Old Skool ABS diagnosing, the shiters way.

[sutty2006]

Well if it doesnt rain, it bloody pours. Putting the damage to the drivers side doors aside for a minute, the turdbo diesel carlton has struck an ABS fault heading to my parents yesterday.

 

I called into a mechanic I know whos runs his own independent renault garage since the mid 90s and hes lent me this

 

 

 a sykes pickevant diagnostics tester. A great piece of kit for the old chod in mind. However, it doesnt work. I cant get it to read anything. I did a bit of digging and got in touch with a serial carlton fondler who says the ABS system on carltons isnt connected through the diag port. BUMMER. 

 

So its back to basics then. Wheels off, unplug ABS sensors, check for resistance.

 

 

 

 

Checking for moisture on both sides, nothing on the passenger, small amount on the drivers side. No corrosion. Have now checked both front ABS sensors, both read 1.5ohm. Change to milivolts and get a small fluctuating reading from both sides. Back to resistance and check cable condition, no change in voltage. Weird. I seam to get the ABS activating when turning the wheel at low speed with brakes applied (ie, manouvering etc etc).

 

 

Rain has stopped play now. Going to check rear sensors next. Watch this space.

 

 

[sierraman]

If it’s a real swine to sort take the bulb out and run it as non ABS.

[NorthernMonkey]

I seam to get the ABS activating when turning the wheel at low speed with brakes applied (ie, manouvering etc etc).

 

Check carefully the condition, location and security of the toothed reluctor rings.

[Lacquer Peel]

Is the Carlton diesel's diagnostic port even connected to anything? It's an ancient fully mechanical diesel. Does it have some primitive emissions equipment?

[sutty2006]

Check carefully the condition, location and security of the toothed reluctor rings.

Rears were slightly dirty but not loose or damaged. Same on the rears resistance wise. 1.5 right, 1.4 left. Voltage from both when spun.

 

Fronts are harder to see but look ok, rusty, but not to the point of brokenness.

 

The diesel has no ECU for the engine, as it’s prehistoric dinosaur age only needs voltage to the stop solenoid.

 

There are some relays under the bonnet for abs. Suppose there’s the next thing to check.

[mercrocker]

If it’s a real swine to sort take the bulb out and run it as non ABS.

 

What's the score with doing that regarding MoT testing?   Do they test for a light-up and subsequent go-off-ness?

[clayts450]

I could do with borrowing one of those Sykes-Ronnie Pickerings for the 214 - has he got the Rover 1 pod in the box of tricks ?

[sierraman]

If it’s lit then yes but it’s at that age where it could quite easily not be fitted with ABS anyway. If the tester spots the ABS block he might twig on though.

[NorthernMonkey]

If it’s generally flagging up a fault when turning, then it suggests the issue is either the reluctor ring moving in relation to the sensor or possibly an intermittent break in one of the cables as it’s stretching. My money is still on the ring though.

The ex-ranting yoof S60 that’s currently in the possession of my F-I-L chucks up an ABS fault if he pulls of the driveway too swiftly whilst on full lock. It’s definitely the n/s front ring that’s rusted and become slightly out of tolerance but luckily for me, the Bosch system on the Volvo resets itself on start up so it’s a job for a quiet day, if ever one of those manifests itself.

[Rocket88]

If you pull the ABS relay, will that de-activate the system?

[sutty2006]

Right then. Rears cleaned up, took sensors off and cleaned them. Rebuilt.

 

 

N/s sensor looked dirty. have cleaned and refitted. So. road test. Have been round the block a few times to try and get the light to come on. No such luck. Still get abs firing when turning right at low speed when braking, but no light has come back on. I'm in two minds weather to strip the front down and replace the exciter rings, they are attatched to the disks and im not sure if theyre part of them or not.

 

 

 

[sierraman]

If you pull the ABS relay, will that de-activate the system?

It should do yes, it might still cause the light to glow though, a bit of tape or black paint on the build should rectify that. Good luck with getting the rings off without damaging them, is the ring and the sensor sitting square to one another?

[sutty2006]

Me being me, wants to fix the issue... not sweep it under the carpet and forget about it. Im getting closer, just need to do a bit more digging....maybe 6 foot worth

[Guest Hooli]

Have you bled the brakes lately? I had a Sierra of a similar age that developed a bubble in the ABS unit for no reason that caused it to trigger at low speeds.

[sutty2006]

Have you bled the brakes lately? I had a Sierra of a similar age that developed a bubble in the ABS unit for no reason that caused it to trigger at low speeds.

 

Interesting idea. Wouldnt that cause it to trigger all the time, not just when turning right? Plus, the way i see ABS triggering is an electrical current produced from the exciter ring, instead of a hydrolic/fluid issue...... interesting idea non the less.

[Guest Hooli]

I guess it depends where the bubble is. I never understood why either, but bleeding the system out fixed it. When I've had dodgy sensors (XJ40) I just got the light on over bumps or when turning, it never caused a false triggering.

 

Is there any diagnostics you can trigger within the system itself. Some systems that age could be made to flash codes with the ABS lamp to tell you which sensor etc was the fault.

[Pillock]

Depends what the signal is doing.... If one wheel signal is dropping out entirely when turning then the ABS has to pulse the brakes as that's exactly what a locked wheel looks like.

 

Doesn't always happen as sometimes the light will come on for other implausible signals which won't trigger the pump

[Guest Hooli]

This does suggest a wheel sensor too https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/carlton-abs-troubleshooting.4941/

[sutty2006]

This does suggest a wheel sensor too https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/carlton-abs-troubleshooting.4941/

I did find that thread and have a read. That’s one thing I’ve not done and checked for a short to earth. Next job is to have the front disks off and clean the front rings up

[Dippy]

If it’s lit then yes but it’s at that age where it could quite easily not be fitted with ABS anyway. If the tester spots the ABS block he might twig on though.

My 940 passed last year as PO had removed bulb but failed this year, after replacing bulb it was perm lit due to a faulty sensor. Cant believe lazy PO would not check basics before removing bulb.

[Stanky]

Is it as advanced* as my celica and there are some pins in the diagnostic port you can jump with a paperclip to get it into maintenance mode and flash codes at you with the ignition on? This helped me isolate the issue to a particular circuit (front passenger side) and fix it with a sensor off a different car?

 

Might help narrow down which corner is giving a signal out of tolerance so you can concentrate your efforts of that sensor/hub?

[Scruffy Bodger]

Is it as advanced* as my celica and there are some pins in the diagnostic port you can jump with a paperclip to get it into maintenance mode and flash codes at you with the ignition on? This helped me isolate the issue to a particular circuit (front passenger side) and fix it with a sensor off a different car?

 

Might help narrow down which corner is giving a signal out of tolerance so you can concentrate your efforts of that sensor/hub?

 

Possible depending on the system used? My 405 ABS is playing up at the mo but refusing to flash any codes at me when I earth the diagnostic port so I've ordered another ABS ECU for it.

 

http://www.topbuzz1.carenthusiasts.co.uk

 

Maybe worth a look?

[sutty2006]

Well the fault seams to have gone now. Have done about 40 miles of ABS light free driving. Alls I’ve done it clean the rear sensors up. This was possibly the issue. Only time will tell. Once it’s been sorted for the damage that was done I’ll treat it to new front disks n pads and clean the front rings up too. Top fix. A free one! Fingers crossed.

[sutty2006]

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[dieselnutjob]

I could do with borrowing one of those Sykes-Ronnie Pickerings for the 214 - has he got the Rover 1 pod in the box of tricks ?

 

what's up with the 214?

does it have a 16 pin diagnostic port or a round three pin connector under the bonnet?

given that you have two Rovers have you considered a pscan?