VW T4 Caravelle - Gen Up Time Pls

[BorniteIdentity]

As much as it guts me, I think our Granvia will be moving on soon.  Getting bits for it is becoming increasingly difficult (the biggest spares seller in the south of England lost his premises and basically chucked everything in a skip) and it's very much in that grey area of not looking new or old - just like we're the fucking Dingles off of Emmerdale Farm.  

Hate me all you like, but am paying proper attention to T4 Caravelles at the moment.  The "scene" - I figure - doesn't have to be a bad thing.  It means there'll always be a market for spares, and always be a market when it's time to sell.  I also really like the image (although no pineapples will be harmed in any transaction).

What do I need to know?  I know they like to rust around wheel arches - and that the turbos are probably a better bet long term than NA.  

For the time being we need 7 seats; that won't always be the case.  At that stage, I've then got a van I can convert to sleeping quarters.

Couple of specifics please.

1. Does the rear bench move for and aft, or is it fixed? The best thing about the Granvia is you can have a big boot or big legroom by moving it back and forwards.
2. Does the rear bench lie flat - aiding tip runs etc blah?
3. What's a decent price for a T4 LWB caravelle that's been looked after? £5k?

Thanks in advance gang.

[Mike D]

I've got a LWB 2.4D Caravelle that I converted into my camper. Good ones are getting a bit more pricey now but 5k should find something tidy. The standard seats in mine didn't slide, they were fixed but could be removed fairly easily. It was a 9 seater. They all folded flat, but over onto themselves rather than backwards.

The long nose ones look better, and a bit more modern imo.

2.5tdi Is what i'd look out for, my 2.4 will barrel along at 70 more than happily once it's wound up, but it's a steady old trip to get there. They do go forever though, i'm on 381k and counting

Rust around sills, sliding door steps (give them a good prod from underneath the van, the factory underseal can hide the crispyness quite well) front arches, rear arches, and windscreen are areas that need checking.

If the engine sounds a bit tappy when running, give the brake pedal a good few pumps to see if it simmers down, they have a cam driven vacuum pump that can become noisy with age - new pump and pushrod will sort the noise if the brake test stops it

 

Check all the coolant hoses, they have a lot, and  most of the caravelles have rear heaters. Some of the hoses are now NLA.

I find mine drives really nicely, and there is a monstrous spares backup. Plus other ones wave at you, and i like that

Mike

 

 

[brownnova]

7 minutes ago, Mike D said:

Plus other ones wave at you, and i like that

This is basically my criteria for car purchase... is it something that the owners of the same model will wave at you in. I’ll be honest my arms are getting tired when I drive the RoffleWin Clio ?

 

Sorry I have nothing to add on T4s... 

[BorniteIdentity]

This is the one I've got half an eye on at the moment.  It's clearly been loved for the last few years with lots spent on suspension and also a turbo conversion.  In an ideal world I'd get something factory, but the guy seems to know what he's doing and it's all been done properly by a garage.  

Not a fan of the wheels, but then I'm middle aged and I should try to like this sort of stuff.  With some tints it'd look monsterous, and I might even have some credibility with my children for the first time in 12 years.

It's on eBay if you want to have a nose.

[Asimo]

1 hour ago, BorniteIdentity said:

 I'm middle aged and I should try to like this sort of stuff. 

Nonsense. The wheels are awful. Trust your judgement!

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The 2.5 TDI lump in the T4 is a brilliant engine, sounds great for a derv and lasts forever if properly serviced. The 2.5 TDI in the T5 however, is a steaming hot turd...

[Mike D]

I personally wouldn't go for that one @BorniteIdentity it sounds like although he's bolted the turbo stuff on the conversion isn't finished. There a quite a lot of differences on the fuelling side - at your budget i'd keep looking for a 2.5tdi.

[Tickman]

6 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

Hate me all you like, but am paying proper attention to T4 Caravelles at the moment

I think this is quite a sensible idea, if something breaks then you should be able to get anything quite quickly.

[dollywobbler]

2.4 non turbo is a delicious, warbling powerplant even if rather light on power. I caught a 1.9 non turbo diesel up in my 2CV on a hill the other day. They are DOG slow.

I've always loved the T4s. Such nice looking things. Without scene appendages anyway...

[barefoot]

I speak from the very heart of the Volkswagen scene.

I am so scene, I have to be scene to be believed. And from here, I can report that T4's are the bargain buy of the whole lot at the mo.

[Dave_Q]

Not sure how big your small people are but worth mentioning that the middle seats on both rear rows are lap belt only.

The rear seats don't slide but they do fold or come out.

If you can stretch a T5 Caravelle may be better, these have slidey seats that you can put in different configurations and the rear folds into a bed, will save some time/money for future camper efforts.

[Matty]

Can't help with the caravelle thing but I had a t4 2.5 td for years as a works van. Lovely to drive and a lovely engine. Just quick enough and a genuinely nice noise. Loved it to bits and don't remember it being in anyway fragile or unreliable. Dont think about the scene thing, its a genuinely nice van. Also dont worry too much about rot. Its a commercial vehicle last produced in 2002/03. You WILL spend a lot of time chasing rot. But at least you own a mini so you will be good at it ?

 

Edit. Had a t5 for 5 years after. Again no problems with reliability (pre dpf) but somehow not as good.

[HMC]

I think the most AS way to go with this is to buy an ex AA one.

[BorniteIdentity]

Having taken advice from the thread I stepped back from the black one. Sold at £4600 which felt like a very good deal - probably the Northern Ireland factor (not a problem for me as my BFF lives there)

My children are 16,11,8 and 4. We really just need the 6 seats. We nearly bought a XL Viano before the Granvia but they’ve all been taxi’d to within a fucking inch of their lives. 

I’n going to stick the Granvia in for an MOT at the point I can do without it (probably late next month) and see what’s what. It’s very easy to make a summer influenced decision, forgetting the other 11.5 months of the year. Come October I might think that a Mercedes R Class is what we need. 

That or a Transit ? 

[Matty]

since 2006 nobody needs a transit ?

[jon.k]

I have a 2.5 tdi t4 and it’s really nice to drive. Pretty quiet and comfy for an old van and it seems well made. We took it 5.5 hours down the motorway on holiday last week and it was just great. Cruise control can be retro fitted to the later ones by buying the correct stalk, which is nice. Unladen, the 2.5 keeps up with most traffic in most situations and can overtake things occasionally. I’ve driven a 1.9 non turbo and that is a little bit less relaxing!
 

Having moved to it from a pug 305 its’s great to know that every pipe, panel, trim clip etc can be bought off the shelf. I know the scene element can be a bit embarrassing but at least there’ll always be a market to sell it on when the time comes.

 

edit: just reread the bit about NLA pipes above... I must have just been lucky!

[wuvvum]

Agree with the above, they're a nice thing to drive - apart from that stupid bastarding gear lever which put my back out after about 10 miles. 

[jon.k]

7 hours ago, wuvvum said:

Agree with the above, they're a nice thing to drive - apart from that stupid bastarding gear lever which put my back out after about 10 miles. 

An extension is only about £5 or £10 and raises the gearstick to where you can actually reach it. Why VW didn't make it 10cm longer is a mystery!

[Dirk Diggler]

These are generally cheaper here; there just isn't the same scene. It wouldn't be unusual to see 1.9/2.4 na diesel in good nick for 2.5k euros. Of course when I look this morning the 1994 1.9d twin slider in the best green that had languished for 6 months at 2k seems to have gone. This one looks lovely, but 5.1k. 2.5Highline but auto. Not too far from me, or Rosslare port. Proper silver TDI as well; the blue TDI is 88bhp, non intercooled

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/vw-t4-caravelle-highline/25425100

[Asimo]

LPG / Petrol*.

5 cylinder & spark ignition for the win!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/van-details/202008152530107?radius=1500&fuel-type=Petrol&advertising-location=at_vans&sort=sponsored-supplied&body-type=Panel Van&postcode=hr14tz&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&make=VOLKSWAGEN&model=TRANSPORTER&page=1

**We had a battered petrol T4 Synchro at work as a hack vehicle, I never drove it, but it sounded marvellous; distant rally-quattro kind of marvellous.

[doug]

This one is on my watch list. That is all I will do though, watch it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-T4-Caravelle-long-nose-2-4-diesel-1996-VW-bus-T1-T2-T3-T25-T5/313170862573

 

[BorniteIdentity]

HUP she goes.

We've considered quite a bit over the last couple of months.  The Multipla was fun, and great for just shooting somewhere and straight back with all four kids - but that doesn't, in peace time, happen very often at all.  

When I think about the tasks the Granvia carried out (admirably) they were either

• All six of us going somewhere for the day with relevant apparel (picnics, beach gear, footballs etc)
• B&Q (Renovating a 1960s house at the moment)
• Tip (see above)

And, since Lockdown 1.0, we've taken up cycling too.

With this in mind, anything smaller is likely to be viewed as a compromise.  

SO, we're looking at T4s.  Wife, who's punky but not scene, really likes them.  I like to wear shorts + weird fish t-shirts/jumpers so I'm already half way to my first pineapple and the kids said they'd not find the idea embarassing.

If anyone knows of a T4 caravaelle (pref Long Nose) then I'd love to hear about it.  I've scoured the usual places and have sent some emails out.  Also, any other things I need to look at with them would be great to know about.

Ta!

Dx

[wuvvum]

Don't get a 1.9D.  They're comically slow.

[HMC]

They did a VR6 too, which presumably does gallons per mile whilst going not that speedily.

[Ian_Fearn]

Crikey me.... An actual post about a VAG van where someone actually wants to buy one?? This place really isn’t what it used to be 😉

Seriously though, having had VWs of this age including vans my experience is that the only redeeming features are that they are easy to fix and parts easily and cheaply available. They are also really hard to find because the VAG scene values things differently to the rest of the us. Which means a completely knackered rust bucket sell for stupid money.

T4s rot like mad, are average to drive and go wrong just as readily as the next van. They are just not worth the price premium unless you want to get stuck in a traffic jam in Newquay every year and fit in. 

With a ‘fleet of excellence’ like yours, Shirley a newer Granvia is the way forward or even a thoroughly rust protected Bongo? 
 

Edit: sorry this didn’t help you find a T4 which I wish you all the best with 😁

[barefoot]

Rubbish, the cool factor makes all that just pale into insignificance.

You'll look BOSS in shorts, stood next to a T4 whether it runs or not.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

If you get one of these make sure you fit one of those black vinyl 'bonnet bras' as they look GREAT*

[Ian_Fearn]

Just now, Mr_Bo11ox said:

If you get one of these make sure you fit one of those black vinyl 'bonnet bras' as they look GREAT*

Ever seen the paint left behind after a summer with one fitted? I believe it’s called the Rat Look.

[BorniteIdentity]

7 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

 

With a ‘fleet of excellence’ like yours, Shirley a newer Granvia is the way forward or even a thoroughly rust protected Bongo? 

They really don't exist.  All Hi-Ace's are minicabbed to within 0.9mm of their life in Birmingham before ending up on a bombsite with an advert that says "CALL FOR INFO".  Parts availability is laughable with Toyota too, even more so with a Grey import.  If I bought another Granvia et al it would be one trivial issue away from being scrapped.

I don't really like Bongos.  Thin and tall - like a slice of cake.  

[Ian_Fearn]

4 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

They really don't exist.  All Hi-Ace's are minicabbed to within 0.9mm of their life in Birmingham before ending up on a bombsite with an advert that says "CALL FOR INFO".  Parts availability is laughable with Toyota too, even more so with a Grey import.  If I bought another Granvia et al it would be one trivial issue away from being scrapped.

I don't really like Bongos.  Thin and tall - like a slice of cake.  

Depending on your annual mileage...... an Elgrand?

Alternatively, there’s one of these dumped at the top of the St Bernard Pass. Ideal car for man with large family.