project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Welding Near Wood

[vulgalour]

Honestly, having this one has really shown how good our car is.  Been a long old day here today and we're still not done sorting through all the stuff that was in the car.  At some point, possibly in the early 90s judging by the labels on the ice cream tubs and biscuit tins things have been put in, the engine was fully dismantled.  Nothing is labelled.  There are a full compliment of push rods, but two are from an obviously different car and several are very wiggly so I imagine that's the cause of the engine being pulled to bits.  That said, whoever dismantled it took the trouble to liberally grease the cylinder bores and bearing faces on the crankshaft so providing I can find enough bits, it's entirely possible the engine can be rebuilt by someone who has a mind to.  That won't be me, obviously, I hate doing engine work.  Apologies for the blurry shot here.

The best find for us was the NOS looking engine mount, a part that was basically unobtanium.  It was very nearly worth buying the whole car just for this part because now we have a spare in the form of the one on the car we can hopefully get the rubber part recast on as a back up, a good idea since apparently these cars like to go through these particular mounts every few years.

All of the plywood inside the car is riddled with woodworm, none of it is salvagable.  The bulk of the solid wood frame on the other hand appears to be unaffected so I might yet be able to liberate a donor sample from the rear corner to help ours out in the future.  We shall see.  It's a mess, it really is, and too far gone to realistically restore.  I mean, you could if you desperately wanted to but it would be a hell of a lot of work to do it and you'd likely need another donor car for some of the missing parts.

Originally the car was black with a green interior.  At some point it's had red seats fitted (which are themselves only fit as donors due to extensive woodworm and general rot) so the interior must have had a rather jolly and festive look at some point in its long life.

The odometer reads 75k-ish and I can believe it.  The sills, what's left of them, have some pop rivetted aluminium repairs.  There's filler flaking off the boot lid. The outriggers have been replaced with some BEEFY box section.

It's also got moss growing on a lot of it.

All that said, there's a wealth of really usable stuff on it for us.  Loads of fixings that are still in good shape that we need, the original wiring is still intact (except for the bits that attach to the engine) which will be a great reference point, and some of the sheet metal looks like it might even be better than some of ours.  All four tyres hold air, or rather, all four inner tubes hold air.  Managed to get 10psi in the front before the inner tubes started to prolaps out through the sidewalls, and 20psi in the rears which made it possible to roll the thing fully back on to the drive.

It's going to be a very busy weekend here just going through what we got out of the car and that's before we've even started on the bodywork removal.  We're also going to investigate whether or not it's possible to get the registration back for it because that would make the chassis useful for someone wanting to build something age appropriate.  It comes with no paperwork, but the plate hasn't been assigned to another vehicle so it's possible it could be resurrected.  That would be a nice bonus, it's not something we're pinning any hopes on at this point.  We very much want to make sure every part possible is rehomed and reused on this donor for our project and others.

[Zelandeth]

5 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Honestly, having this one has really shown how good our car is.  Been a long old day here today and we're still not done sorting through all the stuff that was in the car.  At some point, possibly in the early 90s judging by the labels on the ice cream tubs and biscuit tins things have been put in, the engine was fully dismantled.  Nothing is labelled.  There are a full compliment of push rods, but two are from an obviously different car and several are very wiggly so I imagine that's the cause of the engine being pulled to bits.  That said, whoever dismantled it took the trouble to liberally grease the cylinder bores and bearing faces on the crankshaft so providing I can find enough bits, it's entirely possible the engine can be rebuilt by someone who has a mind to.  That won't be me, obviously, I hate doing engine work.  Apologies for the blurry shot here.

The best find for us was the NOS looking engine mount, a part that was basically unobtanium.  It was very nearly worth buying the whole car just for this part because now we have a spare in the form of the one on the car we can hopefully get the rubber part recast on as a back up, a good idea since apparently these cars like to go through these particular mounts every few years.

All of the plywood inside the car is riddled with woodworm, none of it is salvagable.  The bulk of the solid wood frame on the other hand appears to be unaffected so I might yet be able to liberate a donor sample from the rear corner to help ours out in the future.  We shall see.  It's a mess, it really is, and too far gone to realistically restore.  I mean, you could if you desperately wanted to but it would be a hell of a lot of work to do it and you'd likely need another donor car for some of the missing parts.

Originally the car was black with a green interior.  At some point it's had red seats fitted (which are themselves only fit as donors due to extensive woodworm and general rot) so the interior must have had a rather jolly and festive look at some point in its long life.

The odometer reads 75k-ish and I can believe it.  The sills, what's left of them, have some pop rivetted aluminium repairs.  There's filler flaking off the boot lid. The outriggers have been replaced with some BEEFY box section.

It's also got moss growing on a lot of it.

All that said, there's a wealth of really usable stuff on it for us.  Loads of fixings that are still in good shape that we need, the original wiring is still intact (except for the bits that attach to the engine) which will be a great reference point, and some of the sheet metal looks like it might even be better than some of ours.  All four tyres hold air, or rather, all four inner tubes hold air.  Managed to get 10psi in the front before the inner tubes started to prolaps out through the sidewalls, and 20psi in the rears which made it possible to roll the thing fully back on to the drive.

It's going to be a very busy weekend here just going through what we got out of the car and that's before we've even started on the bodywork removal.  We're also going to investigate whether or not it's possible to get the registration back for it because that would make the chassis useful for someone wanting to build something age appropriate.  It comes with no paperwork, but the plate hasn't been assigned to another vehicle so it's possible it could be resurrected.  That would be a nice bonus, it's not something we're pinning any hopes on at this point.  We very much want to make sure every part possible is rehomed and reused on this donor for our project and others.

Worth seeing if that mob over in Poland that used to be able to reman the bonded rubber top strut assemblies for Xantias could help with the engine mount?  Can't remember their name now for the life of me though... though sure a search or ask on the French Car Forums would dig it up.

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

It's going to be a very busy weekend here just going through what we got out of the car and that's before we've even started on the bodywork removal.  We're also going to investigate whether or not it's possible to get the registration back for it because that would make the chassis useful for someone wanting to build something age appropriate.  It comes with no paperwork, but the plate hasn't been assigned to another vehicle so it's possible it could be resurrected.  That would be a nice bonus, it's not something we're pinning any hopes on at this point.  We very much want to make sure every part possible is rehomed and reused on this donor for our project and others.

with regards to this, you might want to avoid taking the car apart too much, or at least have in such a state that you can put all the doors/panels back on and make it look fairly complete, because its more then likely the DVLA will want photographs of the vehicle

its a Surrey registration mark, no records still exist for that county council sadly

 

so your best bet here if there really is no paperwork like a buff logbook or old MOT certificate, is just send off a V62 and just hope to your preferred deity, that it managed to survive on the road into the mid-late 1970's-early 80's and get computerised, and thus so the DVLA have an archived record of it, as thats the only way your going to be able to get a V5 for it for its current ID, if it came off the road before managing to get computerised then sadly theres not going to be any way to get its registration mark back

however in theory you may be able to register anew, under an Age related mark if you can get a dating letter for it

 

speaking of registration etc, dont happen to have a nice close up shot of the number plate for us me to oggle at?  

 

 

really glad to see in general however that the spears car is working out exactly as you had hoped it would  

[vulgalour]

I've taken photos of the car and the ID tags at the point it's at now, from numerous angles and distances, as recommended elsewhere.  We've got to sort through all the stuff we took out from the inside of the car before we can start dismantling it so at least presently it does look like a whole car.  I wouldn't be surprised if it came off the road in the late 80s or early 90s, the packaging in it suggests that's when the engine was dismantled, so it might have survived into the digitisation of records.

Just like everything else with Lanchester ownership so far, we'll ask and see what happens.  Worst they can do is say no, we've still not lost out, and if they say yes and return a transferable reg well... chaching!

[Angrydicky]

Has this got a trafficator switch or the remains of still present? The internal bakelite, which supports the contacts for the trafficator switch, is broken on mine and despite my best supergluing efforts, I can only get the nearside trafficator to work unless I slot a screwdriver down between the contacts.  Looks the same as mine. I would be interested if it's got a good bakelite in it.

[LightBulbFun]

32 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

I've taken photos of the car and the ID tags at the point it's at now, from numerous angles and distances, as recommended elsewhere.  We've got to sort through all the stuff we took out from the inside of the car before we can start dismantling it so at least presently it does look like a whole car.  I wouldn't be surprised if it came off the road in the late 80s or early 90s, the packaging in it suggests that's when the engine was dismantled, so it might have survived into the digitisation of records.

Just like everything else with Lanchester ownership so far, we'll ask and see what happens.  Worst they can do is say no, we've still not lost out, and if they say yes and return a transferable reg well... chaching!

awesome glad to hear your ahead of the game then  

although looking at its public facing DVLA record, or should I say the lack of one, it more then likely came off the road sometime before 1983, rather then the late 80's or early 90's

the DVLA computerisation/buff-logbook to V5 scheme ran from the 1st of October 1974 to 30th of November 1983, so if a vehicle came off the road before then and the then current keeper never bothered to V5 it, then the DVLA will have no record of it whatsoever

however at some unknown point in time, the DVLA took all its computerised records and anything that had not seen any activity after 1983, was archived off the main system, and to the outside appears as if it never made it onto the DVLA computer system, when in fact it did, and the DVLA do still have these records but they are in an archived form, hence why you get no results when you look up such a vehicle's reg mark, a lot of people dont realise this and incorrectly assume that no result on the check equals no vehicle record, when no there is still a chance they may have something  (IE if a vehicle was say computerised or registered in 1978, but came off the road in 1982, if you where to look it up now you would get no result, even tho it was computerised, its just the record exists elsewhere thats all  ) 

with any luck this will be the case with Lanchester No 2  

 

the reg mark would be transferable in this case, but the vehicle would require a current MOT and be able to move under its own power...

[vulgalour]

Those latter points are no going to be my problem, naturally.  If it turns out there's an ID there, the new owner of it can take charge of piffling details like road worthiness.

[vulgalour]

Work continues apace on the donor car.  Today Pat has been cleaning and organising all the loose fixings in the car a task that seems pointless until you want to use anything.  I've been on tidy up outside and documenting things like the wiring routing and any other things we can find out about this car that we need to know for ours.  I now know the speedo cable in ours is incorrectly routed (I had suspected this) and know where it should run.  Likewise with the wiring under the dash, I now know how that's all supposed to be installed.

Also learned what the little holes down the sill are for on our car and that's this bit of trim that goes under the carpet and looks to provide a seal against the doors.

These are the things it's difficult to put a value on with a donor.  Other things I learned today is that the fuel tank appears to be okay, the fuel lines that run to the front of the car are still present and the original metal lines so we might try and salvage those since ours are some sort of clear plastic.  The wiring harness on the donor is in surprisingly good shape too and original to the car.  This should provide a really good reference point so I'm taking as many photos as I can, especially of those bits I struggled to find reference for when starting work on ours.

I also know what goes on the inner driver's side front wing in the engine bay.  What I don't know is what it's for.  Too small to hold a coil (and the wrong side of the engine bay anyway), too big to hold the wiring harness, and probably too flimsy to hold the jack or wheel brace.  I've no idea what's supposed to live here so hopefully someone else does.

When we've finished cleaning, organising, and bagging all the loose bits then we can move on to dismantling the body.  It's not going to take very long at all.  Then we can start figuring out which bits we're putting on our car, which bits are spares, and which bits are going up for sale.

[somewhatfoolish]

Holder for an oilcan or a greasegun?

[egg]

Love the way this donor has got the enthusiasm going!

[vulgalour]

23 hours ago, Angrydicky said:

Has this got a trafficator switch or the remains of still present? The internal bakelite, which supports the contacts for the trafficator switch, is broken on mine and despite my best supergluing efforts, I can only get the nearside trafficator to work unless I slot a screwdriver down between the contacts.  Looks the same as mine. I would be interested if it's got a good bakelite in it.

Unfortunately that part and the whole stator tube are gone.  We suspect it was removed for repair and then organised with the same due diligence applied to the engine.  If it was there, you would have got dibs on it.

[vulgalour]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Holder for an oilcan or a greasegun?

Hmm.. could be.  It's about the right diameter for my grease gun.

[vulgalour]

It's been a day of busy work here.  Don't get me wrong, I wasn't feel down about the extra work our first Lanchester had given us, merely annoyed that it had put us on the back foot a bit.  It was nice to actually get some of the cosmetic things finalised even if it did jump the queue.  Today, Pat spent his time running all the loose hardware through the ultrasonic cleaner and laying them all out to dry and then I spent time using his system to back everything up once it was sorted.  This has taken quite a while but it will hopefully be worth it later since we can see at a glance how many of what fixings we have.

[666jjp]

looks like a grease gun

 

[vulgalour]

oh, top sleuthing there.

[Dobloseven]

Loving this thread. They are lovely little cars. The cars from long gone makers, doomed to fail, that sold in tiny numbers, to me are so fascinating. Don't know if I've mentioned it, before, but there's a lovely chap on the next road to us, who's rebuilding a LD10 with the Barker body in his garage. He's commited a sin in my eyes of painting it white. Was black, but it's in safe hands and it's his to do as he likes with. He's also got a pretty well immaculate LA10, and a "rat look" Roadrider he keeps somewhere else. He took the LA 10 to Holland, I believe, a few years ago with the Daimler and Lanchester Club. 

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

PPD550 was registered Surrey between Nov. 1950 and Oct 1951

There is a note "Allocated in blocks"

Many Licensing Authorities set aside blocks for allocation to a particular organisations eg McAlpines or Government Departments

or for allocation solely to tax classes (typically numbers 1 to 99 for Motor Cycles)

[egg]

Didn't know there was an LD10 van, Hooper bodied. I wonder if this is the only one left?

[vulgalour]

As far as I'm aware, that van is the only one that was commissioned to be made.  There's a couple of dropheads that survive too though like the van I think these were specially commissioned rather than a factory offering.

[egg]

On 03/04/2023 at 12:45, vulgalour said:

As far as I'm aware, that van is the only one that was commissioned to be made.  There's a couple of dropheads that survive too though like the van I think these were specially commissioned rather than a factory offering.

Thanks, I imagine if it was built by Hoopers that it would have been a vey expensive commercial option.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Hoopers and Lanchester were both part of the BSA group at the time.

The LD10 Van may well have been built for the Works.

Like this BSA 10hp Van was earlier built for the BSA Advertising Department.

(The driver pictured was called Bert and towards the end of his life he gave his archive of marketing material to my late mate John).

 

 

[Richard_FM]

I presume Lanchester didn't get into the Austerity era habit of building purchase tax dodging estate cars that could be sold as vans to get around the rules.

[Datsuncog]

I love an unlikely coachbuilt van.

I think my favourite's this local Austin A125 Sheerline.

[lesapandre]

Daimler & Lanchester OC website gives a few more details on the 'specials':

https://www.dloc.org.uk/ld10

[vulgalour]

10 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

I presume Lanchester didn't get into the Austerity era habit of building purchase tax dodging estate cars that could be sold as vans to get around the rules.

I don't think they could even if they wanted to.  Lanchester sits sort of in the Rover segment with a lean more towards quality materials and comfort.  It's not the sort of company you'd go to for a commercial vehicle, especially when there were so many other companies out there offering just that.  For Lanchester too, I suspect they simply didn't have the resources to create something like that.  The picture of the company post war, like many, was one of a company just trying to get back on its feet again.  Putting the resources into creating estate cars for the a market that would likely see the Lanchester as out of their price bracket wouldn't have made any sense either, if you could afford a Lanchester you wouldn't be worried about chopping windows into a new van you'd just bought.

I reckon they probably did the best they could in the market they were in and did well to survive as long as they did independantly, being bought by Daimler was probably the best outcome they could have realistically hoped for.

[vulgalour]

Set up a little For Sale thread here:

It's mirrored on a couple of other fora.  I'll update it as stuff is processed and available for purchase.

[egg]

4 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Daimler & Lanchester OC website gives a few more details on the 'specials':

https://www.dloc.org.uk/ld10

very interesting, thanks, I didn't realise there were less than 600 Barker bodies built, it's amazing any have survived.

[DSdriver]

Shameless self promotion

I have stocks of 2BA and 4BA stainless steel screws and nuts. Not sure if these were used by the motor industry or were just a marine industry thing.

Itemised on my website here if anyone is interested http://www.hadlowmarine.com/Pages/Machinescrews.html (at the bottom of the page)

Discounts to Shiters obvs.

[vulgalour]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:51 PM, LightBulbFun said:

speaking of registration etc, dont happen to have a nice close up shot of the number plate for us me to oggle at?

Well, that's my new Grindr username sorted.

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Well, that's my new Grindr username sorted.

Ah Homo number plates, always a right giggle  (I appreciate the shots!)

On 28/11/2020 at 20:41, LightBulbFun said:

EDIT: also worth noting that I think those plates in your picture are a pair of Homo-Hygrade plates, notable by the distinctive way they did the digit 8  (and technically a predecessor of the serck plate as the company was bought out by them IIRC!)

and before anyone gets funny with me about the name!

"Homoweldo" could then  be the name of your hypothetical body repair and metal fabrication business? LOL