The Wilted Leaf - Winter bites... 18/12/2024

[Zelandeth]

I imagine accounting for those out there who insist on waiting until the light is on and the gauge is below empty on the dash before thinking about filling up.  Also maybe to allow for variations in pack performance if there's a significant temperature swing maybe?

Wouldn't surprise me as well on something this modern if the DTE readout adapts over time to driving style as well and adjusts the "empty" buffer accordingly.

Is the 25% on the app there of the total capacity of the pack or the safely usable capacity without risking over discharging? (Though I'd assume the BMS is smart enough to prevent that being an issue).

[320touring]

I honestly can't answer your question re safe useable Vs total capacity.

Will be interesting to see how this changes (if at all) over time. Certainly finding leafspy useful

[320touring]

I also took my parents out for a wee drive in it - happily it was easy for them to get into, and considered comfortable.

That's great as it was one of the main reasons for buying it. Nothing else on fleet is really suited to transporting the parents too low/too few doors/too deep seats etc)

[320touring]

Having passed both the "long run" and parents tests, I charged up for the start of the next experiment.

 

How long will a charge last in our weekly use pattern?

 

It seems to be the norm to charge to 80% of capacity regularly, rather than 100% as the charge speed really drops off above 80%.

I overslept this morning, so we are starting at 88%

The leafspy reading is pretty close

Anyone want to guess the distance we can achieve before the next charge is needed?

For info:

A gallon of diesel contains about 48kWh of energy.

I'll be aiming to charge at about the same level as last time - i.e when the battery has 8kWh left.

Realistically, that means the car has 21kWh available, so roughly the same energy as 2L of diesel..

 

[Dave_Q]

It's not apples to apples as yer diesel converts something like 60-70% of the energy into clatter and heat but still an interesting comparison. 

[320touring]

43 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

It's not apples to apples as yer diesel converts something like 60-70% of the energy into clatter and heat but still an interesting comparison. 

Aye that's true. It's still a decent indication for me of how much energy we are talking about to move the car.

 

Trying to get my head round the quantities involved!

Another way is to put a cost price on it,

so that 102.7 miles took 22.7kWh (at 24p/kWh as no smart meter/EV charger tariff) totalling £5.45.

 

If I spent that £5.45 on derv at my local garage (top of the street) @ £1.479 / litre, that buys 3.68L which is 0.81 Gallons.

The Octavia would need to do 126.8mpg to travel the same distance on the same volume of kWh equivalent.

[Kiltox]

Charge speed slowing off after 80% only really applies to DC charging (or AC at faster rates like this Zoe) 

[320touring]

9 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

Charge speed slowing off after 80% only really applies to DC charging (or AC at faster rates like this Zoe) 

Good to know cheers. If I'd not slept last night I could have tracked it and found that out😂

 

Still think the 80% charge approach is sensible? Or can I just batter it up to 100% on the cheap home electric?

[Kiltox]

As long as you’re not leaving it sitting for weeks charged to 100% there’s no real issue with using all of the available capacity, especially on a 130k mile ex taxi. 

[320touring]

47 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

As long as you’re not leaving it sitting for weeks charged to 100% there’s no real issue with using all of the available capacity, especially on a 130k mile ex taxi. 

Better get my cable back oot....

 

Tbh will try it at this level and see how it copes. So far all that is planned is potentially  a couple of station runs and one trip into Glasgow for a gig.

[320touring]

What did we learn today lads? We learned that when the leaf says 10% left, it's not enough juice to get back from @jaypee's 🤣

Conking out at the big roundabout at J 3 of the m80 was... Interesting.

Recovery driver took me to a local rapid charger.

It charged from ---% to 27% in 12 mins.

Then I drove the 1.5miles home.

new hard limit of charge at 15% set.

Recovery driver was sound. .

[dollywobbler]

I once managed about 15 miles after a brand new Leaf stopped telling me both percentage left and range. Drove VERY slowly but made it home!

[Alan_Green]

Those are some sweet consumption numbers - 4.3 to 4.5 miles per KWH.  I only get 4.1 in my (lighter) BMW i3 over 90,000 miles.  The Polestar and MG ZS I'm familiar with get 3 miles per KWH.   An NV200 I used in the winter only gave 2.5.  But 39KWH useable x 4.5 = 175 miles range.  You're getting much less than that and with the other things you've said it sounds like you've lost the bottom 25% of your battery.  Think the leaf spy can tell you.  I always thought it was good to keep the car on slow charge as it "conditioned/balanced" the battery, whatever that means.  I charge my i3 to 100% every night using a 3 pin plug and the battery is as good as new.  I've almost never rapid charged.  Rapid charging seems to be the thing that degrades batteries.  PS, shouldn't this be in the modern section?

[loserone]

Those 1850 rapid charges probably haven't been that great for the battery, certainly.   I would suggest it my be a bit new but it's most certainly shite 😂

[SiC]

Are EV Vs ICE odometer miles like dog years Vs human years?

[hairnet]

On 21/06/2024 at 10:33, 320touring said:

What are my initial impressions? <insert jimmy krankie joke here>

I'm not in love with it - it's a bit too modern and sensible for my tastes

ACTUAL BULLSHIT PRACTICAL GARBAGE IS THIS KEN - AULD MAN KICKED IN YO!

The Bird was immediately comfortable with driving it - she says it's just like a normal automatic, but quieter so better for tunes.

DO AS YIR TOLD OBVS

 

 

[hairnet]

22 hours ago, 320touring said:

 it's not enough juice to get back from @jaypee's

 

big man live in teuchter noo??

[BorniteIdentity]

I rather liked my Leaf.  Had it three years on lease (for businessing purposes when businessing) and it was bob on.  Very comfortable to drive - went like a Scalextric car driven by your sister on boxing day - very easy to live with IF you can charge simply and easily at home without shuffling cars, trailing cables etc blah.

Mine was the 62kw with an achievable range of 220 miles, and went like a fucking lightning bolt (e+ = 214 bhp and 251 lb ft) which is probably why I never got any more than about 3.6 miles per kw.  I also did quite a bit of proper driving rather than pootling.

I changed job a few months ago and a cheap BEV makes even more sense now, I do 100 miles a week to the railway station and back.  But no parking, and no £5k spare means I'll be reading this thread instead.  Well bought!

[NorfolkNWeigh]

On 24/06/2024 at 14:45, 320touring said:

Aye that's true. It's still a decent indication for me of how much energy we are talking about to move the car.

 

Trying to get my head round the quantities involved!

Another way is to put a cost price on it,

so that 102.7 miles took 22.7kWh (at 24p/kWh as no smart meter/EV charger tariff) totalling £5.45.

 

If I spent that £5.45 on derv at my local garage (top of the street) @ £1.479 / litre, that buys 3.68L which is 0.81 Gallons.

The Octavia would need to do 126.8mpg to travel the same distance on the same volume of kWh equivalent.

I haven’t got a fucking clue what all this kWh, mhz, hrt,  etc bollocks that s bandied about. This is the first time anyone has made it clear to me what an electric car plugged in at home costs compared to something I can relate to. Thankyou.

[BorniteIdentity]

10 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

I haven’t got a fucking clue what all this kWh, mhz, hrt,  etc bollocks that s bandied about. This is the first time anyone has made it clear to me what an electric car plugged in at home costs compared to something I can relate to. Thankyou.

I would guess your electricity is about 25 pence per kw.  This car is 40kw capacity so £10 to charge (0.25x40=10). It would appear our pilot is attaining about 130 miles from that charge, so 7.6 pence per mile.

Get yourself on an Economy 7 tariff (as I am on) and that's 10 pence per kw.  £4 a charge, so 3 pence per mile (approximately)

By my fag packet maths, to achieve the same pence per mile in a diesel you'd need to be returning 220 mpg.  I might be wrong, it's happened before.

[320touring]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Are EV Vs ICE odometer miles like dog years Vs human years?

I honestly don't know😂 the Leafs don't have active battery cooling, so apparently can get more degraded by the high heat situation of rapid charging.

 

The battery shows no dead cells on leaf spy.

31 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

I haven’t got a fucking clue what all this kWh, mhz, hrt,  etc bollocks that s bandied about. This is the first time anyone has made it clear to me what an electric car plugged in at home costs compared to something I can relate to. Thankyou.

Glad it was helpful, it's not perfect but as a first time EV driver, I find it useful as a comparator.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, 320touring said:

honestly don't know😂 the Leafs don't have active battery cooling, so apparently can get more degraded by the high heat situation of rapid charging

What I'm finding interesting on this thread is that high mileage EVs still are useful vehicles with decent usable range. A high miler sub £4k EV with a hundred miles range is a very interesting prospect for a lot of my wife and my own usage.

I think for our usage, a 2kw mains socket charger is probably sufficient too. Many daily short journeys will only be using 20-25 miles of range. With the 330i using a gallon of fuel in those sort of journeys, that's like £6.40 of fuel versus probably less than a quid of electricity?

[BorniteIdentity]

They make total sense for a large percentage of the population.  What the strokers on Twitter will say is "OH YES BUT WHAT ABOUT" but most families have two cars, so one BEV and one ICE is perfect.  

I think if you

1. Have off road, width-ways parking.
2. Own a second vehicle.
3. Are willing to invest in a 7kw charger

you'll be 100% fine.

I think it'd royally fuck off the anti-BEV brigade how well these cars seem to be ageing - but they're too busy being right to listen to the facts.

[beko1987]

On 29/06/2024 at 14:55, 320touring said:

What did we learn today lads? We learned that when the leaf says 10% left, it's not enough juice to get back from @jaypee's 🤣

Conking out at the big roundabout at J 3 of the m80 was... Interesting.

Recovery driver took me to a local rapid charger.

It charged from ---% to 27% in 12 mins.

Then I drove the 1.5miles home.

new hard limit of charge at 15% set.

Recovery driver was sound. .

Ffs next time take a can of electricity with you

[320touring]

This Leaf is plenty practical- witness AWW THE JRUMZ

[chaseracer]

26 minutes ago, 320touring said:

This Leaf is plenty practical- witness AWW THE JRUMZ

Excellent hard cases there... 😃

[320touring]

34 minutes ago, chaseracer said:

Excellent hard cases there... 😃

And the drums ain't bad either . . 

[320touring]

Heading over to the Burd's parents today for dinner today, so took the opportunity to do a bit of an economy run..

Wary after yesterday's lesson, I started off at 100% charge.

The route is mainly motorway - using the m80 south onto the M8, through the city centre and out towards the airport.

Handily, most of this is. 50mph limit, so ideal territory for the lowish speed cruise that the Leaf seems to like.

Cruise set at 51mph GPS whenever possible. And a bit of town running either end (Inc a short trip to the supermarket)

 

Results?

Thems some big numbers!

Intention is to charge it again mid week, then I have a run to the unit to do on Wed. That's a 60 mile round trip.

If I can make it back and still have more than 15% left from a full charge then it's pretty much perfect for 90% of the drives I do

[SiC]

Not a shite example but these things are coming down. This is at a dealer not that far from me. Down 17% sitting on a forecourt for 3 months. Not even done 20k miles.

Which hopefully means they all will get dragged down. 

[hairnet]

On 30/06/2024 at 16:53, 320touring said:

This Leaf is plenty practical- witness AWW THE JRUMZ

 

 

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