to be the distributor at fault if it was an ignition issue.

Sure enough, I'd put the distributor in on the wrong timing mark.  Pulled it out, repositioned it, and hand crank again just to be extra safe.  All systems appeared okay.  Turned the key and hey presto it ran!  What a relief.

It's a lot quieter, not as quiet as I'd like as I still have that one shim to adjust.  I had to tweak the distributor a tiny bit to correct the advance/retard from where it was before (I'd marked it so I knew where it should sit to avoid guessing), and then we were good to go for a test drive.  Quick whizz around the block far enough to get it up to temperature and I was pleasantly surprised at how much nicer it drives, much more like its old self.

Now I just need to order another shim and have another go at that noisy one.  I don't really want to, unlike a pushrod engine to make any kind of valve adjustment on this one it involves a lot of dismantling and nonsense I can't be doing with so since things are within tolerance it can wait for now and I can get on with something else, like welding the jacking point I have the parts for now.

Ungrateful bastard, isn’t it..😱😁

[vulgalour]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

have you considered the metalic cerise colour nissan used on the primera gt?

it might be easier to obtain

I hadn't, I didn't know it existed.  I really like that, as much as I was avoiding metallics I might have to re-evaluate that now.

[plasticvandan]

That colour would really elevate it if you are going to the effort if having it sprayed. Regarding the timing,that would likely have needed a tweak anyway as you have altered the valve timing slightly by re shinning,I would have thought. Hopefully you can get the last one sorted,aside from the noise it's amazing what a difference to the running side of things tweaking the valve gaps can do

[vulgalour]

I have been surprised, pleasantly.  I think I need to tweak the timing a smidge more, not much, had an occasional fart at very low speeds intermittently so it's probably a tiny bit retarded?

Also spoken to friend that's doing the paint and he's going to see if he can get a sample of that pink.  If it works as well as I suspect it will, I'll have to hunt out a metallic black to go with it because I think a flat black is going to look odd next to the metallic pink.

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

I have been surprised, pleasantly.  I think I need to tweak the timing a smidge more, not much, had an occasional fart at very low speeds intermittently so it's probably a tiny bit retarded?

Also spoken to friend that's doing the paint and he's going to see if he can get a sample of that pink.  If it works as well as I suspect it will, I'll have to hunt out a metallic black to go with it because I think a flat black is going to look odd next to the metallic pink.

My vote for the complimentary colour?  Peugeot Raven Black.  It's got a lovely deep multicolour (mainly green and purple) shimmer in it up close.

It's also fscking impossible to photograph.

The colours are massively more saturated in person.  However from a distance it's subtle enough to just add a nice bit of depth.  In the sun and up close though it's really pretty.

Given that it was used for most of the run of the 107 and 208 should be pretty easy to source I'd think.

[Noel Tidybeard]

nighthawk or crystal black from honda

 

[vulgalour]

53 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

My vote for the complimentary colour?  Peugeot Raven Black.  It's got a lovely deep multicolour (mainly green and purple) shimmer in it up close.

It's also fscking impossible to photograph.

The colours are massively more saturated in person.  However from a distance it's subtle enough to just add a nice bit of depth.  In the sun and up close though it's really pretty.

Given that it was used for most of the run of the 107 and 208 should be pretty easy to source I'd think.

Perfect!  I was just talking to the housemate about this very colour and couldn't remember the name.  It's one of my favourite modern colours out there.

[vulgalour]

Paint samples of Nissan Cerise and Peugeot Raven Black have been ordered... more on that in the future.

In the meantime, a set of Rover P6 wheel trims turned up super cheap so I snagged those since I like options.  They need a refurb, as most things I get do.  However, they are also stainless steel so rust is not a concern, and unlike the big chrome trims they don't obscure the valve stem so I can actually do my tyre pressures without removing my wheel trims now.

I wasn't entirely sure the P6 trims would fit, rear wheel drive trims don't always fit front wheel drive wheels.  Happily they do fit.  I'd been warned P6 trims can be a bear to fit and these were no different, requiring application of a rubber mallet to get the spring-grips to seat fully.  Once on, they don't show any signs of wanting to come off on their own.  I do like that these mirror some of the design elements in the rear lights and when the Rover badges are removed from them, the stainless polished, and the painted bits redone I think they'll look a lot better.

I've got some gold BL plughole centre caps I intend to fit in place of the battered Rover centre badges and I think if my steel wheels were a colour - probably copper to match the bits in the engine bay and the coachstripe I'm thinking of having on the car, or hot pink to match the bodywork - they'd look better and make the wheel look bigger.  I don't love the P6 trims yet, but I don't hate them either.

[lesapandre]

I  wonder who designed them. Possibly the meister David Bache himself. 

Note here they have a pointed centre.

[vulgalour]

There was at least one revision of the design on the hubcaps, early ones are as in the model there and usually a bit more expensive.  The ones I've got I think are second revision and I believe there was a third, though that might just have been a different centre badge rather than a full redesign.

[High Jetter]

IIRC like Jags, the centre caps were sold separately, held on by 2 spring washer clips

[SilverMachine]

16 hours ago, lesapandre said:

I  wonder who designed them. Possibly the meister David Bache himself. 

Note here they have a pointed centre.

omg the people in that car must be terrified, hes a frickin giant!

good to  hear the princess is on the mend! and both those colours look cool. but as you say metallics can be an arse!

 

[Datsuncog]

There's a weird history of red P6 owners being terrified by the uncanny...

Hopefully the hubcaps won't attract anything untoward on the Princess; I think they look pretty good.

Paint choice should be ver' nice also.

[plasticvandan]

Hate the mirrors,hate the lights,hate the colour combo,love the wheel trims 🤣

I'm glad we are all different 

[vulgalour]

Agreed to help the housemate collect a new armchair to save them £30 delivery.  Didn't think to ask how big the chair was.  Luckily, I've got a roof rack and some hairy orange rope and I'm not afraid to use it!

 

If that's not a calendar entry I don't know what is.

[SilverMachine]

thats bigger than those rooftop camping box tent thingy's !

[High Jetter]

6 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Agreed to help the housemate collect a new armchair to save them £30 delivery.  Didn't think to ask how big the chair was.  Luckily, I've got a roof rack and some hairy orange rope and I'm not afraid to use it!

 

If that's not a calendar entry I don't know what is.

How big are their arms?

[vulgalour]

Ran out of welding gas today.  Obviously this happened after a handful of tacks to hold the new jacking point in place that were not strong enough to keep it in place so the Princess is grounded until I can afford a new gas bottle.

Normally I make it a point to check I've got enough spare for gas, paint, etc. before starting a job and just didn't think to this time.  It's been a spendy month so I'm skint until July, which is a nuisance.

On the plus side, I didn't uncover any new horrors and the new jacking point was actually really easy to make so in a few days I'm looking forward to getting this all built up again.  For now the Princess will just have to stay on the axle stand since I don't have a jacking point to make use of to get it off the axle stand.

[vulgalour]

Unexpected free time and good weather? That means it's time to sample these paints to see if I like them.
 

First up, prime the donor panel, a dented up old Rover wing destined for scrap. Dark grey primer, a white primer barrier (no top coat on that one), and light grey primer. We weren't sure which grey would be best under the colour coats.

 

Next, tape it off into sections so there's reference for what primer is where, and hit it with some colour coats.  We're using Nissan Cerise and Peugeot Raven Black here.

 

The pink goes over the light grey much better and the colour pops more than it does over the dark grey.  The black doesn't really seem to care either way.  Interestingly, the black has quite a lot of green tint in it and that works really well against the pink to make both colours look richer.  The black looks blacker than the black gloss on the car, funnily enough.  The pink is also quite hard to photograph 'accurately' because depending on the light, the camera, and the viewing angle it can look pink, purple, or red.

 

Get the tape off and hang this wing up so we can see it in the orientation it'll be on the car, if we pretend this is a Princess wing of course.

 

Nissan Cerise is a total winner here for me.  It's such an interesting and vibrant colour, I'm so glad it was pointed out as being a potential candidate because I'm not sure I would have gone looking for it.  In combination with the Peugeot Raven Black the two colours play so well off each other that I don't feel any need to go looking for an alternative.  It's going to be quite an improvement over the current colour choices which almost look boring now.

[Asimo]

That is going to look fabulous!

[Datsuncog]

Ohhhh yes.

I'm genuinely excited here to see how the next incarnation turns out!

[Zelandeth]

That'll look great I reckon.  The metallic colours while a bit more work will show the lines of the car so much better than solid colours ever will.  Think those two go together very well too.

[vulgalour]

There's a lot of work to do before I can even start putting paint on the car unfortunately.  My standards of finish are not as high as my friend's, I've been so used to just making do but he wants to make a really nice job of it.  Fair play, I've seen his work and it is excellent so it's going to feel amazing to have a car done to his standard rather than mine.

Payday can't come soon enough, I'm itching to get this welding finished so I can crack on with bodywork correction and preparation now.

Worth mentioning that the pink lays down incredibly nicely even out of a rattle can and is surprisingly forgiving for a metallic when it comes to panel imperfections.  The black not so much, that's even worse than the black on the car for showing up every little dent which is a bit worrying since the worst bits of the bodywork for dents and wobbles are all in the black zone so I've definitely got a lot of sanding ahead of me.

[vulgalour]

Did quite a bit of welding today, car is back on its wheels again which is good times.  Wanted a little fun reward after the misery that is welding upside down on the drive outside so I blanked off the holes where the MG B units were on the front, returning the panel under the headlights back to stock.  Threw a bit of paint on too, nothing crazy since it's getting repainted properly soon anyway.  Was pretty impressed at the finish for it having no filler, especially given the odd shape of the area.  I'll be dressing out the imperfections and whatnot when final paint goes on in the near future, for now I just wanted it better than it was, which it is.

Unfortunately for me, the next bit of welding really ought to be the driver's side outer sill.  It's the biggest piece of welding the car needs and the only structural item (that I'm aware of) so once I get that out of the way everything else will be fun cosmetic stuff.  Outer sills on these aren't too bad to do providing you've got a panel, and I know I'm going to find rot on the inner and intermediate sills just like I did on the passenger side a few years ago.  Thing is I can't sort the doors out until I've done the sills since the top of the sill is the datum point for the bottom of the doors

[auntiemaryscanary]

That'll look stunning with it's new paint job. Your new job will give you a bit of financial breathing space to get it done as well.

[vulgalour]

Credit to Horrido of the blue forum for these two mock-ups which I do really like.

 

I'm going to be doing something close to option 3 on my sample chart, with the longer middle trim at door handle height that option 4 has.  That chrome/stainless detail will run from the front arch to the rear spoiler, over the top of the spoiler, and back to the front arch on the other side.  It will either be done in paint, vinyl, or sticky-backed-stainless strip, the latter being the one I'd like to try the most since I think it will blend in well with the other stainless trim on the car.

As I said on the blue, the Princess is my car that I'm putting together to my taste, such as it is.  That's why I'm not picking Horrido's designs because they're not what I want to do.  There's nothing wrong with the Horrido designs, far from it, I just want to tread a different path.  I would love to go the ultra sleek futuristic look with flush fit lights and glass and digital displays and all that... but this is a daily driver and my pockets are short so I have to be realistic.  I also don't want to make it look any sportier than it is, it's a lazy old slug of a thing and I want the styling to reflect that.  It's a bit gawky, it's a bit weird, and I love that about it.  I don't want to make it appealing and mainstream, that's not why I like it.

I'm the sort of person who unironically likes things like this.

So perhaps we should all count ourselves lucky that I've shown some restraint XD  Does that Cortina look good? No, not really.  Does it look fun?  Absolutely!  The car modifying scene could do with more nonsense in it now and then.