I'll get round to it at some point - Bratislava and Back: Things not to do in a mk2 Clio

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, Stinkwheel said:

Fairly sure the diode in the suspension ECU was a common work around many years ago, common in the XM community, that fixed* the things going into sport hard mode all the time (this is from memory when i was really into citroens 20 plus years ago now though, so i may be mis remembering.

Glad you are managing to work through it all though.  I feel like the car sort of deserves it. Also, ive remembered this car had a name my ex gave it. It was called Nestor, after this guy.

 

As it was always just sort of giving a gallic shrug and getting on with things 🤣

I've read about the diode mod too now you mention it, it certainly is/was a thing 

I took mine to citroJim who plugged it into his proper lexia, cleared a decade of codes out of it that hadn't put the dash light on and everything tested fine! (I had some turbo valve issue which he replaced and it was a bit snappier to change afterwards but that was engine and tct related) 

[Stinkwheel]

5 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I've read about the diode mod too now you mention it, it certainly is/was a thing 

I took mine to citroJim who plugged it into his proper lexia, cleared a decade of codes out of it that hadn't put the dash light on and everything tested fine! (I had some turbo valve issue which he replaced and it was a bit snappier to change afterwards but that was engine and tct related) 

Good old citroJim, still about as i understand it but now mainly into AX's etc as bigger stuff is beyond his health im sad to hear.

[wesacosa]

its a Mk2 so will have the Hydroactive II , there are relay clicks when you open doors and boots as it ensure the suspension is in non sport mode, although from memory its not multiple clicks.  Any issues with sport mode not engaging is usually the diodes, as mentioned, or if the center sphere is flat 

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, Stinkwheel said:

Good old citroJim, still about as i understand it but now mainly into AX's etc as bigger stuff is beyond his health im sad to hear.

Ah that's good to hear! Yes he was certainly starting to slow down from what he told me when I was there. But equally that got me under the car and taking the spheres off with his home made removal tool which taught me alot 👌

[beko1987]

 

2 hours ago, wesacosa said:

its a Mk2 so will have the Hydroactive II , there are relay clicks when you open doors and boots as it ensure the suspension is in non sport mode, although from memory its not multiple clicks.  Any issues with sport mode not engaging is usually the diodes, as mentioned, or if the center sphere is flat 

Also bounce test (all coming back now 😂

With the car unlocked, keys out and doors shut after x seconds the suspension will go hard and it shouldn't bounce on a corner. Open a door and listen for the relay click (or an click) and the corners should bounce like 'normal' suspension. All doors boot and maybe bonnet should control it so enjoy having the neighbors wonder wtf your doing in 2 minute bursts as you wait for it all to enter sleep mode on every test 

[Rust Collector]

I’ve been out testing ABS sensors with the good multimeter tonight. Inexplicably, the old one that has been abused works better than the new one from screwfix.

At the ECU, I was reading infinite resistance on the n/s/f sensor and 4,600ohms on the o/s/r.

The target is 2,600ohm… so there may be hope for the rear.

I continuity checked the body wiring on the front sensor.

It was fine. I then checked the resistance of the sensor at the plug. The sensor is dead. I’ve ordered a new one for £18.

The rear was a bastard so no pic, but I did manage to clean up the connectors. That got me this:

which is not good enough. Rear ordered - £40. Shame I couldn’t save it, but it’s not the end of the world.

I had a bash at the wipers again. I lost the wiper arm but down here immediately.

Excellent. Luckily, angrily hitting the arch liner made it reappear on the floor.

The enemy:

I ground those off and reseated the arm in the perfect* position.

Something isn’t right as the wiper strikes the edge of the screen and the scuttle. I’ve moved the scuttle a little and cable tried it and it’s better but still not right. It’s getting filed under good enough, and at some point I’ll fix* it by replacing the arm with another passenger side one.

My final thought for the night was that I don’t think I’ve ever seen the warning lamp for the suspension come on. Or the oil level gauge. Or either info panel below the dash. Or that little info panel in the dash.

I think that will all be coming out for investigation.

 

[beko1987]

Would the bare wiper arm take a gentle clamping in a vice and a few love taps to put a slight kink on it? Or would that then push it off over the bottom trim? 

[Rust Collector]

12 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

Would the bare wiper arm take a gentle clamping in a vice and a few love taps to put a slight kink on it? Or would that then push it off over the bottom trim? 

My first thought was brute force - it's my immediate go to 🤣

The arm is cast and has webbing underneath though so my gut feel was that it would probably crack rather than bend.

[beko1987]

How about the thinner end of the arm? From your photo of the front on view, just a tweak so it sits more 'flat' when parked at the end maybe? 

You'd be bending against the flat though... 

[Rust Collector]

1 hour ago, beko1987 said:

How about the thinner end of the arm? From your photo of the front on view, just a tweak so it sits more 'flat' when parked at the end maybe? 

You'd be bending against the flat though... 

I see what you mean, but yeah trying to bend the 's' shape out of it would be awkward. If I can nab a passenger side arm from somewhere then that'll sort all my woes - the sweep will be perfect* then.

[wesacosa]

17 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

I’ve been out testing ABS sensors with the good multimeter tonight. Inexplicably, the old one that has been abused works better than the new one from screwfix.

At the ECU, I was reading infinite resistance on the n/s/f sensor and 4,600ohms on the o/s/r.

The target is 2,600ohm… so there may be hope for the rear.

I continuity checked the body wiring on the front sensor.

It was fine. I then checked the resistance of the sensor at the plug. The sensor is dead. I’ve ordered a new one for £18.

The rear was a bastard so no pic, but I did manage to clean up the connectors. That got me this:

which is not good enough. Rear ordered - £40. Shame I couldn’t save it, but it’s not the end of the world.

I had a bash at the wipers again. I lost the wiper arm but down here immediately.

Excellent. Luckily, angrily hitting the arch liner made it reappear on the floor.

The enemy:

I ground those off and reseated the arm in the perfect* position.

Something isn’t right as the wiper strikes the edge of the screen and the scuttle. I’ve moved the scuttle a little and cable tried it and it’s better but still not right. It’s getting filed under good enough, and at some point I’ll fix* it by replacing the arm with another passenger side one.

My final thought for the night was that I don’t think I’ve ever seen the warning lamp for the suspension come on. Or the oil level gauge. Or either info panel below the dash. Or that little info panel in the dash.

I think that will all be coming out for investigation.

 

the oil level gauge should measure when you turn ignition on but read zero for the rest of the time.  apparently the suspension light should come on with ignition but if there is a stored fault it won't. maybe another for the blink code

[Stinkwheel]

As wesacoa says above for suspension and oil level.

The info panels have never worked on that car the whole time i've known it (10 years) but i may have a spare one or two in a box somewhere, I'll have a poke about when i get a chance

[Rust Collector]

Yesterday we made the decision to close down a day earlier at work for Christmas this year. That meant today was a free day - result!

Today this turned up:

Even more of a result! That’s the replacement abs sensor for the front of the XM - that was the one that was open circuit.

Best get it swapped out then.

First though, I noticed a pool of green as I jacked up that corner.

I found that the clip holding the return line onto the strut had somehow come undone:

It’s held on by a clip that’s like a CV boot clamp but worse, so it’s got the default treatment for now:

On to the sensor then.

The old one was grotty:

But came out no bother. It’s a replacement part itself, which probably helped.

for anyone doing this who use replacing the original green connector sensors with blue ones, note that you have to shave off one tab from the plug. I didn’t see this mentioned online and initially I thought I’d bought the wrong thing.

I tested the resistance and read the codes from the ECU before swapping the whole thing:

plugging the new sensor in cleared the code for that corner immediately, so I carried on and fitted it properly.

The air gap isn’t right, but I can sort that later with an angle grinder.

The rear sensor looks like a fucker to replace, so I wanted to get the car stripped down ready for the replacement. This is the corner that has continuity but the resistance is out by about a thousand ohms.

I don’t like stripped down cars sat out the front of the house, so I needed to swap the XM with this

luckily it only took 5 minutes to throw the proton back together, and it fired into life no problem.

Then, after reversing the XM into its place, I noticed something odd:

The ABS light has cleared.

Ive tested it on a few ignition cycles and currently it clears without fail.

No idea why, as I’ve not don’t anything else apart from clean the rear sensor connector the other day, but I’ll take it.

Whilst I was fucking around I read the Hydractive ECU codes. The light is definitely blown as it was throwing a code but no light on the dash. This was the code:

The resistance I read on the component was 9ohms, which I also read the same for the front valve which isn’t throwing a code.

Giving either valve 12v with the power probe causes them to actuate, so no idea what’s going on there. That’s a job for after the MOT.

I was really pleased that the car is 99% of the way to being ready for putting in for MOT, so of course the nut immediately dropped off the linkage between the wiper motor and linkage as I tried to video it to show a mate the progress.

That’s tomorrow’s job then.

After that it’ll need a couple of tyres on the front, and I’ll chuck it in for a ticket after Christmas.

[Rod/b]

On 27/11/2023 at 23:43, chodweaver said:

That sort of arrangement is in Chrysler Voyagers too - a thumbwheel that has a potentiometer part to its travel and two switch positions. And it annoys the shit out of me, that they have mixed up a control for instrument brightness with overall control of the courtesy lights, with two troublesome consequences:

1: with a desire for dimmer dash lighting at night and in shit weather, the driver winds the control all the way down, then none of the interior lights come on when a door is opened, and not driver nor passengers can figure out why

2: with a desire for the brightest level of dash lighting, the driver winds the control all the way up, into the second switch position, putting all the interior lights on, and leaves it in this position on exiting the vehicle, so that the eight dome lights stay on after the car is locked and they kill the battery overnight

Two controls that it makes zero sense whatsoever to combine into one...

Same on my F150 - if you hold the + side of the dash lights dimmer for a couple of seconds it turns on all the interior lights and the work light in the bed. There’s no way to just turn on the work light though which I find odd.

[jonathan_dyane]

Some great work here as ever.

You might want to upgrade the cable tie holding on the strut return to a jubilee clip, when I've tried using cable ties it has always continued leaking 

[Rust Collector]

XM update:

I’ve chucked the nut back on the linkage and it’s now good enough. Job done for MOT time and I’ll definitely revisit it later when I can be bothered to sort out the park position 100%

On 26/12/2023 at 09:49, jonathan_dyane said:

Some great work here as ever.

You might want to upgrade the cable tie holding on the strut return to a jubilee clip, when I've tried using cable ties it has always continued leaking 

Cheers for the heads up - it was hard to tell how much pressure the original clamp applied. I will get a jubilee clip on it!

[Rust Collector]

Pontiac update:

The water pump arrived the other day.

The pump is held on by 4 large bolts and 4 small bolts. The new pump comes supplied with 4 small studs. That’s ominous.

Theres definitely coolant leaking out the weep hole though so it needs to come off.

My suspicions were correct and the small bolts are torqued down pretty tightly and bound pretty severely with corrosion. Despite my best efforts, one sheared. That’ll give me something fun to do later then. I then let a second one shear, as I was fucked off and thought if I’m removing one snapped bolt anyway then I may as well do it twice. Fucking exceptional logic.

Seeing as this would likely involve the welder and loud swearing I decided that I’d do some car shuffling to put the Pontiac in a place where neighbours can’t stare at me out the curtains.

I pulled the alternator out to make some space

Out with the old

You wouldn’t believe how much that resisted parting from the engine. A drift on that cast ear eventually got it free.

My secret shame:

Whilst looking for a spanner I dropped, I noticed something flapping around by the cooling fan.

NOT NOW EXHAUST SHIELD! I’ll sort that later. By sort, I mean possibly jubilee clip on or more likely launch into a corner as it has completely dropped off.

I briefly stopped work to go and ride in a tiny train with my family.

Train riding complete, I got home and procrastinated by fitting a dimmer switch in my son’s bedroom. Sadly that didn’t take long, so I had to go back out to the Pontiac.

I had a half hearted bash with mole grips but no dice. Not giving up, I armed myself with the welder and a the remains of a bottle of gin.

Wanker:

Each time I welded a nut on, despite working the remaining stud gently with a spanner, it shears in line with the nut.

The studs are getting shorter and shorter, soon I’ll be at the point of no return…

I’ve welded on the last pair of nuts that I reckon I’ll get on there, and they can sit overnight.

I really didn’t anticipate the Pontiac giving me more grief than the XM.

Wish me luck for the morning!

[Schaefft]

Might be worth getting the blow torch out before snapping it off further. Heating them up and a few strikes with a hammer can knock them lose enough to hopefully come out without further pain.

[Rust Collector]

The space looks bigger than it is in that photo - there’s no room to hit the studs along their axis unfortunately and I’m loath to strike the aluminium casting around them. I was really surprised the heat from the welder didn’t break the bond, it normally it pisses it. The state of the shite on the threads of the other bolts was pretty bad to be fair though, looked like they’d been dredged out the channel. Imperial sizes too so I’ll have to get new taps and dies.

[Schaefft]

Using a 1/2 inch extension held against the studs that you can hammer on might be all you need. Anything that sends a few shocks down them really.

[Rust Collector]

I’ve been out and given everything a shock as best I can with a drift. Still shearing off a few mm at a time sadly.

I’ll keep going (but not today as I’ve got to go and see family) and maybe once the protruding section is gone then I’ll have more luck with welding onto the seized section in the housing.

If not then I’ll have to take a look at 90 degree drill chucks and see if I can drill them out in situ.

[Rust Collector]

The family visit got pushed back slightly so I thought fuck it, it’s time to break something.

Persistence with the welder has begun to pay off.

That’s one out. One left to go.

And let’s not think about how much heat I’ve put into a machined aluminium face that needs to seal watertight.

[Rust Collector]

Could a grown up tell me if this is a bad idea or not?

I’m thinking to weld a large washer onto the small amount of protruding stud, as this should be easy to weld to. I can then build the weld up so that I can put a nut on and weld that to the washer and stud combo.

[Back_For_More]

It'll be the heat cycling that will help...... The contact to the stud itself will still be the same area - you'll get more leverage perhaps. 

The washer idea will at least cycle the extreme temperature more often - but you're putting a larger amount of heat through the casting...... How thick/thin is it? 

You could always sand the facing flat on a glass surface a la Dave-numbers 

[RoverFolkUs]

5 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

Could a grown up tell me if this is a bad idea or not?

I’m thinking to weld a large washer onto the small amount of protruding stud, as this should be easy to weld to. I can then build the weld up so that I can put a nut on and weld that to the washer and stud combo.

That's probably not a bad idea in my books!

What *sometimes* works is if you cut a vertical slit into it and then try to gently undo it with a flat head bit in a 1/4 drive ratchet. 

Unfortunately it doesn't look like you've got as much to play with there as I'd like when trying that method

If you go as far as drilling into it, to save having to create new threads afterwards I would try one of those screw extractor bits as one final attempt of extracting it

[kevins]

I'd try heating the casting up with something like a small blowlamp (I have a chefs one)  you might find it will then unscrew with a pair of pliers.

[Mr Pastry]

Surely that is a separate casting - how difficult is it to unbolt it from the block?

[Rust Collector]

I couldn’t leave it alone earlier so I did have a go with just a nut again earlier. No dice - this time it’s lack of penetration.

 @Back_For_More @RoverFolkUs yeah that was my thought, should be able to get some good penetration on the stud by blasting it with the washer around it so that I’m not worried about hitting the aluminium. Added bonus of heat cycling as you say.

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I would try one of those screw extractor bits as one final attempt of extracting it

Those things give me The Fear, big time. I think they’ve shattered every time I’ve used one and they’re wankers to drill out.

2 hours ago, kevins said:

I'd try heating the casting up with something like a small blowlamp (I have a chefs one)  you might find it will then unscrew with a pair of pliers.

I think there’s a propane torch in the garage somewhere so I’m thinking to get some heat into the stud before welding it next. Then let it cool and blast the casting with some heat before giving it a go at undoing.

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Surely that is a separate casting - how difficult is it to unbolt it from the block?

I’m not 100% sure but it’s gone through my mind. It’s one of the nuclear options if the welder doesn’t bear fruit tomorrow.

[grogee]

Have you tried swearing at it? 

Seriously I had similar japes with my Maestro exhaust manifold studs and ended up drilling them. Although with hindsight a welder probably would have been the best approach. I think it's a perfect storm of rust expansion and aluminium corrosion. 

Is there any room to drill and tap to slightly larger metric size? 

[Rust Collector]

58 minutes ago, grogee said:

Have you tried swearing at it? 

Seriously I had similar japes with my Maestro exhaust manifold studs and ended up drilling them. Although with hindsight a welder probably would have been the best approach. I think it's a perfect storm of rust expansion and aluminium corrosion. 

Is there any room to drill and tap to slightly larger metric size? 

Don’t worry, I tell it how much of a cunt it is every time it doesn’t come out 😂

If I can get decent penetration into the bolt then I reckon it’ll either come out now that most of the stud that could twist/flex has snapped off, or it will snap flush with the block.

Along with decades of galvanic corrosion (the pump has a manufacture stamp of 1996 on it) there’s also a load of RTV in the threads for good measure.

I reckon there’s space to use a 90 degree chuck but not sure how conducive that will be to drilling accurately* and not more on the piss than normal.

The current bolts are something approaching M6 size, I’m sure there’s enough material in the casting to go up to M7 or M8 if I drill it and tap it.

If you were really up shit creek then I reckon you could drill out the back of the casting and use a nut and bolt on it.