project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Trim Install and Woodworm Treating

[PhilA]

Yes and no; better than a fiery hurrah on the oval; it has gone on to keep another on the road, and hopefully others kept in spares.

Better than two not on the road and both rusting away into impecunity.

Phil

[vulgalour]

I was supposed to be having a rest day today, sitting around doing nothing, recharging... I'm rubbish at that so I did some tinkering on the donor car instead since the weather is so nice. I didn't plan to get the power tools out, I told myself that's too much like work, and then I did it anyway.

First of all, here's some better shots of the rot in the roof. I wanted to scope out the shapes to see if there was anything similar to the rear arch shape that could be salvaged but I'm going to have to accept that if we do need to repair that in the future it will have to be with new wood cut to shape since there's nothing to really salvage from the donor roof frame.



There's a lot of busy work now to remove all the items of value to us. I'll go into more detail in the videos I'll eventually post on this. For now I can tell you the voltage regulator looks like it might be decent (won't know until we test it, of course), the wiper motor assembly pretty much fell off the car due to rot in the structure it was screwed to. Column gear selector mechanism didn't put up any fight at all, which is nice, the other radiator stay rod was removed, the floor dim-dip switch was liberated, and the removable gearbox cover unbolted with no real trouble either.


Additionally, I learned that the larger portion of the gearbox tunnel unbolts separately and can be removed whole. The same is true of the entire toeboard. Both panels are in surprisingly good shape considering the state of the rest of the car and I've salvaged those. I don't know how the steering wheel, column, and box come apart from one another and it was easy enough to remove the whole thing from the car by unbolting the steering box from the chassis and slicing through the bracket that screws to the bulkhead as a strengthener/supporter for the steering column.


Access to the mechanical stuff still to remove at the front is much better now.

 

[vulgalour]

Left a little present out for the local scrap collectors since a couple of them have been really polite and professional when enquiring about potential scrap here. I'm sure one of them will be pleased to find it.


That means that the bodywork - apart from the bulkhead - is now off the chassis. It wasn't a difficult job since it was all quite rotten. For reasons of reference, I took both sills off whole since this will help me understand what shapes to make for ours when I do the considerably smaller repairs they need. Having both the sills off the donor gives me a rough sketch of how things should look and will mean I can make oversized panels and trim to suit easier on our car since I've got something that I can work with 'on the bench'. It also meant I could take the B pillars off at the same time without trying to remove them separately. The other item the sills have is the carpet edge trim weather seal pieces which our car is missing, these should also be easier to remove and retrim/remake when the time comes to doing it on our car.


Our battery box needs some small repair so I liberated the one from the donor car since it's also very repairable. It basically needs the thin steel side panels remaking and the whole thing painting, the sturdier parts of the framework are in excellent shape still. I can also sort out a battery clamp properly a lot easier with this off the car too.


There wasn't anything else to save this round since I was focused more on dismantling the scrap to get to the next pieces I'd like to remove. Not a lot to go now, happily. I'll be happier still when the back garden looks less Steptoe & Son.


Shall we have a look at the chassis then? Overall, it's in pretty good shape at least as far as I can see at the moment. It's not perfect, understandably, and does have some localised issues. I was expecting a lot more rot and issues than there are. Obviously all the jacking points are knackered, and have had a variety of repairs over the years. I had hoped there'd be at least one whole jacking point I could use as reference but there isn't, I'll just have to figure it out from what's on our car and start from scratch with them.


On the rot front, there's some in the front of the chassis rails ahead of the crossmember, and a little bit in the side rail under the driver's seat. These do look repairable if you can work in suitable thickness steel and do seem very localised. The rest of the chassis has some pitting as you'd expect but it doesn't appear to have any particularly thin or frilly bits. We'll see how it goes as I remove the rest of the items still attached currently.




The body mounts appear to be in good shape, though the same could not be said for the bodyshell where it mounted to the chassis, in some places leaving behind good chunks of itself as the remains were lifted free.


It was nice to finally be able to sweep up the massive pile of dirt under the car and have things looking tidier. Not many more things to remove now to be down to just a bare chassis. I'll be happy when I get the driveway cleared and the spares tidied up so attention can return to the other Lanchester.

[PhilA]

I forget- in the UK does the identity of the car that age get attached to the chassis and engine combo, or the body?

Or does that all now fall into the biva points system?

[Rocket88]

5 minutes ago, PhilA said:

I forget- in the UK does the identity of the car that age get attached to the chassis and engine combo, or the body?

Or does that all now fall into the biva points system?

Chassis, I think…..

[PhilA]

Just now, Rocket88 said:

Chassis, I think…..

So building a Special from it would be moderately straightforward.

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, PhilA said:

I forget- in the UK does the identity of the car that age get attached to the chassis and engine combo, or the body?

Or does that all now fall into the biva points system?

identity falls to the chassis (or monocoque if of such construction) 

but there is still a points system at play depending on what exactly you do with the chassis etc

[vulgalour]

Yeah, and a bare chassis with a number plate is probably going to fall foul of the points system.  However, if someone wanted to fit period appropriate oily bits it's definitely possible and I reckon you could do it within the spirit of the law if you were smart about it.  The engine that's present could be rebuilt by someone that wanted to which helps with the points, and gearboxes etc. do pop up now and then.

Had I had more time/money/space and on the assumption that the car still exists on the system, I definitely would have had a go at building some sort of Special, a little roadster, or an estate, or just something totally random for the fun of it.  You'd have to do so much work to restore it you might as well do the same amount of work and make something unique while still retaining the visual identity of a Lanchester in the process.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

These were largely coachbuilt if I understand correctly, so the definition of 'modification' may be a little looser given that there were a number of varieties?  A 'factory' Lanchester LD10 is quite a broad net?  Am I right there or talking complete cobblers?

[Rocket88]

Daimler V8 engine and box? Same lineage…..

[somewhatfoolish]

Not unless you want to go through IVA; not enough points.

[vulgalour]

Either way, not my problem since I won't be doing it and it's all theory right now anyway until the DVLA speak.

[vulgalour]

Yesterday I hosed the chassis down to get the bulk of the dirt off and make it easier to strip the few remaining items of value to us.  It looks much the same as it did in the last photo.  This made stripping off the next few bits somewhat easier since I could see where the fixings, or what was left of them, were.  Most of the items I want off the bulkhead are now off, there's very little left to remove here.

That meant today's small haul is the wiper motor, some wiring harness P clips, the copper fuel lines, the fuel reserve cable and pull, and the bulkhead trim panel.  Somehow, against all logic, the bulkhead trim panel has survived with little more than some surface rust on the rivets and a bit of surface mould on one edge.  Given how this car was stored and how prone an area this is to getting wet, it should be little more than mush.

Still to remove is all the rear running gear including the leaf springs and lever shock dampers, the front suspension and hubs, the main battery cable, all of the brake mechanisms, and what's left of the wiring harness.  That should then leave us with a chassis and bulkhead awaiting its fate at the hands of the DVLA.

Since I'll have a spare pair of rear wings, and at least two good spare steel wheels and matching hubcaps I've been considering getting a modern lightweight box trailer and dressing it up with Lanchester parts so it looks age appropriate.  I'm not really tempted to use the back half of the chassis from the donor due to the weight of it, far easier to make a modern trailer look old than build a modern trailer entirely from old parts.

[watkindj]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:39 PM, vulgalour said:

Yeah, and a bare chassis with a number plate is probably going to fall foul of the points system.  However, if someone wanted to fit period appropriate oily bits it's definitely possible and I reckon you could do it within the spirit of the law if you were smart about it.  The engine that's present could be rebuilt by someone that wanted to which helps with the points, and gearboxes etc. do pop up now and then.

Had I had more time/money/space and on the assumption that the car still exists on the system, I definitely would have had a go at building some sort of Special, a little roadster, or an estate, or just something totally random for the fun of it.  You'd have to do so much work to restore it you might as well do the same amount of work and make something unique while still retaining the visual identity of a Lanchester in the process.

I have had the same  thought on repurposing a car that's too far gone here's just a couple, the two door coupe i liked the idea of the most.  last one is a bit too custom for me

[vulgalour]

Those are some fun ideas, I like those, especially the truck.

---

It's been a busy day today, doing my best to get more of the donor gone through.  The wiring harness that runs through the chassis was proving difficult to remove so instead I removed all the other wiring which will be hopefully useful for reference for later.  The battery cable was also removed, it's not really in good enough shape to use again but is complete so like the wiring harness will be very useful for reference when ordering parts to make a new one.

Some smaller items like clips and bits of the chassis ID tags that had self-removed were rescued, as was the brake light switch.  Amazingly, the one on the donor car isn't seized and only has minor surface corrosion, even the rubber gasket is in good shape.  Once I've cleaned and tested it to make sure it's good, I'll be fitting that to our main Lanchester in place of the dodgy plastic switch that doesn't seem to work.

All of the front suspension has now been liberated, along with the main front-to-rear brake rod.  I had intended to then remove the rear axle but I was done with fighting rusty bolts and skinning my knuckles so changed tack.

With the front suspension removed it was very easy for Pat and I to pick up the front of the chassis and just move it to the new location.  The only thing that made that difficult is the rear wheels won't roll.  This could be a lack of weight so it's just easier for the ancient tyres to skid than roll.  It could be that because I've removed the handbrake cable and mechanism, and the front-to-back brake rod that the brakes are on, or it could be that this was the first time we'd tried to roll the car forwards and something is broken meaning the rear wheels only roll backwards.  I don't know.  It didn't matter anyway, because there was so little weight we could just drag the thing to the new spot to free up the garage and get the good Lanchester out.

The main reason I wanted to do this was some metal drip trays I'd been keeping on a stack of wheels had fallen off without any input from anything, apparently, and I couldn't get in to sort it out without getting the Lanchester out of the garage, which of course I couldn't do with the donor blocking the way.  Turns out some of my plastic storage boxes are collapsing, had shoved against the stack of tyres moving them far enough that the metal trays fell off.  I suppose I better spring clean the garage then.

Much better!  I've relocated the tyre stack, shuffled all my rubbish... er... valuable and rare spares.. about and gained a foot or so of extra width and length to the useable space in the tiny garage.  That's quite an achievement.  I even threw some things away!  What I didn't do was go through every single box and organise things because the boxes are fragile, I only had so much time, and I can't afford the racking I want to put in the garage to solve my storage issue.  The good Lanchester is way easier to get in and out of the garage now we've got that extra space to play with, and I can get to stuff easier too because there's room to walk down the side of the car at last.

Good Lanchester out of the garage and I'm happy to report no signs of active woodworm, moths, or other pests.  Aside from some dust, all looks well.  As a little treat and to keep them from getting accidentally damaged, I boshed the three trim rings that came with the donor car on our car.  These rings will get the oxalic acid treatment followed by a coat of lacquer or similar to keep them from completely dissolving.  It would be nice to find a fourth scruffy one to match, for now these will do.

Looking forward to being able to dig into KKV again soon and get things moving once more now the donor car is properly out of the way.  Still more to remove from the donor of course, there's just less pressure now since we've got to wait up to another month before we can chase the DVLA about the V5.

[egg]

Do my eyes deceive me or is this a Barker body LD10 at 40 seconds on in this video of Totnes? (Probs something completely different)

 

[RayMK]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Do my eyes deceive me or is this a Barker body LD10 at 40 seconds on in this video of Totnes? (Probs something completely different)

 

Don't know about the LD10 but 1949 was the year of my birth.  God I'm old fashioned!!

[High Jetter]

1 minute ago, RayMK said:

Don't know about the LD10 but 1949 was the year of my birth.  God I'm old fashioned!!

1949? Jeez! Nah, just old. Fashion is just opinion. 

[vulgalour]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Do my eyes deceive me or is this a Barker body LD10 at 40 seconds on in this video of Totnes? (Probs something completely different)

 

I reckon it's more likely that's a Morris Ten Series M.  Made from '38 to '48.  I almost thought it was a '39 Hillman Minx until I saw the rear end.

[egg]

9 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Morris Ten Series M

That's the badger, sorry for false info! That has the correct front wing shape.

[vulgalour]

We are finally putting things back on the car instead of taking them off.  The main thing to reinstall was the waterpump, to do that it needed the engine mount to be replaced which until recently has been an issue.  Happily, the donor car came with what appears to be a NOS engine mount.  It isn't an easy job at all to replace the engine mount, the radiator had to come out, the water pump would have had to come out had it not already been removed, and it took Pat on one tool and me on another to get everything in.  You also have to jack the engine up under the sump - cast aluminium and not finned so it's strong enough for the job - so you can align everything.  The old engine mount came off in three pieces, which it shouldn't do.

The new one slotted in quite nicely and once installed we found the engine sat a good bit higher and now had some wiggle to it where before it was completely solid, which makes sense since the rubber part of the old engine mount wasn't really doing any damping of any sort.  After that, the water pump could be reinstalled, the top hose put in place so it's not floating about in a box, and the radiator slotted back into its hole.  The new fan belt was also dropped on.

Finally, the dynamo was reinstalled loosely.  The stuck nut that had caused an electrical connector to shear proved to not be stuck at all once the dynamo had a spanner taken to it and undid quite easily by hand. Not sure what that was about but since nothing else was wrong with the dynamo before it made sense to drop it in the hole today so it's another thing that's not just knocking about in the boot.  At this point I'm only interested in restoring and sprucing up parts if they need repairing, if they don't need repairing they can stay scruffy until further notice.  Access to fit the dynamo is appalling and I hated every minute of it, in case you were curious.

Now, if I can just find the time to get caught up with my video editing queue and absolutely trashed upload schedule, perhaps they'll get up to somewhere near where we are in real time soon.

[vulgalour]

We have news from the DVLA regarding the donor car.

The car does not exist on their system, which we already know, but since we can prove existence of the car we could get a V5C for it.  We would need to contact a suitable car club - DLOC is likely the best candidate - to confirm the car is what we've said it is.  Then the DVLA will issue a new V5C with a non-transferable reg marker on it.  If we were restoring the car this would be ideal.

However, if the club chosen refuse the application we do have an alternative route of applying for an age related plate, also non-transferable, through the usual forms.

For us, that means the end of the road for the chassis.  Unless someone out there desperately wants a bare chassis with a non-transferable reg we shall be chopping this one up and disposing of it.

 

[vulgalour]

Well, that was a pleasant day.  No pressure to fix anything, no deadline to get a certain amount of work done by a certain point, just a bit of a plod along and a note taking to see where I'm at.  Only doing a visual physical inspection, no multimeter work, no connecting the battery, just double checking things look like they're where they're supposed to be and making a record of it to work from.

All the wiring in the boot looks to be okay, no sign of damaged or loose connections.  I put connectors on the extensions for the indicators, but that was it.  I'll deal with connecting those up later since that's an addition to the original wiring.  I'm also undecided if I should run the high level brake wiring from the driver's side lamp directly (like the passenger side lamp is), or splice it into the loom inside the boot.  A decision for another day that since we're a way off that part of the job.

Visually, we can mark off all the rear lights, and the fuel tank sender.  All the wires and connections are present and accounted for and I labelled some wires for quick reference so I don't have to keep remembering what colours are for what.  In the middle of the car, the driver's side semaphore is connected and installed, the passenger side one isn't.  The brake light switch under the floor is also connected.

The interior light is still connected and looks no different to how we did it last time when it worked.

For the dashboard, I didn't get as far as making a note of the wiring colours to the instrument panel, it's an awkward job to do with the panel installed.  The wiper motor, cigar lighter, and flashing indicators are currently disconnected

I checked the ignition switch and it is wired as per one of the diagrams I have for it:
A - A1 and a yellow wire
A3/Ignition - A3 (white) and Coil (white)
T - EMPTY
L - Sidelights (red, x2)
H - Dip switch (blue)

I don't know what the white with black trace is for at the moment beyond a diagram suggesting it's for the clock.  Something to investigate another time, not on the docket for today.

Voltage regulator (Lucas RF95) wiring I left exactly as it is, there's no sign of any wires having pulled out or similar, it is wired like so:
A1 - Ignition Switch (yellow)
A - Starter Motor (yellow/black)
A2 - Horn (yellow/black), and Interior Light (purple)
F - Dynamo Field(green/black)
D - Dynamo Main (yellow), and Ignition Clock possibly (white/black)
A4 - Horn push (purple/black), and stop light (purple/black)
A4 - EMPTY (there's two sockets labelled A4)
E - Earth x2 (black for both)
A3 - Ignition A3 (white) and Coil (white)

There are some wires that should go the voltage regulator that are currently disconnected, as follows:
Wiper motor (purple/black)
Cigar Lighter (slate)
Inspection Lamp (yellow/black)

All the harness connectors at the bulkhead join look to be physically sound and connected well.

Likewise, the connectors for the harness where it emerges from the chassis at the front all look to be physically sound and connected well.  I did find the oil sender and coil connections were loose, so tightened those up properly since that wasn't too arduous a task.

Dynamo was reinstalled, this was a mission because of the new fan belt and required the radiator to be removed to get access with a pry bar to align things for the second pivot bolt.  The new belt is a much tighter fit than the old one but should bed in okay, it doesn't seem to be so tight it's stressing any bearings or similar.  With that in I could replace the snapped off eyelet and reconnect the wiring the correct way around.  This wasn't a job on the docket for today, it just ended up happening.  While I was in this area I also cleaned up the earth point on the handbrake cable bracket, tightened that, and secured the starter motor bowden cable with a better bolt so it shouldn't slip out again.

I do need to grease the water pump before we start the engine again.  Starter motor wiring looked to be secure and sound.  Horns were properly secured to their brackets, access is a pig for this job so it was no fun.  I will be replacing the blue and brown wires with yellow/black and yellow/purple (or the nearest I can get) to match the main harness.  I've labelled the horn wiring so I know which ones go to which side of the car.  I need to order some new bullet connectors as I don't have enough of the right size in stock currently.

Up front, the headlights require new bullet connectors to replace the spade connectors I used when initially assembling everything, especially the one failed crimp for an earth wire.  This is another item added to my shopping list.  The original sidelight location has been changed to the headlights and the wiring for those looks okay.

The new flashing indicators at the front will be in the original sidelight housings.  These are not connected yet.  Green/white for the driver's side and green/red for the passenger side. I need to figure out the best earth solution for these in the future, not something I was going to do today.

After that was done I spent some time tidying and putting a few bits back on the car for ease of storage.  The other auxilliary light (neither are wired up yet) was loosely plonked in its hole and the front bumper quickly bolted on but not adjusted.  Everything that didn't need to be in the car was removed to make access to the wiring as easy as possible and to give some working space in the car itself.

The goal today wasn't to fix anything - though some minor jobs did happen - it was to find and set a baseline for future investigation.  That's why I didn't get the multimeter out or even connect the battery, that can come later once I've recorded the wiring for the instrument panel.

It was actually just really pleasant to take my time on this, not worry about the camera for photos or videos, and just enjoy tidying and tinkering and putting right some small things.  Because I now don't have to empty out the car of stuff, or even move that much out of the way to get it out of the garage, when it comes to doing the testing I should have an easier time of it.

[vulgalour]

It is too hot to do much of anything so I've been nibbling away at what I can outdoors and making small progress.  Amongst today's efforts were chopping up what's left of the donor chassis and putting some of that out for scrap and removing the ugly lump of filler from the front wing of the good Lanchester.  Now the filler and the small dent in the return lip that was sticking out won't snag on clothes as you squidge past the car to get it out of the garage.  Dressed the worst of the dents out so it's more the proper shape and then gave it some red primer and black enamel to blend it a bit better than the shiny steel.

Now instead of looking like obvious damage, it just looks like the rest of the knocks and dents around the car so that's good enough for me.  No welding required here either, which was a relief.

[Angrydicky]

Can’t wait to see this back on the road.

One of my friends sent me a picture of an old car that has recently appeared on a front garden near him. There’s been a few old cars at that house over the years but mostly 70s stuff. Anyway it turned out to be an LD10. The reg has dropped off the system but was issued in Southampton around April 1948 so she’s quite an early one.

 

[vulgalour]

9 hours ago, Angrydicky said:

Can’t wait to see this back on the road.

One of my friends sent me a picture of an old car that has recently appeared on a front garden near him. There’s been a few old cars at that house over the years but mostly 70s stuff. Anyway it turned out to be an LD10. The reg has dropped off the system but was issued in Southampton around April 1948 so she’s quite an early one.

 

That'll be that London one that was on eBay with a terrible advert: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354848763714

Being a Briggs, there's no wood to worry about.  I wonder how well it'll fare now it's sat outside.

[Angrydicky]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

That'll be that London one that was on eBay with a terrible advert: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354848763714

Being a Briggs, there's no wood to worry about.  I wonder how well it'll fare now it's sat outside.

Apparently it's been bought as a spares car for a better one he has.

[vulgalour]

Oh well in that case, fair play.

As for ours being on the road... it will happen eventually.  Not to put too fine a point on it, cash is tight right now so investment in projects and fun stuff isn't really much of an option.  The priority is getting the Maestro sorted out so it can be sold next year for the best price and then I'll be down to just the Lanchester and the Princess.  That should give me more time and money to spend on both and the progress should improve.  The Maestro was only supposed to be here for about six months while I sorted the Princess out fully and because of *waves hands in the general vicinity of everything* it's been here above two years.  Likewise the Lanchester should have been on the road and being used by now.

It's just frustrating really.  I inspect the Lanchester weekly, get it out of the garage to air it out and check for pests, and pick away at any small jobs I can in the meantime.  Finishing the trouble shooting on the wiring requires more brain than I presently possess and that pretty much stops any other progress being made at the moment.

[MorrisItalSLX]

This one has popped up locally to me, I’m surprised to see one here on the other side of the planet.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5883156805145145/

[vulgalour]

As of today, we can add mice to the list of unwanted residents of the Lanchester.

Fortunately not real harm done, looks like it was only in there long enough to make one tiny nest in the rear seat base.  For reasons of hygiene, I've discarded the wool felt and the hessian that covers the seat base (new and original) that had been nibbled through and some of the cardboard that had been stored in the car.  Cleaned out the nest (no babies, thankfully), the small amount of poop, and checked the rest of the car for any other signs of mouse and found nothing.  I've also given everything in the mousey zone a liberal dousing with neat floor cleaner both to disinfect and dissuade future mouses, this is something I recall grandparents telling me was a good idea if you get mice in your house.  I've also removed the cardboard from the car, tipped the rear seat base up so there's no secret spaces for a mouse to set up shop, put the rear floor boards back in so it's more difficult for a mouse to get in the car and now I'm hoping we're done with pest invasions.

The mouse can't have been in there more than a week at the most because that's the last time I had the car out of the garage and there was zero signs of mouse activity in the garage at that point.  What's ironic is today Pat found a wild mouse in the garden that looked really rather unwell and we were concerned it had been poisoned and was struggling.  We're both soft hearted idiots so we gave it a little dish of water just in case it was dehydrated instead and it turned out that yes, that must have been the case because after a drink it perked up and buggered off.

I know mice are vermin and a problem, it's why we don't put food out for the birds, only water.  Trouble is, neither of us can bring ourselves to be cruel to wildlife, we are very much live and let live, so we'll always do our best to deter than exterminate.  There are certain things mice don't like smell wise, like mint oil, white pepper, and a few other very strong smells so there are certainly things you can put down to dissuade them from setting up shop.  It's why we keep cedar blocks in the car, that keeps spiders and moths away quite effectively