Where did Anne Naysmith’s Ford Consul go?

[mk2_craig]

6 minutes ago, junkyarddog said:

The Lady in question in her prime.

Not according to the Torygraph!

[junkyarddog]

1 minute ago, mk2_craig said:

Not according to the Torygraph!

Interesting,it seems it's not her after all.

[big_al_granvia]

Tbh the structure of the car wouldn't have been that bad, parked on tarmac, air not that salty, not like it was dumped in a field. So yeah possibly bangered. Really sad story, but anyone who works in social care knows, you can offer all the support but the person has to want to accept it

[quicksilver]

14 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

One or two of the details in that story conflict with others I have read today, in particular the critics review of Anne's performance which was unwavering in its praise in other accounts.

 

The Daily Fail's obituary is totally at odds on the situation with the house. It says the family owned no.22 and Anne lived there with her mother and sister. When her mother died, Anne had a mental breakdown, drove off and disappeared for nine months. She returned to find her sister had sold the house and she was homeless, so she parked the car outside and started living in it. The truth seems sadly to be lost in the mists of time.

[mk2_craig]

On 05/01/2024 at 09:21, mk2_craig said:

Anne's Consul (possibly the only car ever registered to her) was 298CGU.

Very surprisingly this last had a V5 issued in 2012 (i.e. while she was still alive) and is currently showing as taxed!

 

And just “re-taxed” for a further 12 months. Interesting 

[RichardK]

On 05/01/2024 at 21:07, mk2_craig said:

Not according to the Torygraph!

Liberace was never as cool as Cherry.

And holy shit how much effort did the Torygraph go to to find an image where she is missing one significant detail when discussing fame and roles in '50s arts?

[Pieman]

On 15/02/2024 at 20:41, mk2_craig said:

And just “re-taxed” for a further 12 months. Interesting 

In the words of Kyle from South Park....get the f**k out of here!

If that HAS survived, that is awesome and I want to see it!

[LightBulbFun]

On 15/02/2024 at 20:41, mk2_craig said:

And just “re-taxed” for a further 12 months. Interesting 

its still curiously not on the MID, so would imply not insured

I always thought the DVLA would do your face in if you taxed your vehicle without insurance, that they do eventually quaerry the MID when a vehicle is taxed and if its not on there, they get antsy with you

 

certainly from what I have seen in the past that was the case

[quicksilver]

9 hours ago, Pieman said:

In the words of Kyle from South Park....get the f**k out of here!

If that HAS survived, that is awesome and I want to see it!

Same here, it would be an incredible restoration considering the appalling state it was in when it was removed over 20 years ago. Could someone maybe have put it on some sort of auto-renewing tax to prevent it being taken away given its unusual status of being an immobile home on a public road and in the free tax class anyway, and the computer just keeps on updating the expiry date every year because nobody has ever asked the DVLA to stop it?

[scruff]

Fascinating story. I do wonder if one of Miss Smith’s friendly neighbours took it upon themselves to register it at some point and has just plodded on with it in her memory? 

[SilverMachine]

3 hours ago, scruff said:

Fascinating story. I do wonder if one of Miss Smith’s friendly neighbours took it upon themselves to register it at some point and has just plodded on with it in her memory? 

id think they would have struggled to be able to remove the car if that was the case? unless it was in fact unlawfully removed? which seems more likely, unfortunatley. did any one manage to trace where the car ended up?

hope that new resident is haunted by anne.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I bet it's just the V5 which lives on with someone who chanced their luck. 

[Missy Charm]

An informative piece about Miss Naysmith and her life can be found here: https://josephclift.com/writing/miss-naysmith/.  It contains various details not seen elsewhere as well as - for those here - another photo of the Ford Consul.  The red Mercedes that replaced it was, apparently, torched; people these days forget how much crime there was twenty years ago.  

Naysmith seems to have been the architect of the life she led; rejecting of society rather than, as observers assumed, rejected by it.  It's a case that raises interesting an interesting ethical question, namely should that sort of thing be allowed?  At some level her choices would have been detrimental to others and her behaviour, at times, left a lot to be desired, but that's one of the prices of liberty.  But the counter-argument is that we are straitjacketed by convention and cannot comprehend such a life of apparent autonomy.  We can't all live like that.  Ought one or two of us do so, if only to hold a mirror up to the majority?  

Incidentally, the verse on the side of the Consul is from Dacre's 'I'll be Your Sweetheart', an 1899 music hall number.

[Split_Pin]

It was simply a lifestyle choice, same as the rest of us make, for whatever reasons.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I bet it's just the V5 which lives on with someone who chanced their luck. 

but that does not quite explain the colour change that happened a good couple years after it was sadly removed 

On 05/01/2024 at 13:33, LightBulbFun said:

it is however curiously showing a colour change on the 25th of the 2nd 2004 from an original colour of Blue to a new colour of Green, a couple years after it was taken away...

so thats most curious, either a ringer, or someone restored and repainted it? but yet again the fact its taxed but not on the MID is odd...

[Petrolize]

I’ve taxed a classic car around the same age as her Ford without it being insured quite recently (didn’t think it would go through but it did) 

[Pieman]

51 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

An informative piece about Miss Naysmith and her life can be found here: https://josephclift.com/writing/miss-naysmith/. 

I'm not crying, you are.  

I now want to go to this little corner of London to see where she once lived and pay my own tribute to her.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Petrolize said:

I’ve taxed a classic car around the same age as her Ford without it being insured quite recently (didn’t think it would go through but it did) 

the DVLA will happily let you tax a vehicle without insurance but as I understand it they do eventually query the MID and if it comes up as not insured, they send a nastygram letter 

(its MOT they wont let you tax without, unless exempt)

 

but maybe the process has changed in recent years? my last direct dealing with such a taxed without insurance matter was about 2013, when the previous owner of my car got into a battle with the DVLA over it

as they had un-SORN'ed and taxed the car, because some departmental lady thought it was a mobility scooter, but the computer system correctly flagged it up as being a motor car due to its revenue weight, and since it had no insurance the DVLA then sent him nastygrams for having a vehicle on the road with no insurance

 

On 17/02/2024 at 12:33, quicksilver said:

Same here, it would be an incredible restoration considering the appalling state it was in when it was removed over 20 years ago. Could someone maybe have put it on some sort of auto-renewing tax to prevent it being taken away given its unusual status of being an immobile home on a public road and in the free tax class anyway, and the computer just keeps on updating the expiry date every year because nobody has ever asked the DVLA to stop it?

this is an interesting theory, normally theres no way to generally have tax auto-renew like this, but I know vehicles in the NTFORU taxation class and, mobility scooters have their tax renew automatically 

so the DVLA computer system does have the ability to do it, so its not out of the realm of possibility someone managed to wrangle it for this Ford Consul

but again if it was supposedly taken away from her in 2002, that would not explain the 6 total keepers it had with the last being in 2005, (which is interesting in its own right, as it means it had a colour change and then a keeper change after that colour change...)

 

and I *think* by 2005, they had introduced the rules such that when you did a keeper change it cancelled the vehicle tax, so if there where any special arrangements I imagine those would of been stopped, when the keeper changes happened

I mean theres still the question of just who was it registered too when she did still have it, given legally should would of been of no fixed abode I think? 

 

can a car be registered to itself? The Autoshite Paradox?

[yes oui si]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

can a car be registered to itself? The Autoshite Paradox?

There are trees which legally own themselves... 

[Bmwdumptruck]

If it ended up somewhere in the trade it might be insured by a traders policy. Not too sure how they work these days but I came close to swapping to one back in the nineties when I was dabbling in a fair few motors each year. 
Could be it ended up with a trader who could have restored it and has kept it as his own.  My cousin use to have an old Granada Ghia on his books.  It was always for sale, but listed for quite a lot more than it was actually worth, so it never sold. He used it as his personal car most of the time, but just insured it with the traders policy.

[quicksilver]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

the DVLA will happily let you tax a vehicle without insurance but as I understand it they do eventually query the MID and if it comes up as not insured, they send a nastygram letter 

(its MOT they wont let you tax without, unless exempt)

 

That's another good question. She had the car before the historic MOT exemption existed, so how was she managing to either tax it without an MOT or get an MOT on a car that never moved and obviously wasn't capable of passing? One of the articles said the residents would club together to pay her tax before it became exempt, but it would need to pass an MOT for that. Did she have a friendly tester who'd 'test' it and give it a pass without even seeing it?

That makes me think there was some kind of special situation going on and the normal rules didn't apply, and whatever was done is still in effect and keeping it alive on the system. It doesn't explain the keeper change in 2005 though - a new V5 could have been automatic but an actual keeper change would have had to be instigated by a person.

[Petrolize]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

the DVLA will happily let you tax a vehicle without insurance but as I understand it they do eventually query the MID and if it comes up as not insured, they send a nastygram letter 

(its MOT they wont let you tax without, unless exempt)

 

but maybe the process has changed in recent years? my last direct dealing with such a taxed without insurance matter was about 2013, when the previous owner of my car got into a battle with the DVLA over it

 

I kept expecting a snotty letter telling me to insure it but no, almost a year on. 

It appears you can tax a historic car for a year (for free), never have it insured and never get a dvla letter asking it to be insured. They do still send a reminder though, so the current owner has almost certainly got a reminder through and just went online or to a post office and taxed it for free. 

[Rust Collector]

2 hours ago, Bmwdumptruck said:

If it ended up somewhere in the trade it might be insured by a traders policy.

It would still show up on the MID if it was on a trade policy.

[SilverMachine]

the plot thickens, regarding mot,  people that could provide pass certificates without seeing the vehicle for a certain amount of pictures of queen liz, were actually not that uncommon back then, and these days there are probably still people that are clever enough to do the digital version?  although a bare shell can be tested and pass as fail items are not fitted, ie if it has no headlights it is not to be used after dark. theres always the option that a friend in the motor trade had loaned her some trade plates? as far as i know these can be swapped many times in one day so there would be no way of tracing on mid?

[3VOM]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I mean theres still the question of just who was it registered too when she did still have it, given legally should would of been of no fixed abode I think? 

Usual way around being NFA is your letters go to the local benefits office, as that's where you get your money from. Though might not apply given the lady's lifestyle.

[horriblemercedes]

12 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

and I *think* by 2005, they had introduced the rules such that when you did a keeper change it cancelled the vehicle tax, so if there where any special arrangements I imagine those would of been stopped, when the keeper changes happened

No, that happened in 2014, I seem to recall. Definitely not as early as 2005. It happened at the same time as paper tax discs stopped

[Petrolize]

Oddly enough another reg checker (which is normally 100% accurate if you can read the code) says nothing happened in 2005 but instead changed hands in Jan 2009. By that point the car (in whatever state) would’ve been worth quite a bit of money. 

To put it into perspective the 1961 consul Mk2 in 2009 would be like going and buying a 1975 Mk3 Cortina just now. The car would’ve been worth money back then, and must have been restored, and is still with a long term owner who may not know about the cars past. 

[Petrolize]

1 minute ago, horriblemercedes said:

No, that happened in 2014, I seem to recall. Definitely not as early as 2005. It happened at the same time as paper tax discs stopped

100% correct, it happened in October 2014, it still says on the little slips you get when you sell a car something like “did you know since October 2014 tax is no longer transferable” as DVLA think we might all still be living under a rock the past 10 years. 

[Asimo]

Just encountered this on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/henrybloomfield/16751664532

 

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, quicksilver said:

That's another good question. She had the car before the historic MOT exemption existed, so how was she managing to either tax it without an MOT or get an MOT on a car that never moved and obviously wasn't capable of passing? One of the articles said the residents would club together to pay her tax before it became exempt, but it would need to pass an MOT for that. Did she have a friendly tester who'd 'test' it and give it a pass without even seeing it?

That makes me think there was some kind of special situation going on and the normal rules didn't apply, and whatever was done is still in effect and keeping it alive on the system. It doesn't explain the keeper change in 2005 though - a new V5 could have been automatic but an actual keeper change would have had to be instigated by a person.

thats a good point about the MOT, being 1961 it would not of been pre 1960 MOT exempt either, so she or whoever it was registered too would of had to produce a valid MOT certificate to tax it...

unless it was declared MOT exempt under section F?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f7eceefe90e07741465559a/v112-declaration-of-exemption-from-mot.pdf

Quote

F: Vehicle used only to pass from land occupied by the person keeping the vehicle to other land occupied by them, and not travelling on the road for more than a total of 6 miles a week.

I think it could be squeaked under those rules, since its certainly not moving more then a total of 6 miles a week!

 

1 hour ago, Petrolize said:

Oddly enough another reg checker (which is normally 100% accurate if you can read the code) says nothing happened in 2005 but instead changed hands in Jan 2009. By that point the car (in whatever state) would’ve been worth quite a bit of money. 

To put it into perspective the 1961 consul Mk2 in 2009 would be like going and buying a 1975 Mk3 Cortina just now. The car would’ve been worth money back then, and must have been restored, and is still with a long term owner who may not know about the cars past. 

if I think its the tool your using, try if you have the means to, look it up by its chassis number with a random dot place in it or at the start/end, this gets the tool to spit out its other record, and you may see a bit more info  

 

its a bit of a quirk with Experian back end based tools, is vehicles tend to have multiple records of sorts and which one you get served can be a bit of a crap shoot, but depending on the record you can fuzz things and get the other records

 

for example you can see depending on how I input the data, I either get only the latest keeper change or all of them

 

and I have noticed in recent times they have become sadly even bit shitter in not providing all the details especially if you look up a vehicle thats been dormant for many years, it wont provide make model info properly or keeper change dates properly either, and you cant pull up its alternative record by intentionally miss-typing the chassis number (that trick only works for vehicles which have been recently active)

it used to be even if a vehicle came off the road in 1987 or whenever, I could still get its keeper count, but now if you look up such a vehicle you get no keeper count whatsoever

for example if you look up FPH782J, it used to be the case that I could see its full keeper history count, and it showed up properly

but now you can see the data quality is poorer

so make sure when you use 3rd party tools that you are aware of this, its something I am always on my toes about!

and this particular issue is something I need to bring up with my assigned tech support agent before I top up the credits again, to see if they can do anything about it, because given I do pay for this tool, I'd like it to work fully as it used!

 

its also worth noting in general that a V5 being issued is not necessarily  always a keeper change, the Last V5 issued for my car was about 11 days ago, but I have owned it and been the registered keeper of it since July 2019  

1 hour ago, horriblemercedes said:

No, that happened in 2014, I seem to recall. Definitely not as early as 2005. It happened at the same time as paper tax discs stopped

thanks! I was not sure if it was introduced when SORN was introduced or when continuous SORN was introduced