Bus Shite

[martc]

NuT, 1944.

[martc]

A CIE training coach turning Singers Corner from Grand Parade onto Washington St, Cork in the early 1980’s.

What is it?

[TooManyPeopleMovers]

5 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Very few buses have air conditioning in the UK, there are 2 reasons for this as far as I can tell, the main one is the frequent opening and closing of the door negates any benefit to it, but there's also the cost and effect on fuel consumption as well.

You’re right that when the door opens this does lessen the cooling a bit, but a Thermo-King air conditioner keeps up really well. Fuel consumption would be a fair point. Guess it’s the value to the operator.

3 hours ago, High Jetter said:

I don't know how many days a year you'd use A/C in NZ but I bet it's considerably more than in the UK. Our roads must be superior so fancy seats not needed...oh, hang on...

Well…in Auckland maybe. In Wellington our average temperature is 17 degrees Celsius. Today we had a high of 11 degrees. I’ve seen how hot it can get in the South of England. Even in Glasgow my friends (and cat) are scorching. As for road conditions - like you, I had thought that UK roads would have a superior quality of seal - sadly I’m not sure (based on my small sample size) that I noticed a difference. 
 

3 hours ago, SunnySouth said:

There’s also the historic preference for double deckers in Britain, which means you can’t stick the A/C gear on the roof and so it takes up passenger space. Cab-only aircon was a bit of a ‘thing’ for a while, and certain operators did toy with saloon aircon at different times but I think ever-increasing fuel prices and a drive to keep weight down has pretty much killed it off. With the electric revolution I guess it’s likely that wanting the maximum range out of batteries won’t help to make it popular again either, except maybe on routes where vehicles can recharge at either end. British buses have been available with aircon for years, Dennis Darts were being supplied to Hong Kong with it back in the 90s, it’s just rarely ever been deemed necessary by native UK operators.

I think air conditioning does hit the range on an electric bus. Our company has electric buses, Yutongs, and they can still get 400km of usage in a day (on hilly Wellington routes) with full cab and saloon air conditioning and no top up charge (our routes don’t have chargers at any point). 

[TooManyPeopleMovers]

1 hour ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Thanks very much for your post. That really is a nice workplace.

I believe you're bang on the money; I don't know  whether authorities and companies care so little about driver welfare...

But I do know that the Rotas aren't always designed around the needs of human beings.

I do know that many drivers lack a place to rest and to eat meals.

I do know that many routes lack provisions for toilets.

I do know that drivers will freeze in the winter and overheat in the summer.

I do know that there's precious little support for drivers assaulted on duty.

I do know that there's a toxic atmosphere of blame and fault-finding which leads to job insecurity.

Perhaps then, this is a structural problem with the UK. It is fair to say that any Socially Necessary occupation is seen as a 'cost' and as such has no value.

When I tell friends from Mainland Europe about some of the shenanigans I have experienced, they're genuinely shocked.

Perception is poor too. One example:

I was at a club in a fairly wealthy town. Someone walked up to me and asked me what I do. When I told her I drive buses, she walked away!

Not unusual. Same question in France a while back, and the conversation went on for some time!

Anyhoo,  here's a picture of a bus:

While not the most popular opinion, I do love an ADL. I don’t get the hate. We have Scania’s at our depot too (with New Zealand built bodywork) and I’d far sooner take an ADL over a Scania. 

The Scania’s aren’t bad. The ADL’s are just better.

As to the rest of your commentary about the way in which society generally treats bus drivers, sadly the same applies here in New Zealand. As you put it perfectly, socially necessary jobs aren’t valued.

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, martc said:

A CIE training coach turning Singers Corner from Grand Parade onto Washington St, Cork in the early 1980’s.

What is it?

1962 Leyland Leopard L2 with CIE's own bodywork.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Any ideas as to what this vehicle is? My guess is a Brush bodied AEC Regent formerly of Bournemouth... 

 

[SunnySouth]

A few choice shots of my own from the Alton running day last weekend; a little duplication with some of @bramz7 nicely artistic shots, but hopefully still of some interest! 
 

Modern work of art, the Optare Spectra. Despite being averagely double decker-sized, somehow the styling of these always made them seem massive:

 

Easily the prettiest ECW bodywork of them all, the RELH coach:

 

And less pretty but still elegant, VR loading at Alton station:

Special Bus. Say no more…

 

Ex British Airways three door airport shuttle National. Face:

 

Arse:

And the absolute star of the show, the ultimate “Do not paint” hero, barn find ex Portsmouth PD2. Mechanically restored (probably!) but otherwise left as-is; an absolutely beautiful thing:

/end of self-gratutitous photo-splurging!

 

[SunnySouth]

…and a couple of Southampton specimens for @Yoss 

[Knotty Ash Towers]

1 hour ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Any ideas as to what this vehicle is? My guess is a Brush bodied AEC Regent formerly of Bournemouth... 

 

It's a Weymann-bodied Leyland Titan.

[Yoss]

3 hours ago, SunnySouth said:

…and a couple of Southampton specimens for @Yoss 

And we all know the reason for the red and white stripes on the grill of the Guy Arab don't we? Well you would if you lived in Southampton. Southampton FC won the FA Cup in 1976. It's the only thing they've ever won and they never stop going on about it. Anyway this was the bus they used for their open top tour afterwards which I saw simply due to its proximity to our house rather than me having any affinity to the football team. I was 8 years old. 

The stripes were re applied for the fortieth anniversary of the original run (which will soon be 50 years ago!) 

Also it just occurred to me that I don't think anybody would call any mode of transport an Arab these days. I'd never really thought about it before, they've always been called that but typing it out just now it seems an odd name for a bus. This did not occur to me as an eight year old. 

[Yoss]

9 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

 

Anyhoo,  here's a picture of a bus:

I know I keep saying this, but this is what the future of public transport should look like. This looks like a Prague example. I'm more familiar with Brno trolleybuses personally and I've never been on one that wasn't being driven like a scalded cat. They really do fly. I don't know what they weigh but obviously they don't have to carry batteries or an engine around with them. 

Fortunately there are still lots of Škoda trolleybuses over there. Also Solaris are very common around eastern Europe. They are a Polish company but still use Škoda running gear. 

[lisbon_road]

8 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I know I keep saying this, but this is what the future of public transport should look like. This looks like a Prague example. I'm more familiar with Brno trolleybuses personally and I've never been on one that wasn't being driven like a scalded cat. They really do fly. I don't know what they weigh but obviously they don't have to carry batteries or an engine around with them. 

Fortunately there are still lots of Škoda trolleybuses over there. Also Solaris are very common around eastern Europe. They are a Polish company but still use Škoda running gear. 

Couldn't agree more.  We might be autoshitters, but we know that people want to get away from use of fossil fuels, but batteries aren't great are they.  The answer...........

[108]

8 hours ago, martc said:

A CIE training coach turning Singers Corner from Grand Parade onto Washington St, Cork in the early 1980’s.

What is it?

Leyland Leopard L2. 
CIE bodywork, built in Spa Road Works. 
 

This is a bus, not a coach. Used countrywide, sometimes on quite long runs. 
 

Solid, reliable buses. 
 

Edit: Beaten to it. 

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, 108 said:

Leyland Leopard L2. 
CIE bodywork, built in Spa Road Works. 
 

This is a bus, not a coach. Used countrywide, sometimes on quite long runs. 
 

Solid, reliable buses. 
 

Edit: Beaten to it. 

At Singer's Corner, No.79, Grand Parade, which I walked past yesterday, on the way to the English Market. Named for the Singer sewing machine shop that stood there since the 1870s, and which closed in May.

[High Jetter]

7 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Named for the Singer sewing machine shop that stood there since the 1870s, and which closed in May.

Oh that's sad. Sewed Rootes, though.

[108]

15 hours ago, artdjones said:

At Singer's Corner, No.79, Grand Parade, which I walked past yesterday, on the way to the English Market. Named for the Singer sewing machine shop that stood there since the 1870s, and which closed in May.

I know it. Sad that the Singer shop is gone. It was a local landmark, even for a non-local like me. 

[artdjones]

7 minutes ago, 108 said:

I know it. Sad that the Singer shop is gone. It was a local landmark, even for a non-local like me. 

The opposite corner, No. 80,  was known as Finn's Corner, after Finn's Sports Shop that was in business there from 1879 - 2019. So two landmarks gone.

[martc]

21 hours ago, 108 said:

This is a bus, not a coach.

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a bus and a coach?

Are buses request stop and coaches something that run more or less non stop from A to B?

Or is a coach pre-paid and a bus paid for on alighting?

[Inspector Morose]

2 hours ago, martc said:

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a bus and a coach?

Are buses request stop and coaches something that run more or less non stop from A to B?

Or is a coach pre-paid and a bus paid for on alighting?

It's a big of a minefield really as a coach can be used as a bus and a bus can be used for coach duties. 

There are differences between "local service" and ordinary PSVs as far as regulations go, seatbelts  and load and speed rating on tyres are big ones; you don't need windscreen washers on a local service bus but you do on a coach. On a coach, you need a first aid kit but not on a local service bus, the list of idiosyncrasies are endless. And that's before you go into accessibility regulations (schedule 6 annex 7 and the like) it's a positive minefield!

A coach usually has plush, seatbelted seats and will be used for hire and reward (trips to seaside, excursions etc) and is limited to 100kph. A bus plods around housing estates and has more basic seating and is usually limited to around 50-55mph. There used to be a third classification of dual purpose and they had slightly plusher seating than a bus and was used for longer distance routes with fewer stops. Anything capable of sustaining over 60mph needs a full set of seatbelts.

Welcome to my world. I have to work that little lot out (and the differing regulations that apply) every day in my job!

[artdjones]

8 minutes ago, martc said:

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a bus and a coach?

Are buses request stop and coaches something that run more or less non stop from A to B?

Or is a coach pre-paid and a bus paid for on alighting?

Coaches have much more luxurious upholstery, and are used for touring or long distance express work, generally. Although in Bus Grant days quite a number of operators bought coaches with bus type doors, claiming the grant. They had to be used for a certain amount of stage carriage work to get it. Cardiff Corporation bought one or two Leyland Leopard coaches, using them on their longer distance routes so as the grant could be claimed.

Just don't ask a bus enthusiast what constitutes a dual-purpose vehicle.

[vtec-e]

On 23/07/2025 at 19:35, Yoss said:

And we all know the reason for the red and white stripes on the grill of the Guy Arab don't we? Well you would if you lived in Southampton. Southampton FC won the FA Cup in 1976. It's the only thing they've ever won and they never stop going on about it. Anyway this was the bus they used for their open top tour afterwards which I saw simply due to its proximity to our house rather than me having any affinity to the football team. I was 8 years old. 

The stripes were re applied for the fortieth anniversary of the original run (which will soon be 50 years ago!)

I saw that bus on that day in 1976, though not the grille as there were too many people in the way I had an A-level exam the next morning, so just nipped down to Shirley High Street to get a view.

[vtec-e]

Another  Aldershot & District vehicle, a 1950 Dennis Lancet

 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Well what the fuck is it then?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceq7qld10rjo

[dollywobbler]

9 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Well what the fuck is it then?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceq7qld10rjo

The Netherlands has some double-bendy not-a-bus things like this.

[N19]

14 hours ago, martc said:

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a bus and a coach?

Are buses request stop and coaches something that run more or less non stop from A to B?

Or is a coach pre-paid and a bus paid for on alighting?

One thing that I have learnt is to never, ever, ever describe a coach driver as a "bus driver". It appears to be the quickest way of upsetting them possible!

[lisbon_road]

Buses and coaches.  Just for fun: many of you will know that the islands of Malta and Gozo had large numbers of British coaches which were used as buses.  Perhaps they were cheap?  They were often, as seen in this picture, very well turned out and maintained.  They sometimes had bus seats, but when packed, it was no joke to get off sometimes.  I think this one is a Plaxton bodied Bristol LH with a Leyland engine, a rare enough vehicle at anytime.  It might still exist - a surprising number of them are tucked away.  

[83C]

1 hour ago, N19 said:

One thing that I have learnt is to never, ever, ever describe a coach driver as a "bus driver". It appears to be the quickest way of upsetting them possible!

I used to do it on purpose. It’s the same licence, same tests. Coach drivers getting prickly because they see themselves as somehow superior to service bus drivers is something that should have the piss taken out of at every opportunity. 

[N19]

3 minutes ago, 83C said:

I used to do it on purpose. It’s the same licence, same tests. Coach drivers getting prickly because they see themselves as somehow superior to service bus drivers is something that should have the piss taken out of at every opportunity. 

Is there much difference in pay between coaches and buses? What happens when a coach is used to cover a stage carriage service?

I remember that, some years ago at least, LRT Lothian paid drivers of double-deckers more than single-deckers which apparently caused quite a bit of upset.

[83C]

27 minutes ago, N19 said:

Is there much difference in pay between coaches and buses? What happens when a coach is used to cover a stage carriage service?

I remember that, some years ago at least, LRT Lothian paid drivers of double-deckers more than single-deckers which apparently caused quite a bit of upset.

I’m a bit out of touch with pay these days but I can’t imagine it has changed much, coach drivers were paid less because they were expected to make up their money in tips. 

In 2010 I did a few weeks for a coach operator in Camborne who paid £7p/h (FirstBus were paying £8.10 on service work) but reduced this to almost minimum wage at £6p/h if it was a double drive - two drivers sharing the driving to maximise tacho hours (allowing a 21hr run). The owner said it was so he could be competitive, I told him it was because he was a greedy fuck. I remember walking out with him shouting ‘you’ll never work for me again!!’ from his office after I’d told him to ram the job up his arse because I wasn’t going to work for fuck all. He was right, I never will work for him again because he treated his staff like shit and did everything possible to withhold every penny in pay. 

The best job I had in buses and coaches was with Tanat Valley in Mid Wales, the pay wasn’t great (though not the worst) but the work was steady, the owners took care of the staff and it didn’t matter whether you did a tour or service work - the pay was the same. 

The last job I had before my CPC expired was in 2018 working as a freelance driver, the three companies I worked for would only pay me between £9-10p/h - same as their full time PAYE employees despite not having to pay for uniform, NI or tax for my services.

[warch]

On 23/07/2025 at 10:23, Leyland Worldmaster said:

I do know that many drivers lack a place to rest and to eat meals.

I do know that many routes lack provisions for toilets.

I do know that drivers will freeze in the winter and overheat in the summer.

I do know that there's precious little support for drivers assaulted on duty.

I do know that there's a toxic atmosphere of blame and fault-finding which leads to job insecurity.

Perhaps then, this is a structural problem with the UK. It is fair to say that any Socially Necessary occupation is seen as a 'cost' and as such has no value.

Sorry for butchering your post but I do tend to agree.

Pay and conditions for people like truckers or bus/coach drivers is pretty poor really especially given the training, responsibility and hours worked. It doesn't help that people who do these jobs are regarded as low status, probably why professional drivers are usually such miserable bastards. 

It really is a holdover from British class attitudes, note the amount of opprobrium about pay rises for train drivers who are well paid but also poorly regarded because they are perceived as doing an easy job by other working folk or disdained by the white collar mob. 

That last point about Socially Necessary occupations is so true it makes me quite sad, we've never really valued those who actually do essential works in this country, and I see little prospect of that ever changing.