Unsuccessful facelifts

[SunnySouth]

On 27/06/2024 at 15:02, quicksilver said:

Maxi 2. Sixties design trying to look eighties by blacking out the chrome and fitting naff wheeltrims fails miserably.

 

 

 

Surely a winner in the “cars that felt fucking ancient for their time” awards?!

These were in their dying days when I was a kid, in the 90s. Even back then I recall thinking what a bizarre, ungainly creation it was, and how it was unavoidably obvious that they’d stuck some “modern” plastic to some sort of relic.

[ProgRocker]

5 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

What actually was the point of the Clubman face, was it purely a styling thing to identify a particular trim level? Seems a touch excessive…

I think it was an attempt to move the Mini upmarket. The properly booted Riley and Wolseley versions of the Mini ceased in 1969 or thereabouts. I preferred the Mini Clubman and I wanted an estate version for my first car. 

[Urko]

34 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

Surely a winner in the “cars that felt fucking ancient for their time” awards?!

These were in their dying days when I was a kid, in the 90s. Even back then I recall thinking what a bizarre, ungainly creation it was, and how it was unavoidably obvious that they’d stuck some “modern” plastic to some sort of relic.

I dunno - there were quite a few Fords they did that to over the years.  I was amazed when I first saw under the bonnet of a mk2 Escrote and realised it was a MK1 in a posher frock.  I preferred Fords at the time, but in retrospect BL got a bad rap IMHO.  If they had been German the SD1 would be in it's 7th generation and still being made.

[lesapandre]

59 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

What actually was the point of the Clubman face, was it purely a styling thing to identify a particular trim level? Seems a touch excessive…

Whole saga here:

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/mini/clubman/ado20-development-story/

[MantaGTE85]

17 minutes ago, Urko said:

I dunno - there were quite a few Fords they did that to over the years.  I was amazed when I first saw under the bonnet of a mk2 Escrote and realised it was a MK1 in a posher frock.  I preferred Fords at the time, but in retrospect BL got a bad rap IMHO.  If they had been German the SD1 would be in it's 7th generation and still being made.

But by now, today's SD1 would be a giant, girly Q7-rivalling 500bhp plug-in hybrid SUV. Like everything else nowadays😭

[MantaGTE85]

That Champagne Beige late-reg-madness Maxi is still prowling around today, taxed until next April.

[EyesWeldedShut]

14 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

Whole saga here:

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/mini/clubman/ado20-development-story/

Lovely little line in that:
"in the mistaken belief that technical neglect would be compensated for by customer loyalty to the existing Mini"

Delete Mini and substitute just about every BL car after the merger?

[lesapandre]

Overall BLMC had some strange notions...

Here is Donald Stokes displaying  the Peter Principle - the section about foreign car imports at the end is very odd - and  Cliff Michelmore, who was a good BBC journalist goads Stokes on how old hat his cars were - and Stokes complacently patronises back moaning about how much the new front on the Clubman cost. Stokes also tells a fib about the first fuel injection car.

 

[warren t claim]

5 hours ago, MantaGTE85 said:

But by now, today's SD1 would be a giant, girly Q7-rivalling 500bhp plug-in hybrid SUV. Like everything else nowadays😭

I disagree. I think it would be an Audi A7 rival.

[grogee]

10 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Overall BLMC had some strange notions...

Here is Donald Stokes displaying  the Peter Principle - the section about foreign car imports at the end is very odd - and  Cliff Michelmore, who was a good BBC journalist goads Stokes on how old hat his cars were - and Stokes complacently patronises back moaning about how much the new front on the Clubman cost. Stokes also tells a fib about the first fuel injection car.

 

Great video, thanks for posting. I love the shot of Stokes looking wistfully outside his office window, as he decides which BLMC project to cancel today. 

[J-T]

On 27/06/2024 at 12:47, jonny69 said:

I always felt the early Mk5 Escort had great lines 

I don’t even think Ford thought that given it was only on sale for about 18 months before they started fiddling with it. They really were just an absolute turd of a car, a base trim example is the definition of grim. Even that XR3i above looks utterly half arsed.

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

Great video, thanks for posting. I love the shot of Stokes looking wistfully outside his office window, as he decides which BLMC project to cancel today. 

He comes across as a bit of a Branson - buys into different industries that he sees profit in. He certainly didn't talk like any sort of car industry expert. Times were a-changing and I don't think he's spotted that from the way he talks?

(I loved the walk though on the bus/truck floor)

[grogee]

11 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

He comes across as a bit of a Branson - buys into different industries that he sees profit in. He certainly didn't talk like any sort of car industry expert. Times were a-changing and I don't think he's spotted that from the way he talks?

(I loved the walk though on the bus/truck floor)

On the face of it, a salesman/engineer seems like a great fit for car company boss. 

But with 20/20 hindsight it's easy to see the blind alleys he led the company down. I wonder how different things would have been if a hard-nosed accountant had been in charge? 

Was the import situation quite protectionist back then, eg high tarrifs on imports? Seems crazy to think 'foreign' only amounted to 10% of the UK market. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

1 hour ago, grogee said:

On the face of it, a salesman/engineer seems like a great fit for car company boss. 

But with 20/20 hindsight it's easy to see the blind alleys he led the company down. I wonder how different things would have been if a hard-nosed accountant had been in charge? 

Was the import situation quite protectionist back then, eg high tarrifs on imports? Seems crazy to think 'foreign' only amounted to 10% of the UK market. 

13% tariff on imports according to AROnline . I was a kid back then and foreign stuff was rare - most people who could afford a car seemed to have UK built. 
Hindsight is the only exact science but he could still have had some foresight *- the Common Market was on the horizon, customer demand for 'new' models was on the rise too. Folks were getting wealthier and I'm sure the car industry was aware of the possibility that we'd get into the US situation of facelifts and new models most years.
I think there was just a perfect shit storm and the company did not weather it at all well, you could point the finger at a load of contributory factors - none of the alone would have killed it off but, piled on top of each other?

*edit - I've read the whole of the AROnline piece and it looks like he may have bought into the motor industry at the wrong time - they'd bet on an earlier EU entry which failed so were not in a great financial position. They mention the CKD in the article and the interview - looks like that was what they were relying on.

[GeordieInExile]

21 hours ago, ETCHY said:

I do like the Clubman but have to say, it's a bit half arsed & not really a success

It always looked really incongruous to me, like they started at the front and just forgot to do the back. The proportions are all wrong. It would have looked far better if they had also welded a squared off seventies section aft of the rear seam to go with the one fore of the front one. 

[lesapandre]

They did - late 60's vetoed on cost.

Roy Haynes designed this hip little facelift. What a great car it wd have been - a supermini before the Metro.

Product planning was another BLMC fail. No hatch 'till Metro - meanwhile Ford, Fiat and Renault etc cleaned up.

Stokes dropped all the badge- engineering names - but imagine that little hatch as a proper Vanden Plas or Riley.

[D.E]

8 hours ago, J-T said:

They really were just an absolute turd of a car, a base trim example is the definition of grim. 

"Practical, roomy, stylish"

[J-T]

Christ, I didn’t realise there was a 1.8d option in base trim, as if the 1300 HCS were not punishment enough. I wonder if there are any left.

[grogee]

34 minutes ago, D.E said:

"Practical, roomy, stylish"

It's roomy because there's nothing in it

[ProgRocker]

1 hour ago, J-T said:

Christ, I didn’t realise there was a 1.8d option in base trim, as if the 1300 HCS were not punishment enough. I wonder if there are any left.

14 years ago I owned a 1.8 L d Escort Saloon (post Orion with the oval grille). I didn't so much drive it, more 'piloted' it. Actually quite liked that car. 

[J-T]

3 minutes ago, ProgRocker said:

14 years ago I owned a 1.8 L d Escort Saloon (post Orion with the oval grille). I didn't so much drive it, more 'piloted' it. Actually quite liked that car. 

Petty bourgeoisie with your analogue clock and rear wash wipe 

[Mrcento]

2 hours ago, D.E said:

"Practical, roomy, stylish"

I absolutely love the fact that one of the main selling points, both mentioned and pictured as a feature is basically

'You can put sunglasses on the dashboard'

It's like one of those car ads from carmart the early 00's written my a private seller or small trader trying to pad the ad out on some late 80's/early 90's turd and including something like 'Rear view mirror' as a feature.

[lesapandre]

Ford and the dealers were very good at special editions where the special edition had a name, maybe a stripe, a leather gear-knob, metallic paint and... that's it.

[GeordieInExile]

3 hours ago, J-T said:

Christ, I didn’t realise there was a 1.8d option in base trim, as if the 1300 HCS were not punishment enough. I wonder if there are any left.

The 1300 being four speed is an even bigger punishment, surely!

[MantaGTE85]

I remember those base Escorts very well. In 1999, I worked as a valeter at Evans Halshaw Ford in Exeter, and I used to prepare ex-Motability base-spec Mk6 N-reg Escort Encores for their used car display, after they were given back once they got to 3 years old. Most of them were Ontario Blue, Diamond White, and that shitty, flat, dark reddish-brown who's name escapes me. They were five-speed, but still had no PAS and they really were very heavy, slow, and generally crap. Despite still having four-figure mileages when they went back, they were returned to the dealership in absolutely filthy condition, often taking me 3 days to complete a satisfactory valet on each one! Hateful, ugly things with cheap and nasty carpets, black bumpers and tiny wheels.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Back in 1991, I started out with a 1984 Mk2 Ford Fester 1.1 Plopular-Pus, also a four-speed, and even less decadent than these Escorts (remember those crappy fixed vinyl open-headrests?, 2-speed fan, no radio). I actually thought my Fiesta was quite a jolly, nippy, reliable and economical little runabout. Apart from a little rust here and there, I couldn't fault it for the 3-and-a-half years I had it. So, at what point did Ford start going wrong with these Valencia/Kent-based engines? I seem to remember many original Kay-A buyers were happy enough with their 1.3 Endura-E engines.

[MantaGTE85]

2 hours ago, GeordieInExile said:

The 1300 being four speed is an even bigger punishment, surely!

October 1991 was when Ford dropped the Popular name, and they started calling it an Escort 'Lead-In' I think. And it still came with only 4-speeds and no PAS! I think it was the Mk5B late-1992 facelift when Ford finally gave in and shoe-horned a 5-speeder into those base Escorts for moarrr decadentment.

At least they all had rear wipers I suppose.

[adw1977]

May 1992, the lowest trim level is just "Escort" and the 1.3 HCS still has a 4 speed box.  (The text here implies 5 speeds but the truth is buried in the specifications)

Notice it's already had a very slight facelift by changing to the clear indicator lenses that the Orion had from the start.

The next brochure I have is October 92 when the 1.3 offering was a CFi with five speeds.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, MantaGTE85 said:

they started calling it an Escort 'Lead-In' I think. 

Maybe Leader? Or was that too aspirational

Edit: Or Citroen?

[hennabm]

The E30 had a facelift and went from chrome to plastic bumpers.

Having owned both variants I am a chromie at heart.

[MorrisItalSLX]

On 29/06/2024 at 22:12, GeordieInExile said:

It always looked really incongruous to me, like they started at the front and just forgot to do the back. The proportions are all wrong. It would have looked far better if they had also welded a squared off seventies section aft of the rear seam to go with the one fore of the front one. 

The Clubman front looked best on the estate, especially early ones with the Formica cladding.