63 replies to this topic

[nigel bickle]

Tis indeed splendid -thanks. Pics asap

[nigel bickle]

http://i204.photobuc...baystuff059.jpg
And here it is! £150 worth of big jobbie -complete with disintergrating doors!

Actually -it doesnt seem to bad. When collected it was running like a crock of shit -but a bit of petrol and 3 buckets-full of water seemed to help!
30 mins -before it got dark -back at home seemed to confirm a solid honest car- bottoms of the doors need sorting, exhaust is on borrowed time and a rear damper has died. So -it'll be pugged up and off for MOT in a week or 2!!

[MrRegieRitmo]

Cool, if I detour past yours tonight, will this be visible outside your house?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Looks quite a nice old tank NB. I wouldnt mind having a go at those door bottoms. I've got the mig and the joggler thing for making a flush joint, I would buy a metal folder and a door skinning tool too and give it my best shot, never really tried to do a proper neat job of renewing rotten door bottoms.How did you get it back, did you trailer it? Is it an auto?

[nigel bickle]

Reg -it will indeed be outside- possibly moving about as I get the MG out for an MOT, Wednesday.Mr B -you are VERY welcome -I've not yet fully recovered from my arc-eye!! I've ordered up a new welding helmet thingy (one of those auto ones) so nothing till that arrives. I reckon I'm going to 'No more nails' or 'Quick fill' it -or something to get it ticketed- and deal with those later- unless you really want to do it!!Realistically they will need doing soon -not likely to find replacements- am I!Its an Auto -so backwards on the dolly was the only real option.Too big and heavy for a Saab on a trailer- and no A frame (twas nicked! -bought but not yet collected replacement) -had to lift the rear wheels. Easy tow though -210 miles in 3 hours 20 mins.MG to mot, Flying 9 to get running reliably and then its Viceroy time...Whoowee!

[ChinaTom]

Looks quite a nice old tank NB. I wouldnt mind having a go at those door bottoms. I've got the mig and the joggler thing for making a flush joint, I would buy a metal folder and a door skinning tool too and give it my best shot, never really tried to do a proper neat job of renewing rotten door bottoms.How did you get it back, did you trailer it? Is it an auto?

If you are desperate, I have 4 nice rotten doors on the Jag.

[r.welfare]

Uber-cool. Looks like you won't need that wing then? The wings look the most solid of the side panels!If you can make it up to Billing Aquadrome in the first weekend of July, the VBOA show might just throw up some suitable panels in the autojumble. The Carlton kept these doors until 1986 so you never know...Good to see a proper factory steel sunroof as well, one of my Rekords had a glass pop-up job and it looked awful.

[nigel bickle]

Thanks -he told me the wings were fitted 50 miles before it came off the road. Whilst indeed solid -they arent well fitted- and could do with a bit of fettling. Bottoms of all the doors are tadgered -plop up in the short term.Whats on at Billing -and July? I'm looking to get this on the road Oct or Nov- July is beyond my horizon.Short term I need rear shocks (Some ont'bay) new exhaust -although I think I can cobble for a while -and a bit of luck!

[r.welfare]

VBOA = Vauxhall Bedford Opel Association, i.e. an umbrella for all the clubs dealing with such cars to fall under. Basically they invite all the clubs to pitch up to Billing on the 1st weekend in July, and there's a pretty big autojumble.Only club for these cars is the Autobahnstormers, I would say that you might be able to find someone with parts for one but it's predominantly Lotus Carltons and Omega owners these days. They were originally set up to cater for the straight-six cars, but that was back in the late 80s! If they have a Viceroy on their membership I would be surprised - they only had 3 Rekords of which I owned 2! Unfortunately you have to join up to be a member of their forum.You could plod the doors for the MOT and then wait for some new ones, or ebay.de might have something? There's usually quite a few Rekord E's on there (same doors), Senator A's (78-86) should also be the same. The Opel Commodore C was the direct equivalent of the Viceroy.

[nigel bickle]

Ta- appreciated.Plodding has started -reckon they'll MOt a couple of times yet.Gives me time yto find replacements -ta

[chester drawers]

Polar white

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I see that 'Warny' lot do repair panels for these door bottoms.54 and 15 euros for fronts and rears respectively.

[nigel bickle]

? Dont know Warny -point me please?

[MrRegieRitmo]

Caught a glimpse of it at the back of your herd last night! Good to see a high turn over of motors at your place, keeps things interesting!The Viceroy is an odd thing isn't it, with the front end of a Royale (itself like a Senator A) and a rear end of a MkI E1 Carlton! Presumably the Royale was a bit bigger than the Carlton, so did the Viceroy sit in between or was it the same size inch for inch as the Royale? If so then how on earth did they find a niche for it?You then had 3 executive size cars in the range above the Cavalier! So if we look at BMW for comparison purposes, was the Cavalier about the size of a 3 Series or more like a 5 Series? If it was like a 3 Series, I suppose the Carlton and/or Viceroy were like the 5 Series and then the Royale and/or Viceroy like the 7 Series? If the Cavalier was more 5 Series size, then you'd have the Carlton and/or Viceroy as 7 Series size and the Royale and/or Viceroy with no equivalent BMW car?

[r.welfare]

I think that they all rode on the same 105" wheelbase (Nigel can confirm now he has the brochure, lovely technical drawings at the back), it was more a case of different engines had a separate name/'face'. These days you'd just have a different model designation to differentiate them, L, LX, GL or whatever - GM were obviously influenced by their American masters on this in those days, who liked to tweak sheetmetal wherever possible. Only difference between a Royale saloon and a Carlton/Viceroy (apart from modified inner wings for the bigger lumps) was a window behind the rear door, or 'sixth light' as they call it.The BMW analogy, sizewise, is that the Cavalier was the same size as the 3-series and the Carlton/Viceroy/Senator around the same size as 5. Although on price I would have thought a 323i to be on a par with a 3.0-litre Royale...so GM never did have a 'true' rival for the 7-series, mind you neither did Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Renault or any of the 'volume' manufacturers.

[MrRegieRitmo]

so GM never did have a 'true' rival for the 7-series, mind you neither did Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Renault or any of the 'volume' manufacturers.

So basically all of those manufacturer's biggest cars were only comparable in size to a 5 Series? So the only competition out there for the 7 Series was from other premium brands (S Class, A8, LS430, XJ.....can't think of any others.).So a 407 is the same size as a 3 Series? The new Mondeo is the same size as a 3 Series? Because I'm sure I read somewhere they were aiming it at the 5 Series because there is no Scorpio or Scorpio sized car anymore. I'm assuming the Passat is also aimed at the 5 Series / A6 because the Phaeton must obviously be aimed at 7 Series / A8 customers? Although I've heard that the Passat is sister to the A4.....It's all very confusing. Take the 3 Series again......equivalent to an A4 would you say? Right ok then, but if the Passat is aimed at the 5 Series and the Phaeton the 7 Series, how can the Passat also be sister to the A4. I'd have said the Jetta was the same size as the 3 Series, which means it must also be the same size as the A4, therefore the Passat must be bigger & aimed at the 5 Series! What about the 1 Series......in the same mould as the A Class & A2 would you say? What then is equivalent to the A3 & the Golf?......the 3 Series? Can't be if the 3 Series is also equivalent to the A4 & the C Class which are both plainly bigger than the A3 & the Golf!It seems that if you were trying to decide on a new car & work out what competes with what, you'd have an awful job trying to decipher all the model ranges! It seems perhaps not all manufacturers have an answer for every model produced by the other manufacturers!

[nigel bickle]

Yep -105

[mk2_craig]

So the only competition out there for the 7 Series was from other premium brands (S Class, A8, LS430, XJ.....can't think of any others.).

Back in the 1980s, the Beemer 7 was retailing for about the same amount of dollar as the Range Rover and, dare I say it, that Ferrari engined Lancia Thema. Two excellent reasons not to buy Bayerischen

[r.welfare]

It seems perhaps not all manufacturers have an answer for every model produced by the other manufacturers!

Damn right. Put your car where the customers are - which may not be where your rivals are. That's why Mazda (and Rover) went niche market crazy in the early '90s.Keeping it simple, you are right that the A4 and Passat are related (and broadly similar), but they don't compete head-on - Audi can get away with higher pricing due to brand image and other intangible factors - which are mainly marketing guff anyway. But the platform is fundamentally identical. VAG (VW Audi Group) are the current kings of 'platform sharing' but, keeping it with a point of reference relative to you, FIAT did similar stuff in the 90s - the Tipo platform was used in the 145, 146, 155, Spider and GTV, Tempra, FIAT Coupe, Lancia Dedra and probably others I have forgotten about. Keeps costs low.In terms of whether a car competes 'on size', I wouldn't like to say what the parameters should be. I would expect these days for a Sierra-class car to be 15.5ft long and have a wheelbase around the 105" mark. Escort-class stuff might be around 13.5ft long and have a wheelbase around 100". The Americans - in a surprisingly sensible moment - use interior volume to class whether something is subcompact, compact, intermediate or full-size, as they call it.Problem is, stuff keeps growing - mainly for crash protection I guess. But a new Polo is bigger than a Mk1 (1974) Golf, and about 33% heavier. The 407 - ugly bugger that it is - is much bigger than my 405, but seems to have less rear legroom. Progress? My arse.I prescribe a nice cup of tea and a read-through of the data pages in What Car, so you can compare sizes (fnarr fnarr!). But I would say that while the A2, A-Class and 1-series may compare on price, they really aim at very, very different markets. If we're confused, imagine having to sell the things

[MrRegieRitmo]

Cheers, I had almost baffled myself with the myriad of questions on makes/models/sizes so I felt sure I would have baffled everyone else.

[MrRegieRitmo]

It seems perhaps not all manufacturers have an answer for every model produced by the other manufacturers!

Damn right. Put your car where the customers are - which may not be where your rivals are. That's why Mazda (and Rover) went niche market crazy in the early '90s.

I was under the impression that every manufacturer wants to have their own version of a car because of partly the fact that so many are willing to share bodies just so that they have their own representative in that segment covered (Galaxy/Alhambra/Sharan) but also because eventually every marque brings out, sometimes reluctantly, their own version of whatever's in fashion, even if it hasn't traditionally been their image. i.e. Mazda bringing out their own MPV without much effort & coming out much later than everybody elses', imaginatively called the er.......MPV! That is a real example of a company just filling a gap because it feels it should! Therefore it makes you feel that every company should have equivalent vehicles to each other, otherwise how can you relate them to the competition? By the same token SUVs....who'd have predicted a few years ago that virtually every manufacturer would offer one, especially Volvo & Porsche for god's sake!But the proof of what you say about companies looking at customer wants not what the opposition are doing is to be found in the Merc R Class. BMW were naturally planning their own version of the 'whatever-you-wanna-call-it-mobile' but they studied the Merc sales figures, decided it wasn't a winner & shelved their own plans. It seems somebody there must have some sense afterall!

[nigel bickle]

Well -i think thats finished that conversation then!

[MrRegieRitmo]

Not at all - I can keep going for hours.....although I suspect, on my own!

[nigel bickle]

Sad to say -she has to go.http://i204.photobuc...baystuff010.jpg2 reasons:- Its not the drive I remembered -if I'm truthful. It didnt inspire me in the 50 (ish) miles I've covered -and that means it wouldnt get used. Cant find anything really wrong with it -runs Ok -sounds right -just doesnt do it for me. Saab man -I guess,And -perhaps more important,SWMBO went ballistic when she discovered whats bought, bidded or in the process of acquisition -so in the interests of marital harmony -a few sacrificies have to be made.So -before I send it t'Bay -anyone interested? 87000mls -prob genuine. I owner before me (V5c in my name). Little history but it does feel right. Had new dampers and a change of rims - needs archs and door bottoms tidying (although I think they'll MOT), back box needs MIGing or replacing -not crawled under to check. Interior fab, elecs all work inc 80's Pioneer radio/cassette and 4 speakers -with seperate front/rear fader.A rare beast needs a new home. Plenty of pics if anyone's interested?

[nigel bickle]

RW -I owe you a brochure -cant keep it if I'm not retaining the car! PM me your details -I'll post it straight back. And -thanks

[r.welfare]

Hey NB don't worry, use it as a sales tool on Fleabay! Bound to entice the punters in as 'provenance'. Those Omega rims? Looks good. Sad to say I'm not in the market for it - particularly as the £1100 we spent 2 weeks ago on SWMBO's car appears not to have rectified all the faults, and the garage that did the work appears to be 'closed' (telephone number not in use, premises locked up)...

[nigel bickle]

Thanks -thats kind. They're BMW rims -do look good dont they. Bejesus I got some cack from the Mrs over it -much multiplied by toys to come!Sorry to hear about yours -I hate that too. My Ren 21t has just had the head gasket done -and we've had a huge row over the amplified invoice -where they helpfully replaced the ignition switch(huh?), wiper linkage and all sorts of uncommissioned jobbies. But -you cant do it all yourself -can you!!

[MrRegieRitmo]

and there's me assuming you must have got the world's most tolerant SWMBO! I guess everyone's got limits.Have you mentioned the car on R-R?

[r.welfare]

Ah yes - 5-series jobs! I didn't know the PCD was the same.We've just had the AA out due to a grinding noise - turned out to be a stone in the caliper but you can never tell - and it turns out the new brake discs are missing their retaining screws. And they've broken the battery cover. I'm not going to name them because this could go legal...

[nigel bickle]

Sad.Makes you wonder what else they abused. 'xpect they put the Apprentice on it....