stupidity 1964 Volvo 122S - Amazonian rustforest. Ok. I'm sorry. I washed it.

[juular]

1 hour ago, mk2_craig said:

It's crispy!! And you reckoned the donor was worse?

Just a bit..

 

[barrett]

Those outer sills on the donor looked alright though!!

This is just flippin' great work anyway. Not much I can say except keep plugging away at it, it's really pushing all my vicarious shite-welding buttons at the mo and I'm getting a lot of satisfaction seeing that new metal go in. Once you've done the sills how much more hot glue action dya reckon it'll need?

[juular]

11 hours ago, barrett said:

Those outer sills on the donor looked alright though!!

This is just flippin' great work anyway. Not much I can say except keep plugging away at it, it's really pushing all my vicarious shite-welding buttons at the mo and I'm getting a lot of satisfaction seeing that new metal go in. Once you've done the sills how much more hot glue action dya reckon it'll need?

They were pretty knackered on closer inspection, most of the lower seam was missing and you could poke holes in them with your fingers. 

Once the sills are done, I have a few floor patches to do in the back, then the rear arches are getting replaced. The inners I'll build up with bits and pieces since you won't see them, but I'm getting panels for the outers.

Not a huge amount in the scheme of things.

[juular]

11 hours ago, Talbot said:

As much as I very much like the XUD, it's not very well suited to RWD applications.

A Mercedes OM605 with manual gearbox from a rotten C250 Turbodiesel though....

Is there a reason it's not that well suited to RWD? Apart from the lack of bolt-on gearboxes (I wanted to keep the volvo box anyway).

I wouldn't say no to some 5 cylinder clatter, though.

[Talbot]

1 hour ago, juular said:

Is there a reason it's not that well suited to RWD? Apart from the lack of bolt-on gearboxes (I wanted to keep the volvo box anyway).

There's a few issues.  Not least is the angle of lean the engine needs when installed, which can lead to quite significant weight difference across the front.  The sump design is better as a FWD too, as I understand it can suffer oil starvation in a RWD application.  Some baffles welded into the sump may help on that though.  It is also possible to modify the sump oil pick up and stand the engine up somewhat, but if you do that it's then a surprisingly tall engine.

Also the plumbing is a pain:  The top radiator hose ends up at the bulkhead rather than at the front of the car, and all the heater hose connections are in the wrong place meaning the underbonnet is full of spaghetti pipework.

The worse issue is getting the engine mounted, which can be a complete mare as where you would traditionally have the engine mounts on a longitudinal engine, there is very little to attach to on an XUD.  Where the engine wants to mount (at the cambelt end) there is usually a radiator in the way, so you have to get quite clever with fabrication to make it fit.

An engine that is already designed longitudinal is "drop in" by comparison.

[juular]

18 minutes ago, Talbot said:

There's a few issues.  Not least is the angle of lean the engine needs when installed, which can lead to quite significant weight difference across the front.  The sump design is better as a FWD too, as I understand it can suffer oil starvation in a RWD application.  Some baffles welded into the sump may help on that though.  It is also possible to modify the sump oil pick up and stand the engine up somewhat, but if you do that it's then a surprisingly tall engine.

Also the plumbing is a pain:  The top radiator hose ends up at the bulkhead rather than at the front of the car, and all the heater hose connections are in the wrong place meaning the underbonnet is full of spaghetti pipework.

The worse issue is getting the engine mounted, which can be a complete mare as where you would traditionally have the engine mounts on a longitudinal engine, there is very little to attach to on an XUD.  Where the engine wants to mount (at the cambelt end) there is usually a radiator in the way, so you have to get quite clever with fabrication to make it fit.

An engine that is already designed longitudinal is "drop in" by comparison.

Fair points.

I was considering picking apart an LDV pilot for engine mounts, sump and ideas on longitudinal mounting. They are becoming increasingly hard to come by though.

[Talbot]

Looking at this image:

Which is an XUD9A removed from an LDV Pilot, it looks like it has a very different sump, with engine mountings as part of it.  I assume there's a similar one around the other side.

The thermostat housing is clearly different for the hose layout (but i'll bet it still gets in the way) and I've no doubt the pipework on this is different from the usual FWD arrangement to get the heater hoses somewhere sensible.

Other obvious differences are the cambelt covers due to the lack of the engine mount there, and it looks like the Auxilliaries are a bit different too.

It's really quite different from one in a FWD arrangement.  I think you would need one.  Or the engine from a FSO Caro Diesel.  If there are any left!

[Dyslexic Viking]

Wouldn't a VW 1.9 diesel also be a possibility? If I'm not wrong, they have a large aftermarket with parts so they can be adapted to anything?

[juular]

9 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Wouldn't a VW 1.9 diesel also be a possibility? If I'm not wrong, they have a large aftermarket with parts so they can be adapted to anything?

I'd like a fully mechanical setup if possible. I'm sure the 1.9s still have partial electronic control?

[Zelandeth]

14 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Looking at this image:

Which is an XUD9A removed from an LDV Pilot, it looks like it has a very different sump, with engine mountings as part of it.  I assume there's a similar one around the other side.

The thermostat housing is clearly different for the hose layout (but i'll bet it still gets in the way) and I've no doubt the pipework on this is different from the usual FWD arrangement to get the heater hoses somewhere sensible.

Other obvious differences are the cambelt covers due to the lack of the engine mount there, and it looks like the Auxilliaries are a bit different too.

It's really quite different from one in a FWD arrangement.  I think you would need one.  Or the engine from a FSO Caro Diesel.  If there are any left!

There was a conversion (albeit "officially" supported as I recall) which crammed them into the Lada Niva too.  Given how cramped an engine bay that is to start with and there's very little room underneath because of the front diff, that must have been quite a packaging nightmare.

They were never massively common though, so finding a dead one to pillage for parts is likely near impossible at this point.

[Dyslexic Viking]

3 minutes ago, juular said:

I'd like a fully mechanical setup if possible. I'm sure the 1.9s still have partial electronic control?

I don't know what they have earlier versions may have been fully mechanical?

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

7 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

There was a conversion (albeit "officially" supported as I recall) which crammed them into the Lada Niva too.  Given how cramped an engine bay that is to start with and there's very little room underneath because of the front diff, that must have been quite a packaging nightmare.

They were never massively common though, so finding a dead one to pillage for parts is likely near impossible at this point.

Niva with xud engine was common here but that might not help much. But there is one that is sold in parts outside of Drammen Norway now if he wants a road trip?

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=270497998

[juular]

Perhaps I should just go ahead and make myself a 'Doysel Voul-fo'

This is a superb watch by the way, not just for the fact he's so casual about running a petrol engine on diesel while smoking a rollup and speaking in that excellent and mesmerising Swedish accent, but for how beautiful the engine sounds and how professional the conversion looks. What a hero.

[Talbot]

Shove in the OM605 as mentioned earlier, then you can purchase bits from "superturbodiesel" and make it do this:

https://bangshift.com/general-news/videos/6-05-the-mercedes-benz-om605-diesel-yeah-they-can-hustle/

Childish?  Yes.

Will it piss off your neighbour even more?  Yes.

Hilliarious?  All day long.

[dome]

3 hours ago, Talbot said:

Shove in the OM605 as mentioned earlier, then you can purchase bits from "superturbodiesel" and make it do this:

https://bangshift.com/general-news/videos/6-05-the-mercedes-benz-om605-diesel-yeah-they-can-hustle/

Childish?  Yes.

Will it piss off your neighbour even more?  Yes.

Hilliarious?  All day long.

Thank you for joining myself and some of the other Scotoshite contingent in trying to persuade @juular to go down the OM605 route. Tis truly the way forward.

And sideways.

[juular]

25 minutes ago, dome said:

Thank you for joining myself and some of the other Scotoshite contingent in trying to persuade @juular to go down the OM605 route. Tis truly the way forward.

And sideways.

Doesn't the OM605 in the C250TD have ECU control? Or is there a mechanical pump conversion available? It also looks like quite a wide boy, the issue with the Amazon is the steering box and column cutting down the back side of the engine. If anything a short, thin and tall engine seems more suitable.

Wiki:

It uses a Bosch electronically controlled inline injection pump (ERE) except in the W124 where it uses a Bosch mechanically governed inline injection pump (Bosch M pump with RSF governor)

[Talbot]

OM604/5/6 engines are right on the crossover for having fully mechanical or electronically varied mechanical injection.  There are various versions of each, and pumps from the OM601/2/3 engines (which are all fully mechanical) are often able to be moved over to the appropriate engine to make them fully mechanical (EG an OM603 pump bolts onto an OM606, is fully mechanical and can be tweaked* quite a bit.  There are also aftermarket (and exceptionally reliable) standalone controllers for the bosch inline injection pumps.

Also, the width is deceptive.  A lot of that is the inlet fannymould, which is regularly chopped about.  The PAS pump also hangs out a long way, and is very easily re-locatable.  The actual engine is barely any wider than an XUD.

[Jim Bell]

*stands on a chair*

Oh captain my captain, add my name to the list of lads saying OM this mother and drive around like an absolute boss on veg oil laughing at the petrol chumps oh captain my captain.

OM KREW 4 EFIL

[warninglight]

This place sells adaptors to mount both VW and Merc diesels to Volvo gearboxes, I have their VW/M45 kit, it wasn't cheap with the flywheel etc. And the import tax on top but it's easier than making one!

I don't expect an Amazon gearbox would handle much winding up of a TDI though!

https://smt.nu/mercedes-200250290300-diesel.php

[Talbot]

if it went with an OM engine, I'd be inclined to shove the MB gearbox in the ovloV and just do a custom on the propshaft.  Far easier and cheaper than putting in an adaptor plate and turning the 122s gearbox into mixed metals.

[rusty_vw_man]

10 hours ago, juular said:

Perhaps I should just go ahead and make myself a 'Doysel Voul-fo'

This is a superb watch by the way, not just for the fact he's so casual about running a petrol engine on diesel while smoking a rollup and speaking in that excellent and mesmerising Swedish accent, but for how beautiful the engine sounds and how professional the conversion looks. What a hero.

I’ve been following this thread with interest, mainly as I’m a big fan of this sort of crazy chopping away at rust, and top fabrication skills.

However this Swedish chap has put you in the shade I’m afraid - it’s great, amazing piece of work, great execution. Only thing is he doesn’t answer the most pressing question - WHY?! 

[Lacquer Peel]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:53 PM, rusty_vw_man said:

I’ve been following this thread with interest, mainly as I’m a big fan of this sort of crazy chopping away at rust, and top fabrication skills.

However this Swedish chap has put you in the shade I’m afraid - it’s great, amazing piece of work, great execution. Only thing is he doesn’t answer the most pressing question - WHY?! 

Why not?!

[Talbot]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:53 PM, rusty_vw_man said:

Only thing is he doesn’t answer the most pressing question - WHY?! 

I'll be willing to bet there was a comment from someone at some point saying "that's impossible".

"Hold my beer..."

[juular]

It makes sense in a lot of ways, using a knackered 240 as a testbed for an interesting idea.

 Using the original engine rather than finding and fitting a replacement takes a lot of fabrication and tinkering out of the equation, trading that with different and more interesting problems, at least in my view.

I love the fact that it still mostly sounds like a B230, with diesel clatter layered on top.

I do have a spare B18 in my shed...

[juular]

Frustrating weekend due to the weather and a significant motivation drop because Winter Is Coming™

Received a big delivery of parts, with thanks to @Lacquer Peel and @davidfowler2000 for providing ARSE.  (Autoshite Recovery and Shiteshifting Etc).  I now have both centre sills, outer sills, and rear outer arch repair panels ready to go.

One of the panels was provided for free from a fellow Volvo masochist, although it did have a little bit of surface rust which needed cleaning up.  With a going over with white spirit, degreaser, a quick acid bath and a touch up here and there it was perfectly usable. 

I spent a morning punching and drilling this and an outer sill panel for the plug welds, then zingaing up the mating surfaces.

The weather was rubbish so I climbed inside the car and started getting rid of the old sound deadening.

After that, a going over with the big wire wheel proved the soundness of most of the remaining floor.

Well, I did say 'most'.

Y THO?

Floor patches made up.

I still need to bash down the lower parts to fit the profile and weld everything shut, but motivation was decreasing.

In reality this needs a new floorpan section, but this will see it through a little while at least.  The floorpan can be replaced on this side at any point without dismantling half the car, so I'm happy to leave it till it becomes a problem.

Next job was to blow the bloody doors off and start aligning the centre sill.

A fair amount of hacking was required to get rid of old rusty bits and bad welds and allow the new panel to fit.

Finally reached a 'fuck it, that'll do' situation and welded it on.

Surprisingly, the doors still close. Mint.

It's a Volvo I suppose. Even back in 1964 before their safety reputation was a thing, the cars were still over-built.  With the sills and steps hacked to pieces and the car jacked up at an angle, nothing actually moves.

In the process of plug welding, I managed to snap shut a set of mole grips on my hand, resulting in a surprisingly bloody and gory injury. That really was the end of all motivation, I think I need a little break.

At least I still have my Strong Hand, for activities.

[Jim Bell]

It's taken enough blood to sustain itself during hibernation. 

[Dyslexic Viking]

Liked for progress and not the hand.

[captain_70s]

6 hours ago, juular said:

At least I still have my Strong Hand, for activities.

A wank worth having is a wank well earned. Or something.

[juular]

4 hours ago, captain_70s said:

A wank worth having is a wank well earned. Or something.

Something something a wank in a bush is better than something.

[juular]

Nearside sill is just as bad as the other, so the whole lot was chopped off.

Nice rusty layer that had been needlessly added for special bonus points.

 

Chop, hack, etc.

 

Inner sill built back up in stages.

 

 

 

 

Centre sill prepped.

 

Then welded on.

 

 

Remaining welding jobs:

Fill in the floor where it attaches to the inner sills.

Cut off rear arches.

Remove back axle and start cutting out the inner rear aches.

Rebuild the rear arches.

Attach outer sills.

Repair the boot floor.

Repair lower door skins (will probably leave this until well into the future).

After that, it's stripping the underside, painting and seam sealing everything, then on to dismantling and rebuilding the suspension. Then refitting the interior and engine.