Lankytim’s general shite related ranting, Ft mystery 2CV and P4 shittery.

[dollywobbler]

Ah yes. Reversing a 2CV must always be done with care. The second reason is they can fall over if you wang the steering wheel over...

Hope it can be sorted. Used to be quite a common thing as Citroen just stopped peening the nut on the back of the gearbox at some point.

[Stinkwheel]

Bad luck in the gearbox front, amazed any are still around that haven’t had this sorted out. hope you can get it sorted out. If you should need a recommendation as to someone who can fix, get in touch with Rick Pembro. The old school best practice thing to do to try and avoid anything similar in future is to never brake in reverse without the clutch depressed

[chaseracer]

7 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

If you should need a recommendation as to someone who can fix, get in touch with Rick Pembro...

http://gearbox-guru.co.uk

[forddeliveryboy]

On 14/09/2024 at 12:15, Lankytim said:

We’ve had our first FTP, and potentially it might require a new gearbox!

we were planning on going to a local car show this morning but as I took the 2cv out of the garage and reversed onto the drive there was a buzz from the gearbox area and then a horrible clunk and the engine stalled. It seems I’ve “unwound” reverse gear which is apparently quite common and perhaps even a rite of passage for every 2cv owner. The box might be fixable in situ but the worse case scenario is a replacement box which isn’t the end of the world and gives me the opportunity to clean everything and learn more on this 2CV learning curve I’m on.  
 

 

 

 

First, don't try and select any other gears while it's in the state it is at present, things can lock up completely which then needs the gearbox removing.

Your situation should be capable of being fixed in situ by anyone fairly used to gearboxes, or if you're feeling capable then see  http://www.benboyle.com/unwound.htm and https://citroenclassic.org.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2CV-Gearbox-Unwinding-Debacle-Revision-2.pdf

It's not a difficult job for a keen home mechanic who isn't easily scared and proceeds carefully with a good guide.  You don't need specialised tools, just good lighting and a longish punch.

On what looks to be a tidy and original car with lowish miles, it'd be good to try and keep the original box for a whole host of reasons, although it's common to have a less than perfect 3rd gear syncro once a ring has had to be rewound. 

[somewhatfoolish]

Never use engine braking in reverse, even when they're properly staked on it's still not held in place very well.

[Talbot]

On 15/07/2024 at 14:10, Lankytim said:

I took a gamble on the parts cannon and replaced the coil and HT leads. The new coil is a new style resin type rather than the older oil filled variant. When I removed the old coil I found the underside soaked with oil, maybe the oil has leaked out and it’s causing it to overheat and break down in use?

The 2CV racers tend to use a certain Harley Davidson coil, which is designed for wasted spark on a two-cylinder engine.  It works remarkably well, even when baking hot and driving flat-out for 24hrs.  I don't know the details of the exact one, but there are others here that will know.

As for running the engine flat out... again, given that the 24hr race cars are the same 602cc engine you have, with a lumpier cam, a larger carburettor and an increased compression ratio, and they manage to be driven absolutely flat-out for well over 24hrs, I doubt you'll have any issue at all.  Bearing in mind that the racers use everything else absolutely standard.  Bog-standard brakes, gearbox, cooling system, electrical system, etc.etc.  There is actually very little that is upgraded for them to be able to run at full-bore for extended periods of time.

[Lankytim]

Thanks to a 2cv Facebook group and some very patient individual talking me through the procedure the unwound gear selector ring is now back on! The very fine threads were intact and after a lot of head scratching it managed to wind it back together by hand. Now I know the process I think I could do it in an hour or so.

The factory peening which is needed to prevent it unwinding was nonexistent so I’ll peen it on myself. A job for tomorrow and a test drive to confirm all is well. 

[chaseracer]

1 hour ago, Lankytim said:

Thanks to a 2cv Facebook group and some very patient individual talking me through the procedure the unwound gear selector ring is now back on! The very fine threads were intact and after a lot of head scratching it managed to wind it back together by hand. Now I know the process I think I could do it in an hour or so.

The factory peening which is needed to prevent it unwinding was nonexistent so I’ll peen it on myself. A job for tomorrow and a test drive to confirm all is well. 

That all looks 100% inside there, Tim... 😎

[Lankytim]

11 hours ago, chaseracer said:

That all looks 100% inside there, Tim... 😎

It’s not full of rust or shrapnel so that’s something at least! 

[Lankytim]

Yesterday I peened over the errant gear selector ring, topped off the oil, reassembled everything and went for a test drive. Everything is now working as it should, amazing!  I must say it seems pretty counterintuitive taking an exquisitely machined gear cluster and belting it with a hammer and chisel - my anxiety levels were through the roof!

To celebrate I went for a spin and cleaned the engine bay and gearbox so I can monitor for leaks more easily (plus it looks nicer) and fitted the replica dealer sticker, which really looks the part. Well recommended! 

[Lankytim]

I wasn’t sure where to post these pics but I thought that as it features a 2CV I might as well stick them here for everyone to enjoy/take the piss out of. 

As many shiters may know I own a slightly crunchy P4 which I love but wish wasn’t as crunchy, after spying a fairly local similar P4 for sale I thought I’d have a look and ended up buying it. It’s a 1961 100 and has been stood approx 4 years on a driveway and should hopefully only need light recommissioning. After doing the deal, freeing off seized brakes and blowing up tyres P4 was extricated from the drive, stuck on the dolly and dragged  home. 
 

Bodywise it’s good but needs a damn good polish. Interior 5/10 but the engine is seized! Hopefully some ATF and diesel down the bores should help to free it off. 
 

It landed on my driveway but other cars needed shuffling around to get it next to the garage so my old P4 was used to drag it up to get the Laguna out then the 2CV was used to drag it up to the garage, a task which the little flat twin engine managed with ease. I can’t see me actually replacing the locked up engine with a 692cc Citroen motor anytime soon though. 
 

 

[Lankytim]

Panic over. ATF and diesel freed off the engine, although I also managed to rust proof the front end of the car, garden, shed etc in the process. 

[Surface Rust]

Matching P4s! You've raised the AS game here...

Also, it is widely acknowledged that Citroen A series vehicles are the best prime movers for broken P4s.

[Lankytim]

16 hours ago, Surface Rust said:

Matching P4s! You've raised the AS game here...

Also, it is widely acknowledged that Citroen A series vehicles are the best prime movers for broken P4s.

These A series Citroens can pretty much do anything can’t they!

I’ve got in touch with a previous owner of my P4, he restored it in the 80s and rust proofed it to the max so that goes some way to explaining its nice bodywork.  There’s lots of photos of it during his ownership which he’s promised to show me, he also has the original plates which he said I can have too. Nice fella.

Here’s a photo I found on the P4 drivers guild Facebook group which was taken in 1983/4 and shows NKN at a national rally being inspected by Gordon Bashford, the designer of the P4. Back then it was dark blue it seems. 

[Stinkwheel]

And thats done it, I've been trying to ignore all the red hot P4 action on here recently, but this thread has done it, now i'm going to have to try a P4 at some point

[Six-cylinder]

21 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

And thats done it, I've been trying to ignore all the red hot P4 action on here recently, but this thread has done it, now i'm going to have to try a P4 at some point

I was lucky enough to be lent a  Rover 110 by @Zelandeth for a few weeks in summer 2023. I drove it as my go to car and really enjoyed having it to use. The only negative was heavy steering with low gearing.

[Stinkwheel]

Just now, Six-cylinder said:

I was lucky enough to be lent a  Rover 110 by @Zelandeth for a few weeks in summer 2023. I drove it as my go to car and really enjoyed having it to use. The only negative was heavy steering with low gearing.

You arent putting me off, in fact, making it worse

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, Stinkwheel said:

You arent putting me off, in fact, making it worse

I am not trying to put you off. It was still good for daily life.

One of the guys in the Milton keynes Classic Car Club added electric power steering to his.

[Lankytim]

I’ve been tinkering away in this thing on and off but still haven’t got it running yet. The fuel pump was taken to bits and combined with parts from another SU pump I had in the scrap pile and retrieved after a few months sitting outside behind the garage. Amazingly I’ve ended up with a functional pump somehow. I’d never worked on these before but once you get stuck in they’re amazingly simple and have loads of YouTube guides to support any tinkering efforts. 
 

Fitting the pump revealed the next hurdle- fuel pissing out of the carb throat. The carb as allegedly been rebuilt but hasn’t been set up and was only loosely bolted to the engine. The P4 drivers guild FB group has the general opinion that it’s probably float chamber related so that will be my next port of call, although a brief investigation seems to this the float and valve working at least to some  extent so I’ll do some more digging. Presumably the new plugs I fitted are now covered in ATF and petrol. There’s going to be a real smoke show when this thing finally fires up! 

[High Jetter]

Sort the carb, clean the plugs, turn the key.

[somewhatfoolish]

Please change that hose before putting it back on the road! That stuff is not suitable for fuel.

[lesapandre]

The floats can become damaged and let a little fuel in and thus not float properly - so take a careful look. 

[Lankytim]

10 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Sort the carb, clean the plugs, turn the key.

That’s the general idea! 
 

One very annoying feature I’ve discovered on these Rovers is the bonnet that’s made from two separate panels joined under the trim on the centre line. Rain water can pass through the gap and gets the engine including spark plugs and distributor soaking wet. Come on, Rover from yesteryear, sort this out! 

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, Lankytim said:

That’s the general idea! 
 

One very annoying feature I’ve discovered on these Rovers is the bonnet that’s made from two separate panels joined under the trim on the centre line. Rain water can pass through the gap and gets the engine including spark plugs and distributor soaking wet. Come on, Rover from yesteryear, sort this out! 

Piece of pipe insulation pushed around the join is apparently the go-to solution.  I always figured something like a bit of fuel hose would look less conspicuous and less likely to melt when it inevitably falls off and ends up sitting on the engine.

Though once I changed the HT leads (after I got sick of repeatedly getting zapped) mine didn't seem to care in the slightest about getting wet.  Including when I went after the engine with the pressure washer and degreaser (it had been running basically with only half a rocker cover gasket for some time so was an oily, slimy mess requiring that treatment).  So I think if everything is in good order it shouldn't be a problem.

[Lankytim]

Guess what everyone? It’s only running! The valve in the float chamber was fettled and seemed to stop the issue with petrol pouring all over the place. A fully charged battery was added, the fuel system primed and after some extended cranking the engine finally burst into life! 
 

As expected tons of oil smoke came from the exhaust, thanks to the ATF and diesel used to free off the seized engine but the smog soon cleared and it seems to be running really well.

The throttle pedal doesn’t seem to be connected so that will need to be investigated but so far so good! 
 

[2flags]

That's looking good! Well done for getting it running.

[Lankytim]

Hey gang, it’s finally off its axle stands and driving, albeit up and down the paved part of my garden. The brakes appear to be working, they were binding at little bit on the front but with the engine running they seem to release fine now, maybe it’s down to the servo being in operation.

The throttle pedal is now adjusted up so it works, one of the cranks on the pushrod system in the linkage wasn’t positioned properly so it wouldn’t throw over and got jammed. The bonnet release cable has now also been adjusted to it works too. The previous owner said it has snapped but happily was fixable in a few minutes. 
 

The float chamber is still randomly over filling and spraying petrol out all over the place, I’m not sure if the float  valve is sticking open or the fuel pressure is too high or something but a tap on the float chamber with the handle of a screwdriver fixes it. Obviously this needs to be sorted before it hits the road. There’s also a coolant leak which I’m hoping is a hose clip rather than the new water pump fitted by the previous owner. I can see there being quite a bit of snagging once this old crate hits the road again. 

[Lankytim]

This was recently raced at Standlake in Oxfordshire, these things are still getting dragged out of garages and barns and the ones that are too far gone are either ending up on the track or simply weighed in. Some nice examples do return to the road though.  Are cars like the P4  increasing in number as forgotten examples  are rediscovered after being off the road after a long period of time?  I think there’s more P4s out there than potential owners! 

I’ve read that this particular blue P4 was especially rotten and with the abundance of better projects available didn’t really stand much chance of seeing the road again. 

[Lankytim]

Another couple of jobs completed. The float chamber valve was removed, inspected and seems to be now working, also the rear mounts for the fuel tank were hanging off. I’m not sure what happened that resulted in this damage but both mounts were deformed and had been pulled away from the chassis, maybe someone attaching a tow rope to one of the mounts? Anyway. They were carefully hammered back into shape and new fixings added. A maiden voyage was planned on the actual road but thanks to all this bloody rain we’ve been having it’s been curtailed until a time It isn’t pissing it down. I absolutely hate the U.K. weather. 
 

I also need to find a way of reattaching the chrome trim around the screen, hopefully it won’t involve a new screen rubber. 

[Lankytim]

Maiden voyage cancelled today! I thought I’d fixed the fuel leak from the carb but it reared its ugly head again. Despite appearing absolutely fine last time I checked the float was firmly stuck at the bottom of the float chamber. Retrieval showed it was full of fuel!  I’ll have to dig around online and see if I can find a replacement. 
 

MISSION ABORTED.