The Budget & Us

[chadders]

17 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

OBD plug  - whack a WiFi enable dongle in there, zap the ECU information over to the testing station laptop  - sorted?

I can't see any standard EV not having an OBD. I can see a testing stations pushing for a decent amount for doing the readout though?

I'm assuming that it'd be on the scale of an ERP or similar system to deal with the billing etc.. You'd need to set all the customer info up for a start, that alone would be a pretty big exercise unless it already existed in a suitable format for billing.

Billing systems with millions of customers are, or at least were, a nightmare.

Just ask any telco I.T. person.

[vtec-e]

Just my 2 cents, no doubt it has already been said many times here 😄

This will be the start of road pricing for most of us, except for those historics that are exempt. The govt are thinking pilot the process on Ev's and hybrids, and then roll it out to the rest. Every time we interact with DVLA about a vehicle, tax, Sorn, buy, sell, scrap they will want a mileage reading and issue a charge as a result. This will need to be paid within so many days (30?) in much the same way we pay our existing VED. It can be cross referenced against the MOT mileage reading (if available). I'm sure some better input MOT mileage validation is not beyond even the brains at the DVLA, they just need to request the systems people to program it - it's not hard!  Obviously people will try and fiddle etc but it will get sorted out at selling time.

A small percentage of people dont pay VED at the moment and this will continue under road pricing. The govt will accept that.

[Metal Guru]

As a hybrid (PHEV) owner, I’m not so much aggrieved at the 1 1/2p per mile , more the fact my car has lost half its value overnight. No one will want to buy a PHEV, so if I want to change it, I’m going to practically give it away.

[Rikdogguk]

I would be surprised if a technological solution cant be found for the first 3 year conundrum, such as taking a photo of the odometer with a gov app thus avoiding mot station shenanigans.

Yes some people will try and fuck around, mileage blockers, slipping mot tester £50 etc but this will be a minority.  Most people are inherently honest and do not want a headache if they sell the car or have to claim on warranty.  

As an EV owner it’s mildly irritating but has been coming for some time just been kicked down the road by previous govs.  At least it is fair (as opposed to VED) in that the amount paid is completely proportional to usage. 

 

[Barry Cade]

Just add in your driver card into your national ID cards that are coming, and fit all new cars with tacho's.. they'll inform the DVSA if you leave the 15 minute city without prior approval.

[catsinthewelder]

@Barry Cade Please say you're joking and don't believe that?!

I really like the idea that we're trying to get back to a world where you don't need to drive everywhere if you don't want to.  I grew up on a housing estate that was half an hours walk from anywhere.

[Barry Cade]

46 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

@Barry Cade Please say you're joking and don't believe that?!

I really like the idea that we're trying to get back to a world where you don't need to drive everywhere if you don't want to.  I grew up on a housing estate that was half an hours walk from anywhere.

Everything I say in here may, or may not be what I really think.. depends what mood I'm in really. . I also grew up in a council estate in a new town, where nothing was more than 15 mins away on foot, which was brilliant..I also lived in Braemar, where anything apart from the pub or the Co-Op or the fanciest hotel in Britain was an hour away by car at least. We have that choice now,and hopefully forever!

[RoverFolkUs]

11 hours ago, sierraman said:

Then I give the MOT tester £50 and he agrees with me it’s only done 3000 miles this year. 😂

Out of interest, how much will the government expect to pay the MOT tester for his time? Will it be set at a figure that causes him a loss like the MOT? 

Who knows how it would actually work. DVSA are already making noises about connected equipment now to include the headlamp beam setters, in addition to the brake rollers and emissions machines which are already mandatory. Some sort of OBD device that's connected wouldn't surprise me which would lessen human involvement/bias/error

[Barry Cade]

5 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Who knows how it would actually work. DVSA are already making noises about connected equipment now to include the headlamp beam setters, in addition to the brake rollers and emissions machines which are already mandatory. Some sort of OBD device that's connected wouldn't surprise me which would lessen human involvement/bias/error

I use remote programming when coding stuff. These guys can extract or upload  any information the car holds through my mobile, anywhere,anytime. These cars also have WiFi connection and 4g, so could do it themselves when asked. There really shouldn't be any need for human involvement.

[bigstraight6]

I heard on the radio earlier the Government, if you can call it that are looking at a scheme where the vehicle owners have to fill in a declaration of annual mileage and pay accordingly, if the mileage is exceeded you will pay accordingly again. Perhaps the effected could complete the declaration while sat in the vehicle waiting for it to charge. 

[stuboy]

does information get shared during the charging process?? could milage be collected ?

[Barry Cade]

14 minutes ago, bigstraight6 said:

I heard on the radio earlier the Government, if you can call it that are looking at a scheme where the vehicle owners have to fill in a declaration of annual mileage and pay accordingly, if the mileage is exceeded you will pay accordingly again. Perhaps the effected could complete the declaration while sat in the vehicle waiting for it to charge. 

And take payment when charging for the charge? 

[bigstraight6]

8 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

And take payment when charging for the charge? 

Indeed, It’s like chickens coming home to roost…

[stuboy]

will there be fields of abandoned EV's in future too come?

[Snipes]

People kick up a stink about things like mileage tracking and ID cards but really 95% of what's needed to implement these things are already in place and have been for some time. 

I don't really mind charge per mile on principal but you know it'll be used to sneak in a huge tax hike. 

[Tayne]

42 minutes ago, stuboy said:

will there be fields of abandoned EV's in future too come?

Is 3.5p per mile really abandonment territory?

If it is then I hope you like the bus, the rate for a shonky Mondeo held together with stickers is 7p per mile.

Something like @bigstraight6’s ‘57 Bel Air would be about 14p per mile.

[Barry Cade]

36 minutes ago, Snipes said:

People kick up a stink about things like mileage tracking and ID cards but really 95% of what's needed to implement these things are already in place and have been for some time. 

I don't really mind charge per mile on principal but you know it'll be used to sneak in a huge tax hike. 

I've just done some fag packet scribbling, just out of interest. Last charger i looked at - Abington services- was 89p per KW/h. A random pick, VW ID4 has a 77kw/h battery, so a full charge would be £68.53. At 3.5 KW/h that takes you 270 miles. So cost per mile including the new 3p per mile would be 28.4p per mile. 270 mile range.

Golf Diesel. 56.5 mpg average.£1.43 per litre, or £6.49 per gallon makes 8.7p per mile. 621 mile range . Full tank £71.50

Is this right?  I know there's home charging, and services prices, but 20p a mile more? 😯

[Tayne]

6 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

I've just done some fag packet scribbling, just out of interest. Last charger i looked at - Abington services- was 89p per KW/h. A random pick, VW ID4 has a 77kw/h battery, so a full charge would be £68.53. At 3.5 KW/h that takes you 270 miles. So cost per mile including the new 3p per mile would be 28.4p per mile. 270 mile range.

Golf Diesel. 56.5 mpg average.£1.43 per litre, or £6.49 per gallon makes 8.7p per mile. 621 mile range . Full tank £71.50

Is this right?  I know there's home charging, and services prices, but 20p a mile more? 😯

 

If you're exclusively fueling your EV at a motorway rapid, youre doing it wrong.

Off-peak home electricty at 10p per kwh equates to 2.9 pence per mile, add your 3.5p tax and your at 6.4 pence per mile.

Assuming a 20 mile each way commute, 5 days a week for 48 weeks a year the EV will set you back £614.40.

 

However, if you're paying £6.49 for a gallon of diesel and each gallon takes you 56.5 miles... I make that 11.5 p per mile.

Or £1104 for the average commute above.

 

Filling up either at motorway services will always be higher and skew the figures. 

[kevins]

yep if you charge on public high speed chargers EV's don't make any sense. I once borrowed a mache GT for a few days, it was costing more than my old V8 Range Rover.  I think you can get home charging tarifs for less than 20p per kwh, and a modern car that meets the latest emission standards and is similar in size to a ID4 will be doing nearer 30mpg. that gives something lime 13p per mile for the EV and 17p for the IC car

 

[Snipes]

What to do if you have no charger at home?

[Out Run]

I run a 40kWh Leaf and I only granny charge it at home, overnight when I have off-peak rates of 7.5ppkWh. I don't have a 7kw wall charger and I never rapid charge it.

I can manage to acquire a good 45% of charge in a 6 hour window and that will easily cover 60 miles.

Even with the road tax of something like £200pa and the new 3.5ppm charges, it should still feel like running a car for free. As I don't even notice the impact on my already low electricity bills and I am used to high road tax (MR2 Turbo/2004 Rexton/2008 Caddy/2015 Connect) so that isn't a massive shock to the system.

Not having to pay for diesel or petrol constantly is working well for me at the moment and if by 2028 I decide that is no longer the case, I'll have saved enough to have made it worthwhile and possibly will have to return to ICE motoring.

Good job I have 880L of ready to run WVO on hand. 😂

 

[Barry Cade]

Just spotted a job for a mobile electric vehicle technician. Decent wages. Company MG5. Would this see me out till retirement?

[Tayne]

3 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

Just spotted a job for a mobile electric vehicle technician. Decent wages. Company MG5. Would this see me out till retirement?

 

If you rock up to every job and tell the customer they've bought the wrong car, I doubt you'd last a week.

If you're asking if EVs will be around for the next 10 years, then yes.

 

Is it Clevely?

[sheffcortinacentre]

2 hours ago, Tayne said:

Is 3.5p per mile really abandonment territory?

If it is then I hope you like the bus, the rate for a shonky Mondeo held together with stickers is 7p per mile.

Something like @bigstraight6’s ‘57 Bel Air would be about 14p per mile.

It'll soon be the annual escalator.

[Metal Guru]

5 hours ago, Barry Cade said:

I've just done some fag packet scribbling, just out of interest. Last charger i looked at - Abington services- was 89p per KW/h. A random pick, VW ID4 has a 77kw/h battery, so a full charge would be £68.53. At 3.5 KW/h that takes you 270 miles. So cost per mile including the new 3p per mile would be 28.4p per mile. 270 mile range.

Golf Diesel. 56.5 mpg average.£1.43 per litre, or £6.49 per gallon makes 8.7p per mile. 621 mile range . Full tank £71.50

Is this right?  I know there's home charging, and services prices, but 20p a mile more? 😯

You don’t get diesel at motorway services for £1.43. It’s at least £1.69, I’ve seen £1.89. 

[Lacquer Peel]

8 hours ago, Barry Cade said:

Just spotted a job for a mobile electric vehicle technician. Decent wages. Company MG5. Would this see me out till retirement?

Company MG5 is worth it on its own. 

[Lacquer Peel]

8 hours ago, Tayne said:

 

If you rock up to every job and tell the customer they've bought the wrong car, I doubt you'd last a week.

If you're asking if EVs will be around for the next 10 years, then yes.

 

Is it Clevely?

I'm sorry you bought the wrong car Tayne. 

[Snipes]

9 hours ago, Out Run said:

I run a 40kWh Leaf and I only granny charge it at home, overnight when I have off-peak rates of 7.5ppkWh. I don't have a 7kw wall charger and I never rapid charge it.

I can manage to acquire a good 45% of charge in a 6 hour window and that will easily cover 60 miles.

Even with the road tax of something like £200pa and the new 3.5ppm charges, it should still feel like running a car for free. As I don't even notice the impact on my already low electricity bills and I am used to high road tax (MR2 Turbo/2004 Rexton/2008 Caddy/2015 Connect) so that isn't a massive shock to the system.

Not having to pay for diesel or petrol constantly is working well for me at the moment and if by 2028 I decide that is no longer the case, I'll have saved enough to have made it worthwhile and possibly will have to return to ICE motoring.

Good job I have 880L of ready to run WVO on hand. 😂

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the saps who live three or more stories up and dangling an extension lead out of a window isn't an option!

[sierraman]

9 hours ago, Barry Cade said:

Just spotted a job for a mobile electric vehicle technician. Decent wages. Company MG5. Would this see me out till retirement?

If it pays alright and it’s interesting work then you could always park the MG5 round the corner and wear a disguise when you get in it? 

[Lacquer Peel]

1 minute ago, sierraman said:

If it pays alright and it’s interesting work then you could always park the MG5 round the corner and wear a disguise when you get in it? 

Why would he need to do that?