Bus Shite

[cms206]

Also @Yoss hope you don't mind, I pinched that photo of Sullivans T85 and sent it over to my mate who is a GS at BK; he started as a conductor on the X15 at U and now has the 9th or 10th longest continuous East London service at BK.

[Yoss]

8 minutes ago, cms206 said:

I've got my TM CPC... 😉

It all falls slowly in to place! 

1 minute ago, cms206 said:

Also @Yoss hope you don't mind, I pinched that photo of Sullivans T85 and sent it over to my mate who is a GS at BK; he started as a conductor on the X15 at U and now has the 9th or 10th longest continuous East London service at BK.

No problem at all. Unsurprisingly I've got some photos somewhere upstairs of the first week of the X15s. I'll add them to the list of stuff to find. 

 

But back to the Nineties chapter 3. I don't know if it's still a thing but public transport used to be free on New Years Eve. So, December 30th 1994 Colin gets a phone call from one of his old contacts at Alperton Garage asking if he would like to come and drive for them tomorrow night. Colins instant reply was only if I can drive my own bus! His mate wasn't in a position to answer that and said he'd get back to him. He rang back surprisingly quickly and said can we have two buses! 

So I got the phone call with barely 24 hours notice asking if I wanted to conduct. Even if I had made any plans I wasn't going to miss that was I? Unfortunately I only took three photos all night as it was so busy.

The first is outside Alperton Garage where we arrived nice and early to get blinded up for the N89 (Central London to Uxbridge. It has since been renumbered the N207 and the N89 is a very different route going to Erith). 

The number blinds are same as the rear number for the one man buses and the finals are again interchangeable with Metros and Titans. Unfortunately they didn't have any intermediates as I don't know when RMs last worked from Alperton but Colins own 715 blind covered part of the route. 

They wanted one bus to work from Trafalgar Square and one from Tottenham Court Road and me and my driver Peter got the TCR duty. And so it was I got to work a Routemaster in full Bournemouth green livery on an actual LT service bus from London to Uxbridge all night. 

This is the bus stand underneath Centrepoint at TCR, still with the legendary Astoria in the background. This was tragically demolished to build the Crossrail Station. 

The pictures aren't as good as I'd like, as I said they are all time exposure but I didn't have a tripod with me so I was having to find convenient walls or railings to lean on. 

So starting at midnight we did one full trip to Uxbridge then a short journey to Ealing Broadway and back. Of course the buses were all free so there were no fares to worry about. All I had to do was look after the platform and tell people where we were going and when we got there. Or answer stupid questions like 'are you Bobby Gillespie?' This girl was convinced I was Bobby Gillespie despite the fact I was very obviously not Scottish and Bobby himself would very likely have better things to do on New Years Eve. Still, I got a kiss and a hug when she got off so that was a win. Just for the record nobody has ever asked me that before or since. 

Now back at Tottenham Court Road it was getting towards the time Peter would need his break but he knew there was a 24 hour canteen at Uxbridge Garage. We had about about 45 minutes to get there even though the timetable was well over an hour but Peter reckoned he could do it. He was well known as a fast but smooth driver. He used to have his own small Watford based Routemaster business, Green Rover using mostly RMAs but had already decided that working for other people was a much easier way to earn a living. Watford was awash with Routemasters in the early 90s.

And so began the fastest ride I'd ever had in Central London. I had to convince some concerned passengers that the driver did know what he was doing and that we were trying to hit Uxbridge by 05.30 or else we were going to have to stop while the driver had a half hour break. I think most people were enjoying it, after all most of them were various levels of blathered. 

We made it with about two minutes in hand. Uxbridge 05.30. 

 

As mentioned, some of Peters buses, two RMAs at Watford Junction a few years before the rest of this post took place. 

 

And some other souvenirs of the night that I still have. The manager at Alperton gave us four ties each. 

These are from before Centrewest were taken over by First. Of course the general public would have no idea that Alperton Garage code is ON so it looks a bit odd to have ON ON ON ON ON ON ON etc written all over the tie but I know so that's fine. I wore all four on the night but not at the same time. 

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, Yoss said:

The pictures aren't as good as I'd like, 

I think your night time shots look most excellent! I would love to see the originals scanned in with a proper film scanner or such or at least the prints done with a decent flatbed so they can be enjoyed in all their glory

I always enjoy a night time shot of an RT/RM with all the Tungsten bulbs glowing brilliantly but warmly  

27 minutes ago, Yoss said:

And so began the fastest ride I'd ever had in Central London. I had to convince some concerned passengers that the driver did know what he was doing

that made me chuckle it reminds of the time when at East Grinstead running day with my sister, and I found myself on RT4779

and the driver was *not* hanging about, properly bombing it down the country lanes, and the best bit is, I had the seat right behind the driver, however the window behind the driver was missing, and and a few passengers where commenting on his speed, but one of them told me to tickle the drivers ear! I was like no thanks I rather I am not responsible for sending an RT on an off road excursion!

but the RT itself being driven at speed was lots of fun   sadly the speedometer did not work so I dont know how fast we where going, probably not all that fast in the scheme of things but it felt/sounded/looked like it!

[Yoss]

That reminds me of the old Blue Triangle route 622 from Harlow to Great Yeldham. A summer Sunday route contracted from Essex County Council. The contract specified the buses must be older than Routemasters (this was around 1987, RMs were still considered too modern for a heritage route!) but the timings were mental.

But in some ways you felt safer in an RT as they are so much smaller than any modern bus so they fitted the country lanes better. 

They did have RCL 2239 as a back up vehicle if one of the RTs wasn't available. I once did the garage run from Harlow to Romford down the M11 (they actually lived in Rainham but they dropped me off in Romford) and the speedo was working but it went off the clock! Obviously an RM speedo only goes up to 60 but the needle was on at least 65. That is officially the fastest Routemaster I have ever been on. 

Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have picture upstairs, I'll add them to the list! 

[AnthonyG]

A local charity shop has got an Arriva Group bus directory 2006 for sale, it’s up for grabs for just ONE British pound.

This is a A5 sized paperback book, approx 100 pages, all the buses the group run that year, including outside the UK, possibly with reg numbers, fleet codes/IDs (can’t remember  the details but certainly numbers related to individual buses) many photos.

If anyone wants it, and it’s still there Saturday, I can purchase it and post at cost, or it can be delivered to the next FoD event.

Let me know via reply here or PM. No guarantees no local bus spotter has not already snaffled it mind. 

[cms206]

Three days in the new gig and so far, so good; absolute modal shift from Stagecoach. I've thoroughly enjoyed plodding round the suburbs of an evening in my little Optare with radio on, and of course now no cash handling - we operate with vaults.

Y15 HOB has been my steed all week and was new to Shetland Islands Council as YJ59 NNF.

[Weird Car]

So not long back from covering for Camborne depot, this was my steed for the week, Sprinter bus, very different from the MMC’s and Wright Streetlites we’re used to down Portsmouth

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, cms206 said:

Three days in the new gig and so far, so good; absolute modal shift from Stagecoach. I've thoroughly enjoyed plodding round the suburbs of an evening in my little Optare with radio on, and of course now no cash handling - we operate with vaults.

Y15 HOB has been my steed all week and was new to Shetland Islands Council as YJ59 NNF.

I *may* have a photo of that on its way to the ferry the day it went up north...though if I can find it is another matter.  Noticed it because there were three brand new at the time plated plain white buses (think the other two were E200s) pretty much in convoy heading into the ferry terminal.

[500tops]

[UltraWomble]

Fishwicks running day today

[martc]

For a surprising Ikarus fact see page 193 of the Railshite thread (guess what it's about, not unrelated to the Nationals above...).

Meantime some London bus action back in the day -

Clerkenwell Road EC1, 1977.

 

 

[martc]

We used to have a Post Bus running near us, it was a Peugeot estate, like this -

[martc]

A Berliet PCM on the No 73 service from Gare d’Orsay to La Défense.
 

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, martc said:

 

Hailsham to Bodle St Green (top pic) is about 5 miles

[Yoss]

For @cms206, I have found some of my X15 photos, feel free to pass them on. These were mostly taken in the first few weeks of operation, sometime in 1989.

At Upton Park garage. 

They seemed to like posing the RMCs in photogenic positions just for the hell of it. 

Also in the garage was driver trainer RMA5. I was a little surprised to find this photo and see it was a driver trainer because this and RMA8 were also given the full X15 treatment with RM seat moquette and maroon rexine interior sidewalls and yellow ceilings. 

I'd always assumed they had come from BEL staff bus fleet but as you can see above it has no staircase at all. They took the stairs out for the driver trainers and put a window in and a single seat for the instructor. Where on earth did they find an RMA staircase even in 1989? 

Some more random shots, I don't even know where half of these are. Most of these are on the 15B. The X15 was a peak hour service only so in between the peaks they just worked normal services. Obviously the morning peak would be impossible for me to get to but I did do the odd afternoon peak but they were easier to find during the day on the 15B.

 

 

This is East Ham. 

Beckton was a strange place to go as it hadn't been built yet. It wasn't quite in Docklands but in the industrial areas around it. 

 

I can't remember how many they had now but I seem to have got most of them here. 

Also at Beckton, in the days when tendered routes didn't require new buses, or even red buses for that matter. 

 

RML 2760. For a while London Buses decreed that there should be no showbuses and that they must be returned to standard. Most garages had a showbus, a bus that was polished and pampered above all the others. It was a short lived thing because everybody decided it was a pointless and stupid decision. Why couldn't you have one bus that the staff could be proud of and take to shows? Anyway this is the closest RML 2760 came to looking like a normal bus, though it still has gold numbers and fleet names and chrome light trims but somebody has pinched the badge. 

A Routemaster, two classic Transits and a Woolworths, how much more of a classic 80s street scene can you get. 

 

 

By sheer coincidence, just this very morning, I finished building a model of the front of Upton Park Garage! 

It is for my railway in the loft. My railway is European so HO gauge whereas this is the slightly larger British OO gauge but they aren't that different. I was more concerned the buses themselves would look too big but I don't think they do. Not enough for me to worry about anyway.

This isn't finished yet obviously. There will be a tram running past the front of the garage. 

But it will be a German Düwag tram of course. 

You get some people who's layouts have to be perfect in every detail but mine is not one of those. I just run stuff I like so it is mostly German but covers everything from France to Hungary (I'm after some Romanian stuff but it's very hard to come by)so I have a London bus garage in a German town. 

[LightBulbFun]

51 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Anyway this is the closest RML 2760 came to looking like a normal bus,

at least she still has her front fog light! despite being one of only 2 to 4 RML's to never officially be re-engined/referbished, she did lose her front fog light at some point, and its never been reinstated sadly

at some point also while in service on the 15H, she was repainted with the 1980's white roundel livery, but i dont think she ever ran like that in period service? AFAIK she always managed to retain some form of the LONDON TRANSPORT scheme 

 

 

I love the pictures! I always felt a bit sorry for the RMA's I always felt they got the short end of the stick, in that the one time that London Transport themselves tried to put them into revenue service on the 175 IIRC, they didn't even bother with blind boxes, and then wondered why the service failed! but the trainers with their staircase removed, I have always wanted to see an interior shot of one of those, was there just a gaping hole in the upper deck now? LOL and also how did they remove the staircase in the first place? they must of had to take it out in sections to get it through the front doors or such

IIRC RMA5 and RMA8 I think ended up in portugal, with their staircases reversed for an offside entrance! 

 

and similarly also RMF's despite these having a front blind box, London Transport refused to put those into service at all, I always wondered how things might of gone, if RMA's and RMF's where properly up-fitted and put into London service, and of course, theres the big overarching question, what if London Transport did the right thing and put the FRM into production, rather then order ill-fated DMS class, but I am digressing now  

[666jjp]

Barking road near West ham's football ground, I used to live not far from there.

The council would never let West ham expand their ground because of the bus station behind it, but as soon as West ham got their new ground the bus station closed.

[Yoss]

Thanks, I know where it is now. I was obviously stood there watching the buses run in to the garage. They had a one way system, run in via Priory Road and leave via the other end of the garage in Redclyffe  Road. 

[Yoss]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

at least she still has her front fog light! despite being one of only 2 to 4 RML's to never officially be re-engined/referbished, she did lose her front fog light at some point, and its never been reinstated sadly

at some point also while in service on the 15H, she was repainted with the 1980's white roundel livery, but i dont think she ever ran like that in period service? AFAIK she always managed to retain some form of the LONDON TRANSPORT scheme 

 

 

I love the pictures! I always felt a bit sorry for the RMA's I always felt they got the short end of the stick, in that the one time that London Transport themselves tried to put them into revenue service on the 175 IIRC, they didn't even bother with blind boxes, and then wondered why the service failed! but the trainers with their staircase removed, I have always wanted to see an interior shot of one of those, was there just a gaping hole in the upper deck now? LOL and also how did they remove the staircase in the first place? they must of had to take it out in sections to get it through the front doors or such

IIRC RMA5 and RMA8 I think ended up in portugal, with their staircases reversed for an offside entrance! 

 

and similarly also RMF's despite these having a front blind box, London Transport refused to put those into service at all, I always wondered how things might of gone, if RMA's and RMF's where properly up-fitted and put into London service, and of course, theres the big overarching question, what if London Transport did the right thing and put the FRM into production, rather then order ill-fated DMS class, but I am digressing now  

That had never occurred to me about 2760. Certainly ever since I new it it was Upton Parks showbus. It would only have been about 15 years old then which seems mad in itself as we have Tridents and Scanias that age running in Southampton now.

But wether it was ever considered just another bus I don't know. It was probably due it's first repaint about 1973 which was about the time the white roundel was coming in so it might have got one then. 

Your challenge for this evening is to go and find a picture of it in the 1970s. 

[Yoss]

Also, about the RMAs. Yes there was a gaping hole where the stairs used to be with a slightly raised seat for the instructor to sit and an emergency brake handle in front of him just in case. 

The upper seats were mostly left in place but you'd need a ladder to reach them. 

[AnthonyG]

Collected this for @SmokinWaffle - rather better/more detailed than I remembered - 220 pages and independently published rather than from Arriva: 

There were a stack of Stagecoach Group ones as well - all years from 1998-2006, same publisher. 

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, Yoss said:

That had never occurred to me about 2760. Certainly ever since I new it it was Upton Parks showbus. It would only have been about 15 years old then which seems mad in itself as we have Tridents and Scanias that age running in Southampton now.

But wether it was ever considered just another bus I don't know. It was probably due it's first repaint about 1973 which was about the time the white roundel was coming in so it might have got one then. 

Your challenge for this evening is to go and find a picture of it in the 1970s. 

well like a man with special shoes, I stand corrected!  

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-55873

thats from 1978, and if thats when it was done, then I dont think it lasted very long at all by 1983, it was back in as delivered livery 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/solenteer/52193832548/

(interesting to see it had highlighted "Michelin X" tyres back then, as I recall it having the same in the early 2000's)

22 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Also, about the RMAs. Yes there was a gaping hole where the stairs used to be with a slightly raised seat for the instructor to sit and an emergency brake handle in front of him just in case. 

The upper seats were mostly left in place but you'd need a ladder to reach them. 

I wonder if anyone ever got a ladder, climbed into the top deck, pulled the ladder up, then half way through whatever training route they where doing, stuck their head through the gaping hole, scaring the crap the crap out of the instructor?

"Boo!"

[EyesWeldedShut]

<giffermode>
This one is in The Aldwych.  Square looking, modernish building on the left of the bus is on the junction of The Strand/Waterloo bridge. Road to right by Cookies Patisserie is Catherine Street . 

[Yoss]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

well like a man with special shoes, I stand corrected!  

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-55873

thats from 1978, and if thats when it was done, then I dont think it lasted very long at all by 1983, it was back in as delivered livery 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/solenteer/52193832548/

(interesting to see it had highlighted "Michelin X" tyres back then, as I recall it having the same in the early 2000's)

I wonder if anyone ever got a ladder, climbed into the top deck, pulled the ladder up, then half way through whatever training route they where doing, stuck their head through the gaping hole, scaring the crap the crap out of the instructor?

"Boo!"

Well that was quick! I must admit it looks odd to me seeing that number in white. It looks good though, I much prefer them with white stripe and roundels, I may have mentioned that about twenty times already. The gold names and numbers only stand out if the sun is a certain way, they usually blend into the red. 

1983 was about the time I started getting in to these things so the second picture confirms the feeling that I've only ever known it as a showbus. 

[Yoss]

10 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

<giffermode>
This one is in The Aldwych.  Square looking, modernish building on the left of the bus is on the junction of The Strand/Waterloo bridge. Road to right by Cookies Patisserie is Catherine Street . 

Thanks, I did recognise that one but I couldn't be bothered to caption every photo, sorry! First thing I thought with this picture was I wonder how much longer that Renault van lasted.

[jon.k]

29 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Collected this for @SmokinWaffle - rather better/more detailed than I remembered - 220 pages and independently published rather than from Arriva: 

There were a stack of Stagecoach Group ones as well - all years from 1998-2006, same publisher. 

I like this series.

[EyesWeldedShut]

Just now, Yoss said:

Thanks, I did recognise that one but I couldn't be bothered to caption every photo, sorry! First thing I thought with this picture was I wonder how much longer that Renault van lasted.

It looks a bit decrepit!  - I think there's another (blue) coming out of Catherine Street with a MetroCab(?) in front of it and there's a shonky Mercedes 7.5 tonner over on the left.
One of the other piccies (one with the Group 4 wagon behind) is the north end of Trafalgar Square at the bottom of Charing Cross Road with Canada House in the background.
I don't know much of London east of The City so I'm pretty well stumped for the rest.

The bus is showing a wee sign "The Beckton Express" is that an in-joke or a genuine thing at the time?

[Yoss]

3 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

It looks a bit decrepit!  - I think there's another (blue) coming out of Catherine Street with a MetroCab(?) in front of it and there's a shonky Mercedes 7.5 tonner over on the left.
One of the other piccies (one with the Group 4 wagon behind) is the north end of Trafalgar Square at the bottom of Charing Cross Road with Canada House in the background.
I don't know much of London east of The City so I'm pretty well stumped for the rest.

The bus is showing a wee sign "The Beckton Express" is that an in-joke or a genuine thing at the time?

Ha ha, no joke, it is where they went. They ran limited stop express from town to East Ham along the normal 15 route then carried on to East Beckton. As per my previous comment it was weird because they hadn't built it yet, the place was a wasteland. But they overhauled a whole load of RMCs and two RMAs from the driver trainer fleets to operate it.

And overhauled them well too. Not just the shiny red and gold paintwork, they were all retrimmed with standard RM moquette, fully repainted inside and even had new Treadmaster flooring. They were essentially new buses. All work was done by Upton Park themselves I believe. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Ha ha, no joke, it is where they went. They ran limited stop express from town to East Ham along the normal 15 route then carried on to East Beckton. As per my previous comment it was weird because they hadn't built it yet, the place was a wasteland. But they overhauled a whole load of RMCs and two RMAs from the driver trainer fleets to operate it.

And overhauled them well too. Not just the shiny red and gold paintwork, they were all retrimmed with standard RM moquette, fully repainted inside and even had new Treadmaster flooring. They were essentially new buses. All work was done by Upton Park themselves I believe. 

I was baby-Plod 1981-86 along the north side of Oxford Street and we'd hop on/off the open bus platforms pretty much at will during the day as we'd know exactly which bus went where in the W1 postal area - outside of that it got a bit fuzzy! Sometimes we'd even pop upstairs and have a seat to see what/who we could spot as the bus trundled along - you did see a few familiar faces that way.
There were comparatively few  buses going east of Oxford Circus from Marble Arch so you had to either do a running jump off the thing at Oxford Circus or else get off down in Regent Street and walk back up to Oxford Street - bit fraught as that was not 'our ground' down there and it was very much frowned on to be not 'on your beat' or making your way directly to/from it.
Best LT bus anecdote I can come up with was one day when I was stood in by the luggage bit at the foot of the stairs with my helmet behind my back eyeing up the street  (conductor was upstairs likely ) and a lady runs up and jumps on as we're stationery at a set of traffic lights.
"Sorry luv, does this one go to Tottenham Court Road?"
"Yes mam"
"Oh, great. I though you was a copper for a minute there"
Sheesh.

[cms206]

@Yoss you're a gentleman and a scholar - I'll pass those onto Glenn and will report back if he fires back any titbits.