Americans and oil changes..

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

Aren’t American tyres supposed to be rock hard compared to European ones? I read a while back that longevity is valued way above grip.

Yes, American summer tires are very hard. In the height of summer here they stick well to the highway, figure that the road surface can easily get to 80°C on a hot day here. 

UK temperature spec grippy tires (that's what the ABC ratings are about) would start to get all tacky sticky on concrete at that temperature too. A set like that, in summer here would last maybe a thousand miles at best.

At $225 a corner, I would rather have them last a little longer.

[face]

1 hour ago, HMC said:

“Dino oil”  (what is that?)

Non-synthetic I presume.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, HMC said:

“Dino oil”  (what is that?)

Made from crushed dinosaurs. 

[PhilA]

Yeah, mineral oil versus synthetic.

As the joke goes, filling up your fuel tank with liquid dinosaurs.

Same goes for the oil pan.

[wuvvum]

On 1/20/2021 at 7:44 PM, SiC said:

The Transit in the USA has either a 3.7 V6 (275bhp) or a 3.5t Ecoboost V6 (310bhp). Wish we got them here! 

I think it's a good thing we don't.  I'd imagine every time you put your foot down in the Ecoboost version the chassis ties itself in a knot.

[sierraman]

4 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I think it's a good thing we don't.  I'd imagine every time you put your foot down in the Ecoboost version the chassis ties itself in a knot.

They’re driven in a lethal enough manner with a 2.0 diesel in them, you can imagine mating a 310 Bhp engine to it would result in some fairly furious driving. 

[Wilko220]

57 minutes ago, sierraman said:

They’re driven in a lethal enough manner with a 2.0 diesel in them, you can imagine mating a 310 Bhp engine to it would result in some fairly furious driving. 

Every DHL driver around would be going like this between drops

 

https://fb.watch/3aTzxXhl3l/ 

 

[Ian_Fearn]

6 hours ago, PhilA said:

Yes, American summer tires are very hard. In the height of summer here they stick well to the highway, figure that the road surface can easily get to 80°C on a hot day here. 

UK temperature spec grippy tires (that's what the ABC ratings are about) would start to get all tacky sticky on concrete at that temperature too. A set like that, in summer here would last maybe a thousand miles at best.

At $225 a corner, I would rather have them last a little longer.

I spent my career* working at a well known aircraft engine manufacturer. About 15 years ago they opened an outdoor test facility in Mississippi. Engines would be shipped by sea to Charleston SC in a transportation stand on a trailer specially designed for it. These trailers were actually designed to transport engines between Derby and Hucknall near Nottingham.

Of course as soon as they got on the American highway they blew out every single tire and replacements had to be shipped in.

[vaughant]

On 1/18/2021 at 11:11 PM, SiC said:

Most dealers in Europe suck it out the dipstick. You get the majority of the oil out when doing it tbh. Possibly more than through the sump plug, depending the shape of the pan. 

I've started doing this and it was a bit of a revelation. 

I use a cheapo electric pump I bought from Lidl and will say I got nearly 1/2 a litre more out with next to no mess, I'd not say in anyway its a worse way of doing it. 

Oil looked cleaner on the dipstick coming back out as well. 

Each to their own but its the way forward for me. 

[Bren]

Americans will take their vehicles three or four times around the clock. They will also happily drive around in something that has the structural integrity of a ryvita. Wages and the cost of a replacement vehicle mean that bangernomics is a way of life. They need to last.

Geography also plays a part. In 1996 I went to Canada. I picked up a ford contour in Edmonton - their mondeo, four pot with auto. Driving through the rockies meant using the kickdown very regularly - the poor engine was working harder than Esther Rantzen's toothbrush. Being fastidious ( and not wanting a breakdown) I had to put a litre of oil in the engine before I got to Vancouver.

I am not sure how long the poor engine would last subjected to that kind of use. A V8 on the other hand...

[PhilA]

And therein lies the big engine/frequent oil change mentality.

[Bitzer]

FFS, Italians from Alto Adige are happy with 4x4 Pandas.

[PhilA]

19 minutes ago, Bitzer said:

FFS, Italians from Alto Adige are happy with 4x4 Pandas.

Only because their government taxed them into that size car.

[hairnet]

21 hours ago, PhilA said:

We also have many many many open, desolate miles where you also don't want to be listening to a 4-pot wailing its life away, either.

 

Phil

no dis ma 4 pot

[Bitzer]

11 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Only because their government taxed them into that size car.

Not really.

 

[sierraman]

3 hours ago, vaughant said:

I've started doing this and it was a bit of a revelation. 

I use a cheapo electric pump I bought from Lidl and will say I got nearly 1/2 a litre more out with next to no mess, I'd not say in anyway its a worse way of doing it. 

Oil looked cleaner on the dipstick coming back out as well. 

Each to their own but its the way forward for me. 

Some engines it’s recommended you don’t use the vacuum method, notably Ford forbid it with the 1.6 TDCI. 

[wuvvum]

58 minutes ago, Bitzer said:

FFS, Italians from Alto Adige are happy with 4x4 Pandas.

Not sure a Panda 4x4 would be too happy climbing a mountain with four Americans on board mind.

[1970mgb]

10 hours ago, PhilA said:

That's why you get big engine. Slow engine at high speed is a quiet engine at high speed.

My Jeep you can't hear unless you plant the pedal in the carpet.

The Challenger is only noisy if you start to press on, at cruise you can hold a quiet conversation.

Ford do it wrong.

I'm someone who likes a V8 burble when you get on it, and a quiet engine otherwise.

I think the issue is that the Mustang GT has to keep its "sports car"(really pony car) reputation alive and the exhaust even in tame mode is loud.

A lot of the modern muscle/pony cars do have all the valves and things in the exhaust so that you can make them loud if you want to. A good friend has a '16 Challenger S/RT, which IIRC is sort of kind of a Hellcat without the supercharger. Driving it sane, it's has just enough burble to let you know it's there, but is a pleasant 70mph+ highway cruiser. Hit the "fun" button(Sport mode) and it lets out a ferocious growl and seems mad if you don't have your foot to the floor. When he first got it, he told me that I "needed" to come by and drive it. He took me about 10 miles up the road, burning out and fishtailing as he pulled out of the neighborhood and then proceeding to drive like a maniac. He pulled off and I drove it back. As we were headed down the road, I was going 55, and he said "I want you to put your foot in it and see how fast it hits 100". I stopped at 99 so that I could honestly tell my wife I hadn't hit a 3 digit speed on this little 2 lane country road.

[PhilA]

Yeah, that's the engine in mine. It's pleasant enough to drive on the highway, even if the suspension is a little harsh.

Best thing is they put the cylinder deactivation on it, the 6.4 didn't used to have it.

[Rod/b]

I had the Charger R/T with the 5.7 Hemi, and it had that cylinder deactivation thing on it. Was slightly underwhelmed by the mpgs on a run but as someone pointed out its still running as a 2.9 with one bank ‘off’ and lugging round a fairly heavy car. Great engine though.

The 5.0 Coyote in my F150 is a great engine too, runs at about 1500 rpm at highway speeds. God knows how people run Roush or Flowmaster open pipes on them as dailies though, i’d have a permanent migraine. 

[Sham]

Europeans and the Japanese have caught on to the low rpm at cruise thing too - which makes the world of difference to comfort on long journeys.

Both the Vitaras 1 litre 3 pot petrol 6 speed auto and the Skoda's 1.6 diseasel 5 speed manual run at at around 2k rpm on a motorway - in near silence - iirc, the Suzuki sits at 2200 with the Skoda imperceptibly just above 2k.

Get the gearing right, and a small engine can cruise like a big one. Both have the torque for hilly terrain, but I wouldn't want to try proper mountains too often.

 

[SiC]

Modern European cars are becoming more and more auto gearboxed. So with 7-10 gears in the box, it's easy to have super low revs when at cruise. This helps with emissions too, which ofc is a big factor nowadays. Super quick changing boxes means that you can instantly get into the power range when the throttle is poked. Also many decades of refinement in turbo charging means little engines have decent reliable power and hardly any, to no lag. Plus that turbo gives you the low down torque (both in petrol and diesel) that allows you to easily cruise continuously at low revs. 

[Wilko220]

11 hours ago, wuvvum said:

Not sure a Panda 4x4 would be too happy climbing a mountain with four Americans on board mind.

While on holiday in France some years ago, I drove up Mont Ventoux in a 1-litre Renault Clio without incident. Admittedly, I didn’t have four Americans on board but the car never gave me any cause for worry.

I think people all over the world are probably often encouraged to believe they “need” a much bigger, more powerful or more capable car than they actually do - that’s why there are so many Land Rover Discoveries doing the school run in provincial Britain.

[wuvvum]

2 minutes ago, Wilko220 said:

While on holiday in France some years ago, I drove up Mont Ventoux in a 1-litre Renault Clio without incident. Admittedly, I didn’t have four Americans on board

I think that last sentence might be key...

[1970mgb]

The whole low RPM cruising thing has been a preferred American practice for a long time.

Even in the worst emission crippled days of a small block 350 having 150hp, you still had a nice flat 2K-4K or so torque curve. Once you'd hit 70+ and dropped into overdrive, you could run all day at say 2000 to 2500 rpms and have a quiet, smooth running car complete with soft cushy suspension.

Even today, Americans new to an MGB are often terrified to get the car up to 70 because they're afraid they're going to blow the engine running 4K. It DOES make a long trip a lot nicer when you can flip a switch and drop it to 3200rpms, but of course most US ones don't have overdrive. Still, though, the engines are happy to run hours at 4K, it's just what we're use to. I think my Lincoln does around 1800 at 70, and doesn't hit 3K going north of 90.

[Zelandeth]

16 minutes ago, 1970mgb said:

The whole low RPM cruising thing has been a preferred American practice for a long time.

Even in the worst emission crippled days of a small block 350 having 150hp, you still had a nice flat 2K-4K or so torque curve. Once you'd hit 70+ and dropped into overdrive, you could run all day at say 2000 to 2500 rpms and have a quiet, smooth running car complete with soft cushy suspension.

Even today, Americans new to an MGB are often terrified to get the car up to 70 because they're afraid they're going to blow the engine running 4K. It DOES make a long trip a lot nicer when you can flip a switch and drop it to 3200rpms, but of course most US ones don't have overdrive. Still, though, the engines are happy to run hours at 4K, it's just what we're use to. I think my Lincoln does around 1800 at 70, and doesn't hit 3K going north of 90.

This is the one main gripe I have about my Xantia.  It really needs a 6th gear or far, far taller 5th.  70 is around 3500 rpm and you can hear the engine drone - partially because of how creepily quiet the car is otherwise.  It's got more than enough torque/power to handle another gear.  Would make the world of difference to comfort when cruising, and probably really help economy.  She only manages 35mpg even on a motorway run, which ain't great for a 2.0 car with decent aerodynamic properties.

[Barry Cade]

Another thing I've been made aware of listening to American car stuff is that some parts of the States is a mile above sea level, which drops power by quite  lot, especially with the crappy  low octane fuel. I've become quite addicted to the "Under the hood show" phone in .

[1970mgb]

2 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

Another thing I've been made aware of listening to American car stuff is that some parts of the States is a mile above sea level, which drops power by quite  lot, especially with the crappy  low octane fuel. I've become quite addicted to the "Under the hood show" phone in .

You have a wide range of conditions in America, from below sea level to places miles high and in-between, plus places where there's always snow on the ground from November to April and places that have never seen it.

On the whole, I don't think it's fair to universally say "crappy low octane fuel." The numbers LOOK different than in the UK/EU because you all only designate fuel by the RON and we use the RON/MON average(called the AKI, anti-knock index). You can't DIRECTLY convert them, but the rule of thumb is that the RON will be 4-6 points higher than the AKI. For a given fuel, there's usually a 10-12 point difference between RON and MON.

Consequently, what you all have as 97 RON corresponds to 91-93 AKI. You'd have to go out of your way to find a station that does NOT have fuel of that quality,  generally sold as "Premium unleaded." With that said, the exact value can vary.  Here in the People's Republic of Illinois, the "Casey's General Store" up the corner from me has 91, while I can go down the road and get 93 octane Shell V-Power. Back when I lived in Kentucky, most stations had 93, and budget stations typically had 92.

Of course, your 95 RON would correspond roughly to our mid-grade 89 AKI gas, which is better than standard 87AKI here.

It's difficult to find higher than 93 octane here, but it does exist. There's one station, I think a Sunoco around here, that sells 96 street-legal.

The best selection I can remember seeing was in Bowling Green, Kentucky quite literally just about a block away from the Corvette Factory(where, BTW, in normal times you can actually take delivery of your new Corvette). Several of the pumps, in addition to 87/89/93 also had 96 and 99 unleaded and then 110 leaded. The leaded was padlocked and under the big, bold "NOT STREET LEGAL" marking stated "Attend must dispense. Can only be dispensed into approved container or vehicle on trailer.'

Many cars now, especially high compression, high performance engines specify 91 minimum.

As a side note, too, Denver does have an elevation of 1 mile high or greater. There, and in other parts of Colorado, they sell 85 AKI gas. It's completely safe for cars specifying 87 when at that altitude, but if you want to go down the mountain you'd best make sure you have 87 or better in your car.

[Barry Cade]

Brilliant! Thats the sort of info that helps me out. Thank you!  Now can you explain titles, and why not having a title is a huge deal in some states? And why Americans donate their cars when they're at the end of their lives for tax purposes?

[Sham]

Just imagine having to faff around at pumps wondering what fuel to buy.

Normal or super unleaded is enough choice, thanks.