The CRV hates me - Cookie's adventures in shiteing

[Bear]

Those old Rangers are grim to drive. Ranger got good in 2018:

L200 is the winner if you find a good one. Small, narrow body, but still roomy, super-select 4x4 means set and forget in bad weather (and trust me, you want 4x4 with an unladen pickup in snow and storms), quite refined. Not many good ones at that price BUT you might find a Fiat Fullback cheap.

If Duster seats aren't spine-worthy any pickup short of an Amarok with ergocomfort is going to be a torture device, particularly after a few tens of thousands of miles of pickup driver/crew occupying them.

Give a Musso Sports a look too. RWD or locked diff but very car-like and not as grim as you might expect.

[Bear]

Hilux - the higher output 3.0 is okay, but the rest couldn't pull the wool off a balding sheep. For that level of crudity the D-Max is better but at that age the only lifestyle those targeted was gamekeeping and logging.

L200 engine problems: look all of these up and every one has reported issues. Rangers blow headgaskets etc. too - so do Toyotas. The common theme isn't problems with engineering, it's British climate and attitudes to maintenance and prevention. Except for Navaras, they're just shit.

There's a 2009 Hilux over the road from me - lad wants £4K for it and it's got a messed up power steering line which has crippled it, but no idea what the rest is like. Too rich for my blood as a project but potentially worth repairing if I can find out what the rest is like.

Have you considered a Nissan Pathfinder? I forgot they existed and a discussion at work blew my mind discovering the newer Navara had a Pathfinder and it /wasn't/ as I'd suspected, an oversized stretched Qashqai/Infiniti (there is a Pathfinder on a monocoque, hence the confusion) - it's a bona fide chassis pickup-to-SUV beast like a Shogun Sport.

[Rust Collector]

If comfort is an issue then the older L200 probably isn’t worth a look from my experience. My mum has a 2005 and the seats are awful, they’re about as comfortable as bus seats. I don’t find the driving position very nice, the seats are too low to the floor for such a tall vehicle. Ride is awful as well because of the leaf springs, it’s very bumpy when unladen. It’s also gutless, and the gear shift is miserable.

What it is good at is lugging shit around and towing things, which is what my mum bought it for.

I reckon any of the older generation of pickup trucks will be very similar, built as a tool more than a car, very utilitarian.

One of the pick-up derived SUV’s might be better, my Shogun sport is on coil springs at the back and it’s alright in terms of comfort, more supportive seats and more upright seating position. I had an old Hilux Surf a few years ago and that was ok too. That said they’re almost all as rusty as fuck now, it’s hard to find one with a decent chassis.

RE bad backs and cars, I can remember at least two customers with bad backs who both drove ancient Volvo estates on 200k+ miles and wanted to buy something newer but was still comfortable for their backs. Between them I tried three generations of CRV, 2 generations of Accord and the new generation HRV. The consensus was that nothing was as comfortable as the worn Volvo seats and no sales were made despite my time and effort... maybe take your mrs to see an old Volvo? 😅

[Bear]

When I had @Six-cylinder's Volvo estate with "many" miles on and a bashed nose, I did a 14 hour driving day in it all over the country pretty much. The only pain I had was my finger; I mistimed the "hold the sunroof deflector and close roof" sequence and it bit me. Seats? Bloody amazing.

[Bear]

Oh, and as a serial pickup obsessive - none of these will crack 30mpg unless you are only doing long drives. Even "my" 2019 Musso with a hardtop on - one of the quietest and most refined and aerodynamic pickups you'll get - struggled to better 36mpg and when it did it was when I commuted 160 miles a day in 50mph average roadworks for half the drive.

I have driven one pickup that cracked 40mpg - the Isuzu D-Max Utility manual, latest 1.9 161hp. They are very good, and good value in new price/cash terms for the commercial ones - but expensive for civvy spec and for all the love I've got for Isuzu, Ford has absolutely /nailed/ civilised pickups now.

The main option I'd look for with the budget at £20K mentioned once is an Amarok. They have great seats - and are refined too. V6 is probably not that cheap yet but 2.0 BiTDi is okay. Or a Fiat Fullback Cross.

£12K is probably the worst amount to spend on a double cab 4x4 pickup. Most will be shagged, there's still plenty of money to lose, and since the cheap PCPs and overstock deals went there's actually a lot of competition for them (for context my new Fullback 180 LX was £1000 down £199+VAT a month on 24 month 10kPa. If I could get that now I'd have one already).

There are only four pickups on sale new in the UK now:

Toyota Hilux - in 2.8 form really good, bit grim in 150hp form.

Isuzu D-Max - very, very good, but 1.9 sounds like it'll be weedy, still a bit agricultural in aspects but much improved and the AT35 is a beast. The old XTR ❤️

SsangYong Musso - this has evolved a bit; it's the strongest towing one by miles on weight capacity (D-Max chassis is stronger, 225kg nose weight too!) and it's also either the shortest, or the longest - the LWB Rhino has 1.7m load bed but leaf springs and ride quality suffers. The cab is HUGE and comfy - I did 10 hour drives in mine all the time - with ventilated heated seats, and double gaskets on doors and bonnets for low wind noise. Light steering and ride seems to vary with every example I've driven.

And the Ranger, which honestly is the best seller now - stole a good 10K of sales from the L200 after the 2018 facelift. They are almost faultless as a new pickup,  but the next generation is better and due real soon now, and will get the full-time 4x4 that's been absent from UK trucks since the Amarok and X-Class V6, and L200, left the market.

X-Classes are shit, by the way. So much Navara remains - you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in MB-Tex and stick a three-pointed star on it. Naturally used prices are strong because every status-challenged contractor wants a premium badge even if their labourer's Ranger is twice the refinement, tech and quality...

[High Jetter]

Hilux. End of. (TG prooved it)

[artdjones]

No question, but the DMax is good, too. But don't bother with any of them if spinal comfort is an issue.

[Matty]

8 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

What about an auld L200?

From bitter experience, don't.

[Asimo]

Has to be a Toyota. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/van-details/202103300753132

Square enough?

 

[goosey]

9 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Hilux. End of. (TG prooved it)

Any truck from the same era as the Hilux TG tested would have performed the same. 

[artdjones]

I've dealt with quite a few of the older trucks. 

My order 

1. Toyota

2. Isuzu (After the original 3.0 injector debacle.

3. Joint Ranger/L200 (A long way back.)

4.Navara(Out of sight).

 

 

 

[Bear]

Hilux: Always a solid performer for reliability, but slow and terrible ride - early to lifestyle double cab party but subtle, car-like inside, narrow.

L200: Series 4 minimum, but Series 5 is where to go - S 4 is the weird round one where they went full lifestyle, but wasn't quite there, where Series 5 is the bones of series 4 body made good. So 2015-on.

Rangers - as mentioned, 2018 is when they got really good,  but 2014 is alright for comfort and kit.

Amarok:  no insight on reliability, but they're comfy and ride well in V6 form.

X-Class - for 220 and 250 see Navara - the only real difference is the badge and the appearance of the dashboard, but things like the radio - dressed up to look Mercedes but actually the Nissan unit. Seriously poor value. The X350d is a different kettle of eels - the V6 is nice and it gains proper full-time 4Matic, but the interior is still sub-par for Mercedes and the money asked. Would it have killed them to use Merc seats? And change the awful cheap key and infotainment.

Only thing I can say in Navara's defence is the last one I drove (N Guard) with disc rear brakes and revisions was nicer than an X220 and had a sunroof. Mmm. Sunroof.

Fullback Cross is worth finding - 14 inch steering wheel makes it feel sportier than an L200 and the seats were "okay" - not great. But it has both Super-Select II full time/part time 4x4 /and/ a lockable rear diff (normally only fitted to basic L200s with part-time 4x4), it also looks cool with factory sports bar. But Fiat dealers charged double Mitsubishi rates for servicing (don't even ask about Iveco) and didn't have greasing prop and UJ checks on the ticklist.

For £12K I would start with Musso Sports, 2015 on. You might find a nice private owned one. But honestly after years of shopping for pickups, I've never seen anything for £12K cash that looked more sensible than accepting maintenance and wear would make it an economic write off after four years and leasing a new one a more appealing experience.

The time to buy used ones was two years ago getting ex-lease ones like my Fullback, big discounts then - but the market has gone to shit 😕

[Cookiesouwest]

12 hours ago, RichardK said:

Hilux - the higher output 3.0 is okay, but the rest couldn't pull the wool off a balding sheep. For that level of crudity the D-Max is better but at that age the only lifestyle those targeted was gamekeeping and logging.

L200 engine problems: look all of these up and every one has reported issues. Rangers blow headgaskets etc. too - so do Toyotas. The common theme isn't problems with engineering, it's British climate and attitudes to maintenance and prevention. Except for Navaras, they're just shit.

There's a 2009 Hilux over the road from me - lad wants £4K for it and it's got a messed up power steering line which has crippled it, but no idea what the rest is like. Too rich for my blood as a project but potentially worth repairing if I can find out what the rest is like.

Have you considered a Nissan Pathfinder? I forgot they existed and a discussion at work blew my mind discovering the newer Navara had a Pathfinder and it /wasn't/ as I'd suspected, an oversized stretched Qashqai/Infiniti (there is a Pathfinder on a monocoque, hence the confusion) - it's a bona fide chassis pickup-to-SUV beast like a Shogun Sport.

Yes I have considered a pathfinder. Slight worry thats its a Navarra with an SUV body though.

Just need to find one she can try.

[Cookiesouwest]

12 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

If comfort is an issue then the older L200 probably isn’t worth a look from my experience. My mum has a 2005 and the seats are awful, they’re about as comfortable as bus seats. I don’t find the driving position very nice, the seats are too low to the floor for such a tall vehicle. Ride is awful as well because of the leaf springs, it’s very bumpy when unladen. It’s also gutless, and the gear shift is miserable.

What it is good at is lugging shit around and towing things, which is what my mum bought it for.

I reckon any of the older generation of pickup trucks will be very similar, built as a tool more than a car, very utilitarian.

One of the pick-up derived SUV’s might be better, my Shogun sport is on coil springs at the back and it’s alright in terms of comfort, more supportive seats and more upright seating position. I had an old Hilux Surf a few years ago and that was ok too. That said they’re almost all as rusty as fuck now, it’s hard to find one with a decent chassis.

RE bad backs and cars, I can remember at least two customers with bad backs who both drove ancient Volvo estates on 200k+ miles and wanted to buy something newer but was still comfortable for their backs. Between them I tried three generations of CRV, 2 generations of Accord and the new generation HRV. The consensus was that nothing was as comfortable as the worn Volvo seats and no sales were made despite my time and effort... maybe take your mrs to see an old Volvo? 😅

She knows Volvo seats are super comfy. 

Sadly no amount of encouragement from me can get her to even consider a Volvo.

She seems to have a pathological hatred of the brand  Despite much squareness.

 

[Cookiesouwest]

11 hours ago, RichardK said:

Oh, and as a serial pickup obsessive - none of these will crack 30mpg unless you are only doing long drives. Even "my" 2019 Musso with a hardtop on - one of the quietest and most refined and aerodynamic pickups you'll get - struggled to better 36mpg and when it did it was when I commuted 160 miles a day in 50mph average roadworks for half the drive.

I have driven one pickup that cracked 40mpg - the Isuzu D-Max Utility manual, latest 1.9 161hp. They are very good, and good value in new price/cash terms for the commercial ones - but expensive for civvy spec and for all the love I've got for Isuzu, Ford has absolutely /nailed/ civilised pickups now.

The main option I'd look for with the budget at £20K mentioned once is an Amarok. They have great seats - and are refined too. V6 is probably not that cheap yet but 2.0 BiTDi is okay. Or a Fiat Fullback Cross.

£12K is probably the worst amount to spend on a double cab 4x4 pickup. Most will be shagged, there's still plenty of money to lose, and since the cheap PCPs and overstock deals went there's actually a lot of competition for them (for context my new Fullback 180 LX was £1000 down £199+VAT a month on 24 month 10kPa. If I could get that now I'd have one already).

There are only four pickups on sale new in the UK now:

Toyota Hilux - in 2.8 form really good, bit grim in 150hp form.

Isuzu D-Max - very, very good, but 1.9 sounds like it'll be weedy, still a bit agricultural in aspects but much improved and the AT35 is a beast. The old XTR ❤️

SsangYong Musso - this has evolved a bit; it's the strongest towing one by miles on weight capacity (D-Max chassis is stronger, 225kg nose weight too!) and it's also either the shortest, or the longest - the LWB Rhino has 1.7m load bed but leaf springs and ride quality suffers. The cab is HUGE and comfy - I did 10 hour drives in mine all the time - with ventilated heated seats, and double gaskets on doors and bonnets for low wind noise. Light steering and ride seems to vary with every example I've driven.

And the Ranger, which honestly is the best seller now - stole a good 10K of sales from the L200 after the 2018 facelift. They are almost faultless as a new pickup,  but the next generation is better and due real soon now, and will get the full-time 4x4 that's been absent from UK trucks since the Amarok and X-Class V6, and L200, left the market.

X-Classes are shit, by the way. So much Navara remains - you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in MB-Tex and stick a three-pointed star on it. Naturally used prices are strong because every status-challenged contractor wants a premium badge even if their labourer's Ranger is twice the refinement, tech and quality...

My BIL has a 2020 Ranger. Just been in for more warranty work. Both turbos!

He has the smaller engine variant.

He loves the car. Hates the reliability. This is the second time its been in for a turbo.

 

[Cookiesouwest]

The desire for a pick up truck, is similar to her desire for mk3 hyundai coupe she had when I met her.

She'd wanted one for years. Loved how they looked. Never sat in one.

Took her to view one. 30 seconds sat in the drivers seat and she was in excruciating pain. Took over a week before she could move without pain.

I suspect her desire for a pick up truck may end the same way.

She sat in a Mini Countryman on Saturday. The pain was instant. 

Seats are important.

[andyberg]

This ok???🤣🤣

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, RichardK said:

subtle, car-like inside, narrow.

What I like about the DMax is that all the ones I've driven have had a 1990 grey Corolla vibe on the inside. I appreciate that wouldn't appeal to those buying a pickup as a "lifestyle" choice. But loads of the flashy trucks have a very fake appearance inside, with leather seats that look more plastic than plastic does 

[warch]

4x4s and pickups are a tricky thing to buy, hence why brands like Landrover have such a bad reputation, people go out and buy the first one they see and then spend ages badmouthing it because that old Discovery they bought for five grand isn't cheap to run or reliable. Parts wear quicker on 4x4s, and are generally much more expensive, especially tyres, suspension and transmission components.  

Crew cab pickup design is optimised for the first owner experience, they aren't designed to last much over ten or twelve years (much like vans really). They can take high mileage and abuse, but often suffer engine/turbo/injector/ecu issues once they're well out of warranty. Chassis issues can affect most vehicles, not just Navaras, this is down to road salt and a fairly lightweight chassis design (most crewcabs aren't actually that heavy). Economy varies, the Hilux's I had did about 25-32mpg, the six speed L200 Warrior could manage an indicated 35-37mpg. They do drink diesel in daily use though.

I think the Hilux is probably the best built crewcab pickup, and slightly more comfortable (I've got long legs) than the L200, but I really liked the latter, especially the Warrior which had a dvd player and leather seats. Lots never actually ever go off road, so may have issues with the 4x4 systems due to lack of usage.    

  

[Cookiesouwest]

2 hours ago, andyberg said:

This ok???🤣🤣

How much ?

 

[andyberg]

Only came in for an MOT, can't see it being spinal friendly mind...

[gm]

JUMBUCK !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334191674771?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7Z0QlnSyTBW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=LKn5X0MqTxu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[andyberg]

How has no one thought of this?

Car based, check.

Chod, check.

Get one bought.

[Noel Tidybeard]

honda HR-V?

correct dna but just different enough from cr-v for less tears?

[Rust Collector]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

honda HR-V?

correct dna but just different enough from cr-v for less tears?

I don't think they'd be any good for someone with a bad back, both generations are a bit crashy in terms of ride quality and the seat padding isn't very generous for full Japanese economy car feel. Personally, I'd love a mk1!

[Cookiesouwest]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

honda HR-V?

correct dna but just different enough from cr-v for less tears?

She hated my mk1 hrv.

Mk2 is to small.

[Rod/b]

On 9/5/2022 at 7:01 AM, artdjones said:

No question, but the DMax is good, too. But don't bother with any of them if spinal comfort is an issue.

5 of those are Land Cruisers but hey…

[High Jetter]

I think Toyota knew their products.

[warch]

10 hours ago, High Jetter said:

I think Toyota knew their products.

I’m assuming that’s a spoof advert, all credit to Toyota if it isn’t.

[Rod/b]

4 hours ago, warch said:

I’m assuming that’s a spoof advert, all credit to Toyota if it isn’t.

It’s a spoof by Jack Hurley aka Loudribs.