Bus Shite

[AnthonyG]

A local charity shop has got an Arriva Group bus directory 2006 for sale, it’s up for grabs for just ONE British pound.

This is a A5 sized paperback book, approx 100 pages, all the buses the group run that year, including outside the UK, possibly with reg numbers, fleet codes/IDs (can’t remember  the details but certainly numbers related to individual buses) many photos.

If anyone wants it, and it’s still there Saturday, I can purchase it and post at cost, or it can be delivered to the next FoD event.

Let me know via reply here or PM. No guarantees no local bus spotter has not already snaffled it mind. 

[cms206]

Three days in the new gig and so far, so good; absolute modal shift from Stagecoach. I've thoroughly enjoyed plodding round the suburbs of an evening in my little Optare with radio on, and of course now no cash handling - we operate with vaults.

Y15 HOB has been my steed all week and was new to Shetland Islands Council as YJ59 NNF.

[Weird Car]

So not long back from covering for Camborne depot, this was my steed for the week, Sprinter bus, very different from the MMC’s and Wright Streetlites we’re used to down Portsmouth

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, cms206 said:

Three days in the new gig and so far, so good; absolute modal shift from Stagecoach. I've thoroughly enjoyed plodding round the suburbs of an evening in my little Optare with radio on, and of course now no cash handling - we operate with vaults.

Y15 HOB has been my steed all week and was new to Shetland Islands Council as YJ59 NNF.

I *may* have a photo of that on its way to the ferry the day it went up north...though if I can find it is another matter.  Noticed it because there were three brand new at the time plated plain white buses (think the other two were E200s) pretty much in convoy heading into the ferry terminal.

[500tops]

[UltraWomble]

Fishwicks running day today

[martc]

For a surprising Ikarus fact see page 193 of the Railshite thread (guess what it's about, not unrelated to the Nationals above...).

Meantime some London bus action back in the day -

Clerkenwell Road EC1, 1977.

 

 

[martc]

We used to have a Post Bus running near us, it was a Peugeot estate, like this -

[martc]

A Berliet PCM on the No 73 service from Gare d’Orsay to La Défense.
 

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, martc said:

 

Hailsham to Bodle St Green (top pic) is about 5 miles

[Yoss]

For @cms206, I have found some of my X15 photos, feel free to pass them on. These were mostly taken in the first few weeks of operation, sometime in 1989.

At Upton Park garage. 

They seemed to like posing the RMCs in photogenic positions just for the hell of it. 

Also in the garage was driver trainer RMA5. I was a little surprised to find this photo and see it was a driver trainer because this and RMA8 were also given the full X15 treatment with RM seat moquette and maroon rexine interior sidewalls and yellow ceilings. 

I'd always assumed they had come from BEL staff bus fleet but as you can see above it has no staircase at all. They took the stairs out for the driver trainers and put a window in and a single seat for the instructor. Where on earth did they find an RMA staircase even in 1989? 

Some more random shots, I don't even know where half of these are. Most of these are on the 15B. The X15 was a peak hour service only so in between the peaks they just worked normal services. Obviously the morning peak would be impossible for me to get to but I did do the odd afternoon peak but they were easier to find during the day on the 15B.

 

 

This is East Ham. 

Beckton was a strange place to go as it hadn't been built yet. It wasn't quite in Docklands but in the industrial areas around it. 

 

I can't remember how many they had now but I seem to have got most of them here. 

Also at Beckton, in the days when tendered routes didn't require new buses, or even red buses for that matter. 

 

RML 2760. For a while London Buses decreed that there should be no showbuses and that they must be returned to standard. Most garages had a showbus, a bus that was polished and pampered above all the others. It was a short lived thing because everybody decided it was a pointless and stupid decision. Why couldn't you have one bus that the staff could be proud of and take to shows? Anyway this is the closest RML 2760 came to looking like a normal bus, though it still has gold numbers and fleet names and chrome light trims but somebody has pinched the badge. 

A Routemaster, two classic Transits and a Woolworths, how much more of a classic 80s street scene can you get. 

 

 

By sheer coincidence, just this very morning, I finished building a model of the front of Upton Park Garage! 

It is for my railway in the loft. My railway is European so HO gauge whereas this is the slightly larger British OO gauge but they aren't that different. I was more concerned the buses themselves would look too big but I don't think they do. Not enough for me to worry about anyway.

This isn't finished yet obviously. There will be a tram running past the front of the garage. 

But it will be a German Düwag tram of course. 

You get some people who's layouts have to be perfect in every detail but mine is not one of those. I just run stuff I like so it is mostly German but covers everything from France to Hungary (I'm after some Romanian stuff but it's very hard to come by)so I have a London bus garage in a German town. 

[LightBulbFun]

51 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Anyway this is the closest RML 2760 came to looking like a normal bus,

at least she still has her front fog light! despite being one of only 2 to 4 RML's to never officially be re-engined/referbished, she did lose her front fog light at some point, and its never been reinstated sadly

at some point also while in service on the 15H, she was repainted with the 1980's white roundel livery, but i dont think she ever ran like that in period service? AFAIK she always managed to retain some form of the LONDON TRANSPORT scheme 

 

 

I love the pictures! I always felt a bit sorry for the RMA's I always felt they got the short end of the stick, in that the one time that London Transport themselves tried to put them into revenue service on the 175 IIRC, they didn't even bother with blind boxes, and then wondered why the service failed! but the trainers with their staircase removed, I have always wanted to see an interior shot of one of those, was there just a gaping hole in the upper deck now? LOL and also how did they remove the staircase in the first place? they must of had to take it out in sections to get it through the front doors or such

IIRC RMA5 and RMA8 I think ended up in portugal, with their staircases reversed for an offside entrance! 

 

and similarly also RMF's despite these having a front blind box, London Transport refused to put those into service at all, I always wondered how things might of gone, if RMA's and RMF's where properly up-fitted and put into London service, and of course, theres the big overarching question, what if London Transport did the right thing and put the FRM into production, rather then order ill-fated DMS class, but I am digressing now  

[666jjp]

Barking road near West ham's football ground, I used to live not far from there.

The council would never let West ham expand their ground because of the bus station behind it, but as soon as West ham got their new ground the bus station closed.

[Yoss]

Thanks, I know where it is now. I was obviously stood there watching the buses run in to the garage. They had a one way system, run in via Priory Road and leave via the other end of the garage in Redclyffe  Road. 

[Yoss]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

at least she still has her front fog light! despite being one of only 2 to 4 RML's to never officially be re-engined/referbished, she did lose her front fog light at some point, and its never been reinstated sadly

at some point also while in service on the 15H, she was repainted with the 1980's white roundel livery, but i dont think she ever ran like that in period service? AFAIK she always managed to retain some form of the LONDON TRANSPORT scheme 

 

 

I love the pictures! I always felt a bit sorry for the RMA's I always felt they got the short end of the stick, in that the one time that London Transport themselves tried to put them into revenue service on the 175 IIRC, they didn't even bother with blind boxes, and then wondered why the service failed! but the trainers with their staircase removed, I have always wanted to see an interior shot of one of those, was there just a gaping hole in the upper deck now? LOL and also how did they remove the staircase in the first place? they must of had to take it out in sections to get it through the front doors or such

IIRC RMA5 and RMA8 I think ended up in portugal, with their staircases reversed for an offside entrance! 

 

and similarly also RMF's despite these having a front blind box, London Transport refused to put those into service at all, I always wondered how things might of gone, if RMA's and RMF's where properly up-fitted and put into London service, and of course, theres the big overarching question, what if London Transport did the right thing and put the FRM into production, rather then order ill-fated DMS class, but I am digressing now  

That had never occurred to me about 2760. Certainly ever since I new it it was Upton Parks showbus. It would only have been about 15 years old then which seems mad in itself as we have Tridents and Scanias that age running in Southampton now.

But wether it was ever considered just another bus I don't know. It was probably due it's first repaint about 1973 which was about the time the white roundel was coming in so it might have got one then. 

Your challenge for this evening is to go and find a picture of it in the 1970s. 

[Yoss]

Also, about the RMAs. Yes there was a gaping hole where the stairs used to be with a slightly raised seat for the instructor to sit and an emergency brake handle in front of him just in case. 

The upper seats were mostly left in place but you'd need a ladder to reach them. 

[AnthonyG]

Collected this for @SmokinWaffle - rather better/more detailed than I remembered - 220 pages and independently published rather than from Arriva: 

There were a stack of Stagecoach Group ones as well - all years from 1998-2006, same publisher. 

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, Yoss said:

That had never occurred to me about 2760. Certainly ever since I new it it was Upton Parks showbus. It would only have been about 15 years old then which seems mad in itself as we have Tridents and Scanias that age running in Southampton now.

But wether it was ever considered just another bus I don't know. It was probably due it's first repaint about 1973 which was about the time the white roundel was coming in so it might have got one then. 

Your challenge for this evening is to go and find a picture of it in the 1970s. 

well like a man with special shoes, I stand corrected!  

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-55873

thats from 1978, and if thats when it was done, then I dont think it lasted very long at all by 1983, it was back in as delivered livery 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/solenteer/52193832548/

(interesting to see it had highlighted "Michelin X" tyres back then, as I recall it having the same in the early 2000's)

22 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Also, about the RMAs. Yes there was a gaping hole where the stairs used to be with a slightly raised seat for the instructor to sit and an emergency brake handle in front of him just in case. 

The upper seats were mostly left in place but you'd need a ladder to reach them. 

I wonder if anyone ever got a ladder, climbed into the top deck, pulled the ladder up, then half way through whatever training route they where doing, stuck their head through the gaping hole, scaring the crap the crap out of the instructor?

"Boo!"

[EyesWeldedShut]

<giffermode>
This one is in The Aldwych.  Square looking, modernish building on the left of the bus is on the junction of The Strand/Waterloo bridge. Road to right by Cookies Patisserie is Catherine Street . 

[Yoss]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

well like a man with special shoes, I stand corrected!  

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-55873

thats from 1978, and if thats when it was done, then I dont think it lasted very long at all by 1983, it was back in as delivered livery 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/solenteer/52193832548/

(interesting to see it had highlighted "Michelin X" tyres back then, as I recall it having the same in the early 2000's)

I wonder if anyone ever got a ladder, climbed into the top deck, pulled the ladder up, then half way through whatever training route they where doing, stuck their head through the gaping hole, scaring the crap the crap out of the instructor?

"Boo!"

Well that was quick! I must admit it looks odd to me seeing that number in white. It looks good though, I much prefer them with white stripe and roundels, I may have mentioned that about twenty times already. The gold names and numbers only stand out if the sun is a certain way, they usually blend into the red. 

1983 was about the time I started getting in to these things so the second picture confirms the feeling that I've only ever known it as a showbus. 

[Yoss]

10 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

<giffermode>
This one is in The Aldwych.  Square looking, modernish building on the left of the bus is on the junction of The Strand/Waterloo bridge. Road to right by Cookies Patisserie is Catherine Street . 

Thanks, I did recognise that one but I couldn't be bothered to caption every photo, sorry! First thing I thought with this picture was I wonder how much longer that Renault van lasted.

[jon.k]

29 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Collected this for @SmokinWaffle - rather better/more detailed than I remembered - 220 pages and independently published rather than from Arriva: 

There were a stack of Stagecoach Group ones as well - all years from 1998-2006, same publisher. 

I like this series.

[EyesWeldedShut]

Just now, Yoss said:

Thanks, I did recognise that one but I couldn't be bothered to caption every photo, sorry! First thing I thought with this picture was I wonder how much longer that Renault van lasted.

It looks a bit decrepit!  - I think there's another (blue) coming out of Catherine Street with a MetroCab(?) in front of it and there's a shonky Mercedes 7.5 tonner over on the left.
One of the other piccies (one with the Group 4 wagon behind) is the north end of Trafalgar Square at the bottom of Charing Cross Road with Canada House in the background.
I don't know much of London east of The City so I'm pretty well stumped for the rest.

The bus is showing a wee sign "The Beckton Express" is that an in-joke or a genuine thing at the time?

[Yoss]

3 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

It looks a bit decrepit!  - I think there's another (blue) coming out of Catherine Street with a MetroCab(?) in front of it and there's a shonky Mercedes 7.5 tonner over on the left.
One of the other piccies (one with the Group 4 wagon behind) is the north end of Trafalgar Square at the bottom of Charing Cross Road with Canada House in the background.
I don't know much of London east of The City so I'm pretty well stumped for the rest.

The bus is showing a wee sign "The Beckton Express" is that an in-joke or a genuine thing at the time?

Ha ha, no joke, it is where they went. They ran limited stop express from town to East Ham along the normal 15 route then carried on to East Beckton. As per my previous comment it was weird because they hadn't built it yet, the place was a wasteland. But they overhauled a whole load of RMCs and two RMAs from the driver trainer fleets to operate it.

And overhauled them well too. Not just the shiny red and gold paintwork, they were all retrimmed with standard RM moquette, fully repainted inside and even had new Treadmaster flooring. They were essentially new buses. All work was done by Upton Park themselves I believe. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Ha ha, no joke, it is where they went. They ran limited stop express from town to East Ham along the normal 15 route then carried on to East Beckton. As per my previous comment it was weird because they hadn't built it yet, the place was a wasteland. But they overhauled a whole load of RMCs and two RMAs from the driver trainer fleets to operate it.

And overhauled them well too. Not just the shiny red and gold paintwork, they were all retrimmed with standard RM moquette, fully repainted inside and even had new Treadmaster flooring. They were essentially new buses. All work was done by Upton Park themselves I believe. 

I was baby-Plod 1981-86 along the north side of Oxford Street and we'd hop on/off the open bus platforms pretty much at will during the day as we'd know exactly which bus went where in the W1 postal area - outside of that it got a bit fuzzy! Sometimes we'd even pop upstairs and have a seat to see what/who we could spot as the bus trundled along - you did see a few familiar faces that way.
There were comparatively few  buses going east of Oxford Circus from Marble Arch so you had to either do a running jump off the thing at Oxford Circus or else get off down in Regent Street and walk back up to Oxford Street - bit fraught as that was not 'our ground' down there and it was very much frowned on to be not 'on your beat' or making your way directly to/from it.
Best LT bus anecdote I can come up with was one day when I was stood in by the luggage bit at the foot of the stairs with my helmet behind my back eyeing up the street  (conductor was upstairs likely ) and a lady runs up and jumps on as we're stationery at a set of traffic lights.
"Sorry luv, does this one go to Tottenham Court Road?"
"Yes mam"
"Oh, great. I though you was a copper for a minute there"
Sheesh.

[cms206]

@Yoss you're a gentleman and a scholar - I'll pass those onto Glenn and will report back if he fires back any titbits.

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, Yoss said:

And overhauled them well too. Not just the shiny red and gold paintwork, they were all retrimmed with standard RM moquette, fully repainted inside and even had new Treadmaster flooring. They were essentially new buses. All work was done by Upton Park themselves I believe. 

see thats interesting, because I know some RCL's (Routemaster coach lengthened) got put into city work after London Transport bought all the RM's back from London Country, and its said their Achilles hill was the coach flooring quickly wore out, and then most where withdrawn and scrapped, and this always struck me as quite odd, why did they not just put some fresh normal flooring down? especially given they being RCL's means they surely would of been worth keeping for the high loading Central city work? I know London Transport valued their RML's for this reason, despite many RM's being withdrawn in the 1980's no RML's where actively withdrawn, so I always wondered why where RCL's not put into service with them? I know one RCL even gained a regular open platform rear end after a nasty rear end shunt, and even that one was sold on in the 1980's somewhere on youtube there is a video of that in the 1980's with the independent it ended up with during deregulation, and its so weird seeing what looks like a normal RML, but in some out-of-london 1980's deregulation livery, it was a proper brain scratcher for me until a (one of many) lightbulb went off in my head and I realised thats not an RML at all, thats the one RCL that was fitted with a regular open back platform

[busmansholiday]

On 25/08/2024 at 09:29, cms206 said:

 

 

Have those small side lockers been nailed shut to stop them falling off yet !

[cms206]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

see thats interesting, because I know some RCL's (Routemaster coach lengthened) got put into city work after London Transport bought all the RM's back from London Country, and its said their Achilles hill was the coach flooring quickly wore out, and then most where withdrawn and scrapped, and this always struck me as quite odd, why did they not just put some fresh normal flooring down? especially given they being RCL's means they surely would of been worth keeping for the high loading Central city work? I know London Transport valued their RML's for this reason, despite many RM's being withdrawn in the 1980's no RML's where actively withdrawn, so I always wondered why where RCL's not put into service with them? I know one RCL even gained a regular open platform rear end after a nasty rear end shunt, and even that one was sold on in the 1980's somewhere on youtube there is a video of that in the 1980's with the independent it ended up with during deregulation, and its so weird seeing what looks like a normal RML, but in some out-of-london 1980's deregulation livery, it was a proper brain scratcher for me until a (one of many) lightbulb went off in my head and I realised thats not an RML at all, thats the one RCL that was fitted with a regular open back platform

There was also RML900, bought by Clydeside in the 1980s and rebuilt for further service; if memory serves it lasted til about 1993 with Clydeside, repaintee in the standard RM scheme shown here by it's less lengthy sisters.

They also ran an RMA in coach livery.

[83C]

23 hours ago, Yoss said:

 

 

RMC1490 is now local to me, with Regional Transport in Shrewsbury. The owner (who is something of a London bus nerd) took it down to Imberbus this year:

Sticking with the half cab theme a friend of mine has just had his Bristol FLF restoration finished. This is how EOO 590 looked when I last saw it:

It was actually in a far worse state than it looks here. It got dragged around several storage sites before the current owner bought it from Dead Dog Travel in around 2013, by which time the floors were shot, interior pretty much ruined, framework hanging on by a thread...

This weekend just gone (photo credit Martyn Hearson/Reliance Busworks):

I have to admit I thought this one was too far gone but its a credit to RBW and the owner.