F**ked Black Rover 827 SLi - The Mistake Machine

[adw1977]

33 minutes ago, stuboy said:

ive not read about this 800?

This thread

[Noel Tidybeard]

The firing order for the Honda 2.7L V6 engine (commonly found in the 1996–2000 Honda Accord/Prelude) is 1-4-2-5-3-6. The distributor for this engine rotates in a counterclockwise direction. 

Key Details:

• Firing Order: 1-4-2-5-3-6
• Distributor Rotation: Counterclockwise
• Cylinder Locations: The #1 cylinder is located on the backside of the engine (near the firewall), along with #2 and #3.

[chodweaver]

On 14/04/2026 at 21:31, St.Jude said:

You sure it’s vinegar and bicarb? I thought it’d be salt? Bicarb to neutralise it?

Oop! You're right - vinegar AND salt together, then neutralise with the bicarb.

[St.Jude]

Here is the view:

The new battery has been on charge since Thursday night. New spark plugs (Bosch) replacing the old ones (Bosch). I checked the HT leads and they’re in the right place (just to be sure)

It ran again for 3/4 seconds but gradually petered out. Was too slow to apply throttle, but it’s not started since. Treated it to another 5 litres of BPs finest so that the needle is well above empty. Nothing.

I think next is to inspect the dizzy. Will have to check fuel delivery to each bank as the back plug (well one of them) smelt like petrol but the front 3 were bone dry. All black sooty though.

At this point it has had:

- fuel pipe was leaking due to incorrect banjo fitment. FIXED
- 6 new spark plugs
- new battery
- change of ignition coil (no difference)
- no air intake, straight to throttle body
- new throttle body
- new electronic idle valve
- new master relay
- resoldered master relay
- no EML
- no lights from ECU (PITA to check that)
- resoldered TDC sensor but may have to check that again

Can’t be much left to check?!

[HMC]

Put confused as i feel youve covered everything there. I’m in awe at your persevereance and patience.

[Gaffer]

Forgive me as I know nothing about these but is there a chance that you’re bypassing an airflow meter by running it with an open throttle body?

[St.Jude]

46 minutes ago, HMC said:

Put confused as i feel youve covered everything there. I’m in awe at your persevereance and patience.

I cannot have another “told you so” by the wife. That is an incredible piece of motivation.

23 minutes ago, Gaffer said:

Forgive me as I know nothing about these but is there a chance that you’re bypassing an airflow meter by running it with an open throttle body?

No. There is an air filter that was removed when I got it with no obvious plugs etc on it, which feed in to a rubber pipe. That leads to the throttle. That has been removed and the only thing I can see on that is a port for the EGR to feed gases back in to the combustion. But that in itself goes across the throttle opening so I doubt that’s enough for it to not start, especially as it didn’t start when it was connected too!

[IronStar]

I may be talking out of my arse here as I’m not familiar with these, but do these have an immobilizer? Are you sure that wiring to it is alright? I had similar symptoms of start for a few seconds, then dying when immo box was missing on Palio. One paired immo box and ECU later, and it happily started and ran. 

[St.Jude]

9 hours ago, IronStar said:

I may be talking out of my arse here as I’m not familiar with these, but do these have an immobilizer? Are you sure that wiring to it is alright? I had similar symptoms of start for a few seconds, then dying when immo box was missing on Palio. One paired immo box and ECU later, and it happily started and ran. 

I think it does but that’s not stopping it. The immobiliser will stop the fuel pump and ignition if it’s not happy. Both of those are working.

Not to say it can’t contribute to hard starting or a stall but if it were duff I’d get no life, but it has started twice in a week. Albeit briefly.

[Dead_E23]

Will it run on easy start?

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, Dead_E23 said:

Will it run on easy start?

Nope. I can open the throttle and shoot it in and it’ll do nothing. In fairness I can’t spray it in while I start it as I have my hand on the relay, my other hand on the throttle, so I load it up and then start it.

For a reminder the car is being started via the relay as the ignition barrel is faulty. The key is always in the on position and has started with it like that.

[Dead_E23]

Does it have a spark?

[St.Jude]

Just now, Dead_E23 said:

Does it have a spark?

It has a spark on the cylinder 4, as that is the only one I checked the other day.

Definitely a spark on the king lead.

[Dead_E23]

Is the valve gear moving when you turn it over? Does it sound like it has compression etc?

[St.Jude]

47 minutes ago, Dead_E23 said:

Is the valve gear moving when you turn it over? Does it sound like it has compression etc?

It sounds like it has compression yeah. You can hear it going “thwump thwump” and some gases are being created on the EGR return pipe.

[Dead_E23]

My next step would be to attempt to dig out my timing light from wherever it is.   (Probably with my Gunsons Colortune).

[Bear]

I have dejavu reading this.

Car's haunted.

[St.Jude]

29 minutes ago, Bear said:

I have dejavu reading this.

Car's a cunt.

FTFY

[sutty2006]

I know nothing about rover fuel systems but I’ll throw this at you just incase. Do these have an in tank fuel pump? If so, maybe the pipe into the pump is bad, if there’s not much fuel in it, it might be drawing air in above the fuel line. I know discovery’s can be bad for that especially if you put a defender td5 pump in a discovery td5…. Picky bastards. 

[St.Jude]

3 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

I know nothing about rover fuel systems but I’ll throw this at you just incase. Do these have an in tank fuel pump? If so, maybe the pipe into the pump is bad, if there’s not much fuel in it, it might be drawing air in above the fuel line. I know discovery’s can be bad for that especially if you put a defender td5 pump in a discovery td5…. Picky bastards. 

The pump is inside the tank, I can take it out and check easy enough as I’ve already had it off once before. I’d be surprised but then again the car has been nose down due to the driveways being what they are. So maybe. Bit shit if it is though!

I did think about this last night and have ordered a timing gun, compression tester and one of those spark plug testing things. They’ll come tomorrow, hopefully Wednesday lunchtime I can do some testing with them.

Also considering removal of the fuel injectors to see if any of them are particularly bad. I am inclined to remove one, turn it over, and see what it dumps in to a cup. But I have an inkling that’s a shit idea.

[Mr Pastry]

Just from a quick read-through:

If it is firing, the timing must be about right, so the TDC sensor must be working at that point. 

If it then dies, either it isn't getting enough fuel, or the power to the ignition is failing.

Looking at the ignition, and assuming that the battery is good, re- check the soldering to the TDC sensor mentioned earlier, and given the ignition switch problems, try a temporary hot wire from the battery + to the coil +.   Don't leave it permanently connected.

[Bear]

1 hour ago, St.Jude said:

The pump is inside the tank, I can take it out and check easy enough as I’ve already had it off once before. I’d be surprised but then again the car has been nose down due to the driveways being what they are. So maybe. Bit shit if it is though!

I did think about this last night and have ordered a timing gun, compression tester and one of those spark plug testing things. They’ll come tomorrow, hopefully Wednesday lunchtime I can do some testing with them.

Also considering removal of the fuel injectors to see if any of them are particularly bad. I am inclined to remove one, turn it over, and see what it dumps in to a cup. But I have an inkling that’s a shit idea.

It's how you test them, so it's not that bad an idea.

Thing is, it ran, and then just.. faltered. Unless it was doing that thing where enough ingredients and motion and sparks make a petrol car splutter - if it RAN - then the valves, sparks and compression are happening, and either the ingredients are not there, or the sparks aren't strong enough. My thoughts would be fuel (when the RX-7 stopped working, it was because the fuel leak had reached the point of being so bad the pressure was too low), or an earth connection that was okay, but fails as soon as there's movement going on. Pretty sure when this was first tackled and the immobiliser issues were the first avenue the earths were checked.

The air in fuel pump thing @sutty2006 mentions could be a factor but diesels are WAY more sensitive to air in fuel lines. However - I may have mentioned this before - I had a Golf Clipper that would regularly conk out. Not injected - the problem was rust flakes in the tank (from the filler neck fortunately) clogging the intake. The fix to keep going was to undo the petrol filter, get a bicycle pump with the conical nozzle on, and 'burp' the tank with a shot of air backwards up the pipe. If I'd had half a brain back then I'd have stuck a strong magnet under the tank away from the fuel filler (in the end the gearbox went and I sold the car, but I'd been going to fill a stainless fillter neck).

[wesacosa]

you could potentially temporarily stick an inline fuel pressure gauge in and see if the pressure is ok during cranking and if it dies off just before the car conks out

[St.Jude]

57 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

you could potentially temporarily stick an inline fuel pressure gauge in and see if the pressure is ok during cranking and if it dies off just before the car conks out

Have ordered a gauge for that too.

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Just from a quick read-through:

If it is firing, the timing must be about right, so the TDC sensor must be working at that point. 

If it then dies, either it isn't getting enough fuel, or the power to the ignition is failing.

Looking at the ignition, and assuming that the battery is good, re- check the soldering to the TDC sensor mentioned earlier, and given the ignition switch problems, try a temporary hot wire from the battery + to the coil +.   Don't leave it permanently connected.

Will double check the TDC sensor but the ECU will flash if it can’t find it, and the ECU wasn’t  flashing last time but I will redo it anyway. As for the ignition, I’ve got the cover off of the starter relay and I push that together to get it to start.

1 hour ago, Bear said:

Thing is, it ran, and then just.. faltered. Unless it was doing that thing where enough ingredients and motion and sparks make a petrol car splutter - if it RAN - then the valves, sparks and compression are happening, and either the ingredients are not there, or the sparks aren't strong enough.

Yeah, but it’s stranger still that it won’t start again after that. 

[Brigsy]

Will it fire on brake cleaner?

I would also check fuel pressure. Ive seen a few bad starting petrols when pressure has been low for whatever reason.

To test injectors you could take the rails off the inlet and crank the starter to see if they fire with some blue roll underneath or injectors into small bottles etc. Its sketchy as fcuk so watch what your doing.

Its not uncommon for injectors to stick and gum up when laid up. You can also pikey clean/resuscitate them on the bench with a can of carb cleaner and activating the injector with 12v. Ive done a few sets, you can literally watch the spray pattern come good.

[Mr Pastry]

24 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

As for the ignition, I’ve got the cover off of the starter relay and I push that together to get it to start.

(Sigh....)

I haven't got the diagram handy, but I am not sure whether the ignition is fed from the starter relay.  It may not be.  Don't assume anything

Even if it is, that may be a bad connection.  Hence feeding the coil direct from the battery.  If that keeps it running, it will tell us quite a lot.

But hey, you know best!  

[St.Jude]

5 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

(Sigh....)

I haven't got the diagram handy, but I am not sure whether the ignition is fed from the starter relay.  It may not be.  Don't assume anything

Even if it is, that may be a bad connection.  Hence feeding the coil direct from the battery.  If that keeps it running, it will tell us quite a lot.

But hey, you know best!  

Don’t be like that.

I am only telling you what I’m doing. I am not saying what I am doing is best.

[bezzabsa]

how many times have you kicked/swore at it??? have you tried hitting it with a nearby branch?

Have you told it that it's a good car??

I know 800's wiring would have made even Lucas jealous, but it does seem to be an ungrateful b@stard!!!

[Mr Pastry]

9 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Don’t be like that.

I am only telling you what I’m doing. I am not saying what I am doing is best.

I'm sorry.  I do understand your frustration with this thing, which is why I am trying to help.  And it is clearly a struggle doing it on your own when you need 3 pairs of hands.  I may be quite wrong but I am just trying to get back to basics with it.

Hence, does it run with 12 volts applied directly to the coil, yes or no?    I would think also that the ECU might be able to see the crank sensor when the engine is stationary, but a bad contact due to vibration could upset things and not necessarily show a fault.  

 

[Mr Pastry]

Just looked at the HBOL diagram and the starter relay only controls the starter motor.

The ignition coil is fed from the fuse box, so comes directly from the ignition switch.