1963 Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail. Bad fuel tank and leaks.

[captain_70s]

43 minutes ago, artdjones said:

In the UK car radiator repairers used to also repair tanks. 

@MrsJuular had her Toledo's tank repaired by a radiator place in Glasgow just the other week.

[Dyslexic Viking]

The biggest problem I see with getting a radiator or a fuel tank done here is that few do that work and the cost is sure to be very high. So if new is available even if it has to be adapted to work I prefer that.

[artdjones]

16 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

The biggest problem I see with getting a radiator or a fuel tank done here is that few do that work and the cost is sure to be very high. So if new is available even if it has to be adapted to work I prefer that.

New tanks are available at around €1000. So it may still be worth asking about repair. There seems to be a lot of old tractors in Norway,  surely someone is soldering up their radiators.

[Dyslexic Viking]

6 minutes ago, artdjones said:

New tanks are available at around €1000. So it may still be worth asking about repair. There seems to be a lot of old tractors in Norway,  surely someone is soldering up their radiators.

New aluminum radiators are less than that so something that should also be considered. And when the radiator on one of dad's old tractors broke it was replaced with a new one and the old one thrown away and I guess that's what most do now.

[artdjones]

10 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

New aluminum radiators are less than that so something that should also be considered. And when the radiator on one of dad's old tractors broke it was replaced with a new one and the old one thrown away and I guess that's what most do now.

Lets just hope it's the o ring or a weeping seam. If its a seam, the sealers that get poured in and sloshed around work well. Of course any rust more than tiny pinholes would need more than that.

[Nullzwei]

2 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I've done some research and Mercedes has done some weird things with the fuel tank on these.

What I think is a drain plug is not that it is a filter/screen thing for the fuel inlet. And the only form of gasket this has is an o-ring. So it could just be the o-ring has failed. Picture of this below.

 

And where this goes into the tank is even weirder. Yellow arrow is where this is screwed into the tank on the underside. The hole where the red arrow points to is where it enters the tank and is on the inside and the blue arrow looks like the pipes to the fuel outlet.

 

So the fuel tank on these is a lot more complicated than I thought. And I'm wondering how bad this is on the inside and especially the filter as I guess it has never been changed or cleaned. So the first thing after the tank has been emptied is to try to get it out.

Is the fuel tank strainer pictured above not a different part to the tank drain plug you pictured earlier? The strainers have an external threaded hose connection  leading to the engines injection pump. The pic of the internal (red and blue arrows diagram) could be baffles for the guaze in tank strainer.

EDIT. Appears to be two different types of in-tank strainers for old mercs. One with an external connection, one without.

[Dyslexic Viking]

8 hours ago, Nullzwei said:

And is this one I seem to have. At least the part on the outside of the tank that I can see is similar.

[Dyslexic Viking]

The diesel leak seems to come from the drain plug / coarse filter thing as talked about earlier.

So had to empty the fuel tank. Last time I did this via the outlet hose on the fuel tank I got my face the whole me and half the garage full of diesel this time I chose the intelligent way and this worked much better.

So the next thing is to get that drain screw thing out will do that when I have parts.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Got the parts to fix the fuel leak on the fuel tank.

I ordered the whole filter/drainscrew as it wasn't expensive and it came with a new o ring.

 

Then it was time to take out the old one and it came out easily almost too easily, and the o ring on this one is rock hard, this one is also fully made of plastic while much of the new one is made of metal so glad I bought a new one.

 

And the new one was then installed in the fuel tank.

 

I then pumped in a few liters of diesel via the return line and will monitor whether this leaks.

I have also collected all the parts I think I need for the conversion to W115/W123 water pump so I will start on that soon. I'm just waiting for one more part first which will either be the ebay find of the year or the disappointment of the year, will come back more on that when it has arrived.

[JMotor]

Fingers crossed that's it for the fuel leak now.

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

And it looks like the fuel leak is now fixed. It's dry so pumped in another 25 liters of diesel and is still dry so is looking promising this.

[Remspoor]

That filter is much larger than I had imagined.

[Dyslexic Viking]

The package I've been waiting for arrived today. The radiator in this one is not good and is full of old repairs to the point I think it's not fixable so it needed a replacement.

But no one sells a new radiator for these, but I've been checking ebay on and off for a year now and suddenly an ad appears for a small batch of new aluminum radiators for these and seller had good feedback and so did the radiators they sell so I took the chance and ordered one.

So this is what arrived today and the impression is good, it looks well made and fits in the car well.

 

I have also changed to the newer water pump which is from W115/W123 and it fit well the only problem is that the fan to it sticks out too far which can be seen in the picture bellow. So the original spacer between fan and water pump must either be shortened or replaced.

 

There is also a small gap between the new radiator and body that should probaly be sealed, not sure how to do that. And should probably stick something soft on the sides of the radiator, but not sure what.

 

So I have some challenges to solve to make this work.

[Dyslexic Viking]

And it looks like the fan problem is solved. W114 is 6 cylinder with the same water pump and fan, so has a shorter fan spacer, so have found one of these and ordered it.

[Justwatching]

Provided the radiator is mounted securely, I wouldn't worry about that small gap. I doubt it will make any difference. 

If you do pack anything in there, make sure it's not flammable! 

[somewhatfoolish]

It's an engine bay, it's filled with inflammable things? Foam rubber or foam plastic will prevent vibration if the radiator is not firmly held in place.

[junkyarddog]

I'd be inclined to give the top tank on the radiator a coat of satin black.

 

[Justwatching]

4 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

It's an engine bay, it's filled with inflammable things? Foam rubber or foam plastic will prevent vibration if the radiator is not firmly held in place.

In the engine bay vs in direct contact with something really hot. Kinda different. Try routing your wiring loom across the exhaust manifold and find out. 

[hairnet]

yay merc fixes

did you service the vivaro of doom yet?

[Dyslexic Viking]

6 hours ago, hairnet said:

did you service the vivaro of doom yet?

It has gone to the baler and is dead.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I've noticed that not everyone likes the new radiator and I'm not very happy with the appearance of it either and it really stands out in the car. I can paint it black the problem with that is that after research I done I need special paint which is really toxic and has to be done outdoors which won't be possible until May at the earliest. So I just have to live with it as it is.

Not everything done with this will be perfect but I'm trying my best to keep it on the road. I don't have the skills and money to make everything perfect but I am trying to do the best I can.

This is not as I have said before a good one of these it is tired and is a patchwork of old repairs and bodges. And when I looked at the car for the first time all instincts said run away and since it had been unsold for 1.5 years then others had probably done it but it needed to be saved so i bought it.

So with these things in mind, I can live with the fact that not everything is quite as I would like. But the car still exists and is on the road and that is the most important thing.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I think I've now got the last parts so I can get the cooling system together, if all goes according to plan I'll start on that tomorrow.

And I have finally found a workshop manual for these in a understandable language.

 

And 3 out of 4 wheel bearings have slack in them and both at the front, which are the ones I am most concerned about. And now I can finally see how brakes, wheel bearings, etc. are put together. And the front wheel bearings are not in the brake drum as I thought but in the hub.

 

And strangely the bearings and the hub are not attached as expected with a nut but with a clamp of all strange things something I have not seen before. See middle picture on the left.

 

And rear wheel bearings do not seem easy to change as they need special tools and have spesial nuts in some places. So the wheel bearings on this one are definitely beyond me so just have to drive until they fail completely and hope someone can fix it.

And I'm starting to understand that these cars have some special things with them and need some special tools,  even the engine oil drain plug needs one which I find strange for a car aimed at the taxi industry.

[junkyarddog]

That is a nut,but rather than be staked or held in position with a split pin,it has a pinch bolt.

It's a really nice bit of engineering.

[spike60]

I think my 2007 E320 has the same type of set up, very straightforward.

[hairnet]

SLs have those to hold it on

no problem

 

[Mr Pastry]

Don't know what the book says, but a small amount of play is usually acceptable in taper roller bearings and the nut with clamp screw makes it easy to adjust.

[Dyslexic Viking]

The local garage that did the last MOT also said that these bearings can have some play in them. So won't do anything until it becomes necessary.

[junkyarddog]

If they aren't noisy or feeling rough to turn then leave well enough alone.

[bangernomics]

My old peugeot J5 failed the test on a front bearing play. I just packed with grease and did the nut back up. They are spaced with a shim and are not taper roller so the shim does the endfloat.

Maybe yours is the same if no noise?

[Dyslexic Viking]

The Mercedes W114 fan spacer has arrived.

 

And with that, the fan is moved about 30mm backwards towards the engine and the fan is now about where the old fan was before.

 

The next thing was to install the new radiator. Got it in place but it's a little crooked but can't get it better, the car could have been hit in the front at a point for all I know but it's in.

 

Then it was time to block off the heater. Did it by modifying the hose plugs underneath and then pressing them into the hoses and holding them in place with a hose clamp.

 

Then it was time to fill up with coolant, had a small leak but that stopped by tightening a hose clamp and after that it was leak free,  hope that continues.

Then it's just a matter of watching for leaks and if there aren't any, the cooling system will hopefully now be good for many years to come.