The grumpy thread

[Guest]

Made the discovery today that on my newly-evaluated (reduced) pay that I'm on the exact same pay grade as a "Toilet Attendant".I've spent about a quarter of my life learning legislation, perfecting my letter-writing and generally being responsible for the recovery of millions of quid, a lot of it hard-fought. A miserable and hateful job.Now I get the same money as the bloke who changes the bogroll and soap in a grotty school. What's the point in trying?

[Tayne]

.

[pogweasel]

Or transferring to the janitorial dept.

[Rusty Pelican]

Made the discovery today that on my newly-evaluated (reduced) pay that I'm on the exact same pay grade as a "Toilet Attendant".I've spent about a quarter of my life learning legislation, perfecting my letter-writing and generally being responsible for the recovery of millions of quid, a lot of it hard-fought. A miserable and hateful job.Now I get the same money as the bloke who changes the bogroll and soap in a grotty school. What's the point in trying?

Thats just shit Hirst , my pay is less than £6 per hour rewiring electric motors , my mates 19 year old kid gets more than me in a local supermarket , as you say , whats the point in trying

[Guest]

Idea for a sitcom - two fed-up blokes jack in their jobs and become toilet attendants in a third-rate secondary school. Proposed name "Bog Standard". Teaser tagline "W.C. U L8R". Give John Thomson a ring and ask if he's interested. Maybe Mackensie Crook if he doesn't want a fortune for it, I can imagine him being a creepy janitor sort.

[seth]

Hirst. That is rubbish.

[pogweasel]

...with hilarious consequences.

[seth]

Yeah, err I meant the pay thing was rubbish not the subsequent Sit-com potential

[Pillock]

Hmmmm. We've had a nice new "pay structure" (i.e. cut) because they know damn well it's not the market to be job hunting for us. They've bled the place dry of talent too so any competitors shut up shop long ago.I'm now spending £120 a month more on petrol, and earning £8k less. So nearly £10k down per year - FAB!

[Guest]

Dunno about that Seth, John Thomson can brighten up some really dismal stuff but I think a sitcom about toilet attendants would be a bit of a struggle, even with his amusingly mournful-looking face.Cheers for the support though! At the very least, my job situation is a compelling soap of sorts. You never know what's going to happen next, though I went down the bookies earlier and noticed they were taking odds on it.5/1 - Working hours changed to start 5am every day8/1 - Workstation relocated to kitchen worktop12/1 - Workstation relocated to unlit basement storage room15/1 - New job title to include slur and/or obscenity30/1 - Lunchbreaks to be spent face down in a dirty puddle50/1 - Uniform introduced, which includes a spinning bow-tie and "zany" hat100/1 - Pay to be supplied in Zimbabwe dollars

[Lankytim]

Jobs a job nowadays, most if not all people are having a hard time of it. Im lucky to have found agency work driving lorries for Sainsburys which is a piece of piss. It could all end without notice however which is a bit of a worry I suppose. Getting work anywhere is really hard, even getting work stacking shelves at supermarkets or other "menial" types of employment. I recon its just a case of making do with whatever shit your present employer throws at you, wait for the job situation to improve them tell them to ram it.Some may remember the job I applied for a month or so ago. It was for the Highways agency. I know 2 guys who work as trainers for the HA and they vetted my application (I basically cheated), Made sure I ticked all the right boxes and fulfilled the right criteria, I took hours to make sure it was perfect.. well I didnt even get to the interview stage, just a generic "fuck off" letter. Ballsacks.Turns out over 800 people applied for 4 positions, not that its matters. The HA have cancelled all training due to budget cuts, so it seems likely that out of 800 applicants, none will find employment. All worth a try I suppose. On a seperate note, two of my beloved pet rabbits contracted cancer and died within a week of each other (how the fuck did they manage that?) So im pretty gutted. I know rabbits are usually kept by 5 year old girls and not suitable for 30 year old lorry drivers but its still a nasty business burying your beloved pets. R.I.P Phil and Ian.Oh yeah, and to compound my upset state of mind the laptop battery I ordered about a month ago has been delivered from Hong Kong and its the wrong type. If fits but the terminas are back to front. I cant contact the suppllier either. Cock.

[Cavcraft]

Hey Tim, sorry to sound like an ambulance chaser but if you want another bunny (free) pm me mate. Work seems to be a bit grim alround for mosty people these days, bit of a cloud hanging over our place the last couple of months and some potentially bad shit about to go off.I'll just keep taking the dosh until they tell me otherwise, it's not all bad being one of the lowest paid there.

[Pillock]

R.I.P Phil and Ian.

Mitchell and Beale?Sorry. Sad news, cool names though. Farewell, Phil and Ian.

[Lankytim]

Yes, farewell to the carrot munchers. They were named after a couple of mates I left behind when I moved from Brum to Stoke a few years ago.

[M'coli]

It's a bit glib to say "a job's a job" when you've the skills & experience to do a certain job but you have your pay cut to the level of one that doesn't need a great deal of both. It's analagous to having spent your time training for your HGV license, gaining the experience to be a trusted driver but then having your pay cut to the level of the pump-truck agency boys at the warehouse.Hirst, that sucks. What indeed is the point of trying when the rewards that you receive are not equal to the effort that you expend? Who were the shower of c***s that did the re-valorising - Hay?

[Des]

It does seem pretty much the norm to take for granted and underpay good workers, I've seen more than a couple of times where someone excels at what they do, gets pissed off and leaves for an easier job with less responsibility, replaced with 1 then 2 useless bastards and between them the job doesn't get done anymore.

[Guest]

I'd have to double-check as I did know, but I'm 99% sure it is the Hay system. It's based around collecting points for knowledge, responsibilities, skills, etc. You would have thought responsibility for a ton of accounts would outweigh responsibility for some bogroll and soap. Maybe they dish out Andrex and Imperial Leather nowadays.I think it's mostly the wasted time that winds me up - I could have spent years being a completely bone-idle thicko who is clearly well out of their depth in their own job and I'd be in the same position. It's difficult for you to be fired if you behave yourself, are punctual, etc. I've never known anyone be fired for being lousy at their job and I know a hell of a lot who are.The painful thing is watching incredibly untalented people in other departments be promoted up to ridiculous levels just by being in the right place at the right time - it's a complete lottery, largely based on staff turnover. Someone more senior than you leaves to have a kid, so you're essentially placed into their job for convenience and go up a few scales. The job is advertised and various interviews are dished out, but they're only there for audit purposes - the vacancy doesn't really exist for others. I think they do this to avoid the possibility of hiring someone they really don't get on with - better to promote the useless clod who doesn't cause them any grief than risk ending up with a wildcard who might go on long-term sick or something (another game for some - get a job, go off with stress on a flimsy doctors note, continue receiving pay).So anyway, you potter around doing that for a few years, then someone retires so you automatically jump the ladder again and bag yourself another few grand. Whilst you're at it, in this more senior role you get thrust into doing various qualifications for nowt and end up with more letters on the end of your name and become eligible to keep moving up and up. I've seen people who were completely out of their depth as junior office clerks end up near-enough running an office, just because other people have gradually left. They're still utterly useless, but due to other people essentially propping them up and all the internal politics and bureaucracy they can hide behind, it never comes to anything. Not saying all the people who go up are useless, but it's surprising how far up the food chain some brain donors can go.I'd play the game, but if you're not on the gravy train, you might never be. Some people stay in the same jobs for decades thinking their hard work will eventually be noticed, not knowing that even if it is noticed, there's nowhere to slot them in, so they'll just continue to plug away until they retire on near-enough their starting wage. There's the supposed possibility of sideways moves, but does the job actually exist? Gives me headache just thinking about it. I'd write a book about it all, but I'd end up angrily snapping more pens than I can afford to buy.Still, if nowt else it has made me want to become self-employed. That's got to count for something!

[pompei]

I still have nightmares about my Local Authority days. I recall yet another re-organisation costing thousands, leading to the creation of yet another tier of "middle managers" sitting in newly acquired offices holding yet another meeting about nothing of concern.

[Cavcraft]

It's not just the untalented who get promoted, it's quite often the biggest arse lickers too.I'd rather stay on the bottom rung of the ladder all my working life than be some snivelling shithouse who spends all his time licking the boss's marmite motorway.

[Pillock]

A few years ago, people of my level used to get put through Microsoft certifications. It was then found that - SHOCK! - people used to leave the company once they got them.Option 1) - Pay better wagesOption 2) - Offer no meaningful training scheme.Guess which one was rolled out?

[RedSparrow]

Hirst, I know exactly where you are coming from, on all the points you have made, sounds like the local authority I work for. I have some pretty big responsibilities and have the keys to get to some extremely valuable stuff, but as a casual, even though I work pretty much full-time hours, I am on the second lowest hay grade.I have trained as a TESOL teacher now and hope to bugger off to anywhere in Europe as soon as possible.

[pogweasel]

Still, if nowt else it has made me want to become self-employed. That's got to count for something!

HA! That's a lark. Self-employment means flexible working, more free time, more money, doesn't it. No, it doesn't.It means months of fiscal agony whilst you wait for things to get motoring all the while pumping every penny you have into increasingly irritating things, equipment, insurances and such like. Then there's the fact that you may have some quiet bits and then everyone all wants everything all at exactly the same time so you are trying desperately to keep everyone happy and you don't even get time to sleep. Oh and then there's the business bit, which of course you don't really know squit about because you know the actual 'job' bit, endless forms, endless confusion and excruciating conversations with operatives at the HMRC call-centre, doing your taxes, trying to keep things balanced, keeping your staff paid when no-one else is paying you and you actually end up with two weeks with 38p to your name, stroppy clients who don't understand the 'rules' or that I have to abide by certain codes of conduct & regulations. I'd love to go back to 9-5 p.a.y.e., heck, I'd even be prepared to wear a tie if I really had to.

[Rusty Pelican]

Seems to me working for someone else doesnt pay , being self employed doesnt pay , so scrounging off the state must be the way forward then , any other options anyone

[trigger]

Bugger, Someone has just given away a free 1994 Peugeot 205 diesel on my local freecycle as it has a knackered clutch, and it's still MOTed and taxed until May!

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IpswichRe ... sage/83179

 

Mind you if anyone is after bits like doors, seats and headlights for a 1999 Caddy/Polo/Inca van someone local to me has some to give away.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IpswichRe ... sage/83189

[Cavcraft]

Keyboard warriors.

[whitevanman]

Still, if nowt else it has made me want to become self-employed. That's got to count for something!

HA! That's a lark. Self-employment means flexible working, more free time, more money, doesn't it. No, it doesn't.It means months of fiscal agony whilst you wait for things to get motoring all the while pumping every penny you have into increasingly irritating things, equipment, insurances and such like. Then there's the fact that you may have some quiet bits and then everyone all wants everything all at exactly the same time so you are trying desperately to keep everyone happy and you don't even get time to sleep. Oh and then there's the business bit, which of course you don't really know squit about because you know the actual 'job' bit, endless forms, endless confusion and excruciating conversations with operatives at the HMRC call-centre, doing your taxes, trying to keep things balanced, keeping your staff paid when no-one else is paying you and you actually end up with two weeks with 38p to your name, stroppy clients who don't understand the 'rules' or that I have to abide by certain codes of conduct & regulations. I'd love to go back to 9-5 p.a.y.e., heck, I'd even be prepared to wear a tie if I really had to.

Yup, what the pogster said.....I gave up being SE for that very reason, even though I only work part time 3 days a week, 6 months a year now, I probably clear the same money as the last 2 years I was SE......

[Mr Lobster]

Still, if nowt else it has made me want to become self-employed. That's got to count for something!

As Pog says, self employment can be seriously hard work.Mrs L is self employed and does ok with it, plan is that I'll join her at some point.It's a lot more effort, financial commitment and inconvenience being self employed but long term can be worth it. Dealing with tax and vat people is a pain in the arse and you can put in lots and lots of hours. I've heard it said that if you are self employed you only have to work half days - and you can choose which twelve hours you prefer! In reality its often longer than that.

[whitevanman]

Keyboard warriors.

AH.......your favourite people

[55bloke]

Jeezus, all this work related stuff is soooo depressing. I reckon this forum should be compulsory viewing for every HR dept in the land. Some of you may recall the lab I worked at was closed down at the end of last year. I accepted a QA (quality assurance) job on the factory floor as an alternative to redundancy, but I absolutely HATED it! Long hours, hugely stressful, lousy money. Quit after a month and took the redundancy (that was the deal) Have just started a job at another lab, which is hugely overworked, grossly understaffed, and pays pitiful money. The staff are universally pissed off and demotivated. Because I've done lab work before, they seem to assume I need no training, so I've just been chucked in and told to get on with it! I'm not a hugely ambitious person, quite happy to just get on with doing what I know without feeling pressured, undervalued or underpaid. Christ, whatever happened to progress?

[Lankytim]

It's a bit glib to say "a job's a job" when you've the skills & experience to do a certain job but you have your pay cut to the level of one that doesn't need a great deal of both. It's analagous to having spent your time training for your HGV license, gaining the experience to be a trusted driver but then having your pay cut to the level of the pump-truck agency boys at the warehouse.

I agree with what you are saying there, M, but the economic situation has changed, were all playing to a different set of rules. Its bad enough being undervalued, underpaid and pretty much treated like complete shit by your employer but for many the alternative is the dole. I say if you have a job- even a shit one, keep your head down until things improve then find something better. The whole situation sucks, but people have morgages to pay and familes to feed. hence a job is a job.Ive met plenty of university graduates who have worked for years to get highly qualified in something but have had to find work cleaning floors or flipping burgers or something. Its them who I feel sorry for, theyve really had the rug pulled out from underneath them.As for going self employed? It doesnt sound too bad, you can easily pay next to no tax if youre crafty with your outgoings but minimum wage doesnt apply so you can find yourself working 15 hours a day for a tenner.