1977 Princess 1.8 HL

[holbeck]

6 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

an escrote mk3 diseasel was faster & moar refined!🤣

And didn't appear for another 5 or 6 years!

I think the only Ford you could  get as a Derv at the time was a Granada 2.1D

[2flags]

I don't understand why they didn't put the 5 speed box and the 1750 Maxi engine in these. The 2200 is the 6cyl E series engine, the same series as the Maxi. Why couldn't that box be made to fit? It would have made the car so much more refined. Didn't understand it then and still don't now.

[phil_lihp]

Well there's the speedo issues, cable has snapped in the back of the gauge.

This is the gearbox end, will start shopping for a new one.

I have a brand new thermostat to go in it too, it doesn't fully warm up any more in the colder weather.  Only problem is, as I've seen others dealing with, despite the bolts coming off easily enough, I cannot get the housing off, it's welded itself to the head.  Will that be a case of buying a new one and removing the old one with a hammer as a sacrifice to the BL gods of Goodenough and Notmyjob?  I suspect it will.

[Isaac Hunt]

On 1/9/2021 at 6:59 PM, HMC said:

I like the idea of a tuned b series in this. They (BL BMH or whatever they were called that week) did do something similar with the ‘crab (1800s) so a bit of OEM+ would be a nice touch.

Leyland Special Tuning did a ST Kit for the Princess 1800, my Dad fitted one to his 1800HL in 1978.  It had twin 1/34 SU's and a LCB Exhaust Manifold.  

[somewhatfoolish]

That looks like it's been off fairly recently, but the only way is to have it off.

[phil_lihp]

3 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

That looks like it's been off fairly recently, but the only way is to have it off.

It definitely hasn't, I spent ages on it and it may as well be part of the head!

[holbeck]

5 minutes ago, phil_lihp said:

It definitely hasn't, I spent ages on it and it may as well be part of the head!

In that case. Renault 5 is the answer. 

[phil_lihp]

Possibly but if I can get a new housing then I'd rather get the right one in there.

[phil_lihp]

21 minutes ago, Isaac Hunt said:

Leyland Special Tuning did a ST Kit for the Princess 1800, my Dad fitted one to his 1800HL in 1978.  It had twin 1/34 SU's and a LCB Exhaust Manifold.  

It'd be ace to find an old NOS kit for sale somewhere!

[GeorgeB]

1 hour ago, phil_lihp said:

I have a brand new thermostat to go in it too, it doesn't fully warm up any more in the colder weather.  Only problem is, as I've seen others dealing with, despite the bolts coming off easily enough, I cannot get the housing off, it's welded itself to the head.  Will that be a case of buying a new one and removing the old one with a hammer as a sacrifice to the BL gods of Goodenough and Notmyjob?  I suspect it will.

Blow torch.

[Talbot]

2 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

I cannot get the housing off, it's welded itself to the head. 

Two nuts locked together on the studs to remove them, and then it will tap off with the hide side of a copper/hide mallet.  Or you could be all fancy-schmancy and use stud extractors.  Either way, the problem is you're trying to break the gasket by pulling the housing up straight on the studs, which will never work.

50p says you don't need a new anything (other than a thermostat)

[Low Horatio gearbox]

3 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

Well there's the speedo issues, cable has snapped in the back of the gauge.

Called it! AICMFP.

 

Some heat and gentle persuasion with a rubber or nylon  mallet may loosen it. There is always the period method of a bit of cardboard  behind the grille to restrict airflow  a bit.  

[SiC]

53 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Either way, the problem is you're trying to break the gasket by pulling the housing up straight on the studs, which will never work.

Don't these suffer from the same problem as the A-series where the steel studs become effectively welded to the aluminium housing? 

There probably is better ways of removing them, but I've usually ended up doing the violent method of smashing them into pieces to get them off. Probably a lot of heat may be a more gentle solution. 

[Talbot]

If memory serves, you get aluminium corrosion where the steel stud passes through the aluminium housing.  The aluminium oxide expands and siezes the steel in place.  However, a little bit of heat and some determined back-and-forth on the stud will break the grip of the oxide, allowing the stud to be removed, the housing to be removed, and then the housing drillings to be cleaned up.

Not a 5-minute job, but definitely quicker than getting a new housing.

[phil_lihp]

Cheers guys, I'll give those suggestions a try.

[Dj_efk]

13 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

It'd be ace to find an old NOS kit for sale somewhere!

Failing that then the 1800S landcrab has both the carbs and a fancy exhaust manifold that would be as good I think.

If it were me then I would find / have a manifold made but keep the single carb personally, to stay faithful with my modifying ethos mentioned above.

 

Ignition-wise, a 123 setup is available and coupled with a high output coil and 8mm silicone HT leads would give you a noticeable bump in efficiency over the standard setup even if you left everything else well alone.

[rovamota]

http://www.leylandprincess.co.uk/1800st.htm

O-series engine parts from the later Montego and Maestro aren't interchangable with the earlier Ital/Princess and Sherpa O-series as the block was rotated 180 degrees. The cam pulleys run on the opposite side to earlier units. This was to enable the fitting of the 5-speed VW gearbox. 

A complete engine swap might be feasible but significant reworking of the engine bay would be required as the mountings are completely different and extra castings were made on the block for mounting attachments. The Princess engine was only held in place by 4 mounts.

[bezzabsa]

One of BL's stable I have never even sat in.....whats the plan for the pleather C pillar trim? paint, leave as is , or pleather again?? 

[phil_lihp]

4 hours ago, bezzabsa said:

One of BL's stable I have never even sat in.....whats the plan for the pleather C pillar trim? paint, leave as is , or pleather again?? 

I need to get the holes welded up, then will re-vinyl them.

Eventually.

[jonathan_dyane]

13 hours ago, Dj_efk said:

1800S landcrab

Now you’re talking my language! What a motorcar!

 

[phil_lihp]

I decided to change the thermostat today.

On the plus side, the old stat is now out and predictably manky.  I have a shiny new one ready to go in...however...

I used copious amounts of plusgas and gentle taps around the studs with a hammer, initially without success so I tried winding out a stud by putting two nuts on it.  

Fail number 1.

The stud sheared off at the bottom of the threads.

However, as the above photo shows, I did eventually persuade both parts of the housing to come off.  Once a tiny gap opened up, I tried levering it up with a screwdriver, which worked but turned out not to be a great idea.

So now I need a new one of these.  MGB ones look similar but most have no fill cap on top, the ones that do have an extra moulding which means it won't fit so I will have to do a bit more research.

On the plus side, I have been finding that it turns over a lot on cold starts before firing if it's been left a few days.  I found there was slack on the choke cable so adjusted it up, I'd guessed it might not actually be getting full choke when the lever was out.  Tried it for the first time in a week today and it's much better, so I'm calling that a win.

I've got a new speedo cable on order too, so when that arrives I'll start the mildly terrifying process of pulling the brittle dash apart to fit it.

[Talbot]

It's difficult to tell, but in that top photo, is the stud fully out, or did it shear off again, leaving the threaded section behind??

As for it shearing off the top bit.... that's quite impressive.  I've never heard of a stud being snapped from the torque of two nuts locked together.  Well done!  Does sound very much like there was a massive amount of corrosion between the studs and the aluminium housing.  Possibly enough that you would have needed a new thermostat housing anyway.

[phil_lihp]

The stud sheared off level with the top of the housing almost as soon as I put a bit of torque on the lower bolt, it was pretty rusty and where it snapped looks like a bit of corrosion inside so all 3 probably need to come out and be replaced.  

[vulgalour]

Seeing that I'm feeling extra lucky at how easy replacing the thermostat on the Maestro was, this is exactly how I expected that job to go.

[Low Horatio gearbox]

That went as well if not better than it could have.  Soak the studs copiously in plusgas while you contemplate your next move. Waiting for the correct housing may take some time so an MGB one may have  to do - owners pages on face ache or forums can be helpful (tho therein are a minefield of stitch/rivet counting )

Chodspeed with the dash, take your time, lots of cups of tea/coffee.

[ThisWayUp]

Bad luck with that housing. I repaired similar damage on the housing of my AH-Sprite using JB Weld and it worked well. Used a dremmel to get to good metal then applied the JB-Weld. Once dry I shaped it and sanded the mating surface flat. Worked well and I never had any issues. 

[phil_lihp]

I have kept the main chunk that came off just in case that ends up being the only option but I think it'd be a lost cause, it's fairly butchered.  As you say, an MGB one would at least fit, I'll see if anyone on the Princess owners group on Facebook has one, they've been superbly helpful up to now and there doesn't seem to be any sign of that rivet counter personality on there which is nice!

[Low Horatio gearbox]

I've found most groups on fb helpful, but  seen the odd toys out of pram for things such as "incorrect" number plate size or an owner ..shock horror modifying their own motor to suit personal need or budget. The autoshite way is much more enjoyable. YMMV.

[somewhatfoolish]

As it's into cast iron getting the stud out shouldn't be too much of a drama, access is the hardest bit so I'd be tempted to change the other two at the same time to make space.

[2flags]

When you put it back together again remember to stick copperslip on the bolts to try to reduce the possibility of it sticking again.