bangernomics, where do you draw the line?

[DaveDorson]

So about this time last year, I did a thing.  I saw a 307 HDI on this forum and thought, "I fancy that".  Did a purchase, and it's been a damn fine steed for the year.

Yesterday, it went through the MOT again.

 

It failed on the brake lights not working (I got them to change the switch as they had it there), with advisories for the following:

Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):

• Nearside Rear Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Offside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Front Play in steering rack inner joint(s) both inner rack joints have slight play ()
• Front Headlamp has a product on the lens but not seriously reducing light output both headlamps (4.1.4 ()
• Nearside Front wheel arch lining broken and slightly insecure but not fouling with any other component.

Following them fixing the brake light switch (it's been temperamental for a bit, I really should have just done it when it tripped the ABS Sensor) it's now got an MOT again.

 

So, rear beam bushes, track rods, drop links and restore the headlights a bit.

 

The arch is a result of someone nudging into me when (reversing in traffic!) and clipping the bumper, it knocked the arch liner out and I failed to notice until it flapped into the front wheel.  I'll get a used one.

 

I'm playing cam belt roulette.  It's £50 trade for a kit for it, and some time fitting.  As far as cam belts go these aren't hard to do.

 

 

Now those who pay close attention, will know that it's got a bit of a cough and smoke on start up, which I know is likely the injector seals, but because daily and short MOT, I'd not bothered sorting that.  Suppose I will do now.

 

Now I've got a car that I can make drive like new for less than £100 in parts on the suspension, will do the cam belt and injector seals (I've got seals on the shelf) and I can do the work myself.

 

But, I paid £200 and spent a bit on odds and sods.. it's been MEGAVALU, but should I really throw more money into the car?, it sort of flies in the face of doing bangernomics.

 

That said, I look at what it'll cost me to have something as cheap to run and comfortable, and frankly, it seems cheap to fix.

 

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

.... I've got a car that I can make drive like new for less than £100 in parts on the suspension, will do the cam belt and injector seals (I've got seals on the shelf) and I can do the work myself.

 

But, I paid £200 and spent a bit on odds and sods.. it's been MEGAVALU, but should I really throw more money into the car?, it sort of flies in the face of doing bangernomics.

 

Yes, but if you don't do the work on it, how much more expensive would it become to run as things become even more worn?

[Kiltox]

Sierraman will be along in a sec to tell you about it’s new life as a washing machine

 

I say fix the injector seals first - to make sure it’s not actually something worse and more expensive - and go from there. If confident the engine isn’t the usual hand grenade and you like it - fix it up.

 

“Bangernomics” - ie bin it when it gives you a bill and buy another - is pretty hardcore I reckon. I wouldn’t be arsed with the hassle of constantly hunting for a daily driver. Nothing wrong with keeping a shed in good order, IMO.

[DaveDorson]

Sierraman will be along in a sec to tell you about it’s new life as a washing machine

 

I say fix the injector seals first - to make sure it’s not actually something worse and more expensive - and go from there. If confident the engine isn’t the usual hand grenade and you like it - fix it up.

 

it'd had a turbo just before I got it, done properly.

 

And it's done a few miles since I picked it up too

[barefoot]

bangernomics, where do you draw the line?

 

There is no line.

[sierraman]

You have to have a general look at it. If it’s just a few jobs then put it right, once you are into involved stuff like clutches and major components wearing out or stuff you can’t live with like bad leaks or the prospect of it wanting a lot of welding then sack it off. Last couple of cars I sacked off wanted some coin spending on a clutch and the injectors were giving trouble so major expense for both so sacked them off while they were a going concern.

 

I am quite a hard line Bangernomics man, of it starts showing major expense it will get baled, I’m not usually very sentimental. But last few cars I had for around a year and flogged then for more than what I paid and didn’t spend out on them.

[DaveDorson]

Yes, but if you don't do the work on it, how much more expensive would it become to run as things become even more worn?

 

Yeah, to be fair all it really needs is maintenance.

 

Bushes and joints wear out with age and miles.

 

I think I should just crack on and to the stuff over the odd weekend, once I've done the injector seals

[Kiltox]

it'd had a turbo just before I got it, done properly.

 

And it's done a few miles since I picked it up too

The seals are literally a few pence plus some time, right? That’s why I’d start there.

[SierraMikeHotel]

In before Sierraman

 

If it were me, I'd be moving it on - however it sounds like you're capable of doing the work yourself (which I wouldn't be).

 

If you like the car and you don't mind putting the time into it, I'd say get it done and enjoy it for another year.

 

If you don't fancy it, there are some ridiculously cheap cars around now.

 

EDIT: bumhats, kiltox and sierraman both beat me to it!

[DaveDorson]

The seals are literally a few pence plus some time, right? That’s why I’d start there.

 

Seals are sat on the shelf at the moment. 

 

Guess I'll attack that at the weekend and see what's what.

[Kiltox]

Way I look at those items is that they’re just wear and tear, any older car with some miles on is going to suffer from them. Your replacement might start clonking about in a couple of weeks.

[sierraman]

The seals aren’t too much of a bastard of a job assuming the injectors aren’t seized in.

 

It’s not always down to ability, it’s down to whether you want to spend a weekend taking a gearbox out or whether you’d sooner sink your time into something else.

 

I’ve absolutely no doubt my hardline approach with cars flys in the face of Autoshite but it’s horses for courses.

[The_Equalizer]

Martin Buckley once said something to the effect of "don't buy yourself work". Then again this is Autoshite.

[New POD]

So about this time last year, I did a thing. I saw a 307 HDI on this forum and thought, "I fancy that". Did a purchase, and it's been a damn fine steed for the year.

Yesterday, it went through the MOT again.

 

It failed on the brake lights not working (I got them to change the switch as they had it there), with advisories for the following: Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):

• Nearside Rear Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Offside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Front Play in steering rack inner joint(s) both inner rack joints have slight play ()
• Front Headlamp has a product on the lens but not seriously reducing light output both headlamps (4.1.4 ()
• Nearside Front wheel arch lining broken and slightly insecure but not fouling with any other component.

Following them fixing the brake light switch (it's been temperamental for a bit, I really should have just done it when it tripped the ABS Sensor) it's now got an MOT again.

 

So, rear beam bushes, track rods, drop links and restore the headlights a bit.

 

The arch is a result of someone nudging into me when (reversing in traffic!) and clipping the bumper, it knocked the arch liner out and I failed to notice until it flapped into the front wheel. I'll get a used one.

 

I'm playing cam belt roulette. It's £50 trade for a kit for it, and some time fitting. As far as cam belts go these aren't hard to do.

 

 

Now those who pay close attention, will know that it's got a bit of a cough and smoke on start up, which I know is likely the injector seals, but because daily and short MOT, I'd not bothered sorting that. Suppose I will do now.

 

Now I've got a car that I can make drive like new for less than £100 in parts on the suspension, will do the cam belt and injector seals (I've got seals on the shelf) and I can do the work myself.

 

But, I paid £200 and spent a bit on odds and sods.. it's been MEGAVALU, but should I really throw more money into the car?, it sort of flies in the face of doing bangernomics.

 

That said, I look at what it'll cost me to have something as cheap to run and comfortable, and frankly, it seems cheap to fix.

Just work out the cost per mile. I work on the principle that if repairs cost less than £500 a year that is 2.5 p a mile for me.

I use my car mostly for business use. If you think about the HMRCs 45p/25p a mile tax free expences figure, (<10K\>10k 20p is fuel, Insurance and tax work out at 3p a mile so for the first 10k I'm seeing 20p tax free. After that I'm breaking even.

I ignore the actual value of the car. I assume that is gone.

I think if a car is generally reliable, and there's nothing to suggest that is won't survive another year, it's much less risk to spend money on it.

 

On the other hand, if you don't do lots of miles, then frequent swapping and changing might be better from a pence per mile point of view.

[panhard65]

It's got the mot so I would just run it for a year and see how it goes. None of the advisories are really going to cause much trouble. I have seen some Pug's with axle advisories going back years and never getting any worse. There is no point flogging it either as you won't get a lot for it and if you are only doing about 10k a year it should do one more with very little expence. Knowing when to quit is hard but spending maybe upto 2 hundred a year on maintenance is reasonable

[lesapandre]

It's got the mot so I would just run it for a year and see how it goes. None of the advisories are really going to cause much trouble. I have seen some Pug's with axle advisories going back years and never getting any worse. There is no point flogging it either as you won't get a lot for it and if you are only doing about 10k a year it should do one more with very little expence. Knowing when to quit is hard but spending maybe upto 2 hundred a year on maintenance is reasonable

I'd do that I have a whole collection of 'marginal cars'. Just service it - oil where it needs it and drive (attending to any safety needs) Gaffer tape, superglue, WD40, silicone spray, jubillee clips and superglue keep my chod on the road mostly...along with brake pads and the odd driveshaft. Pennies to run.

[Captain Furious]

£100 is a no brainer for a car that’s got a proven record, especially as it’s already got another years ticket on it, just do it. Buying another car for £200 is a lottery at best.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Martin Buckley once said something to the effect of "don't buy yourself work".....

 

This, from a fella who owns a Lancia Gamma Coupé and possibly a Fiat 130.....

[dozeydustman]

I am considering drawing the line with the Saab now. It's getting to the point where I doubt it'll pass the next MoT due to emissions, and sorting the fuelling and exhaust system out is going to cost more than getting another car that will probably last another 2-3 years. I don't get many chances to give the car a decent long run now, so TBH having a diesel is sort of being wasted

 

If I can get the parts I need to sort its smoking out (MAF, MAP and swirl flap delete) which aren't guaranteed to succeed in solving the problem for less than a WBOD then I feel the car will soon be made into fridge freezers. Unless someone on here has a decent engine for it.

[DaveDorson]

Just work out the cost per mile. I work on the principle that if repairs cost less than £500 a year that is 2.5 p a mile for me.

I use my car mostly for business use. If you think about the HMRCs 45p/25p a mile tax free expences figure, (<10K\>10k 20p is fuel, Insurance and tax work out at 3p a mile so for the first 10k I'm seeing 20p tax free. After that I'm breaking even.

I ignore the actual value of the car. I assume that is gone.

I think if a car is generally reliable, and there's nothing to suggest that is won't survive another year, it's much less risk to spend money on it.

 

On the other hand, if you don't do lots of miles, then frequent swapping and changing might be better from a pence per mile point of view.

 

 

Ignoring fuel, tax, insurance (as I'd have to pay them on any car), it's cost me 0.039p per mile or there abouts.

 

It's really is about the cheapest car I've ever had to run in my life.

[AMC Rebel]

I'd keep it - wouldn't bother with the cam belt etc.

Several of my advisories on various cars have cured themselves.

 

And I always liked that car

[The_Equalizer]

 

This, from a fella who owns a Lancia Gamma Coupé and possibly a Fiat 130.....

 

Might possibly have been on reflection? I still think it's a fair comment.

[sierraman]

He had a Fiat 130 saloon didn’t he?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

He had a Fiat 130 saloon didn’t he?

 

Was it a saloon? Thought it was a Coupé....

[UltraWomble]

bangernomics, where do you draw the line?

 

There is no line.

 

This.

 

The wifes C8 is 12 years old. Its now getting to a point where things are getting a bit ropey. Handbrake keeps going tits up, coolant leak from the rad, gettng ready for another timing belt, some of the electrics dont work  ( you dont dare dead lock the car as you wont open the passenger door again).

Makes some interesting clonks from the rear suspension. But. I can either fix the things that need fixing and just carry on with it or bin it off and pay £ARMLEG&BOLLOCK for another newish blandwagon.

 

Personally Im happy keeping the old bus. The missus however wants something new and shiny.

[chaseracer]

 

This, from a fella who owns a Lancia Gamma Coupé and possibly a Fiat 130.....

 

And a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud...!

[DaveDorson]

I'd keep it - wouldn't bother with the cam belt etc.

Several of my advisories on various cars have cured themselves.

 

And I always liked that car

 

Because it really is so cheap to run, I think I will end up keeping it.

 

I'll inspect the cam belt, if it needs it, I'll do it, they're easy enough to do, and it takes the worry off it doing that when I need it.

 

it's doing really well, smoke and clunks aside.

[beko1987]

I sacked the blue laguna off because the pending issues were mounting up, and the unknown were too great. I don't mind lobbing ball joints, brake stuff, even easily bolted on and off ebay/ecp parts on cheap crap, but it got to the stage where:

 

Oil leak from the rocker cover was significant. Common 2.2dci issue, rocker cover gasket isn't expensive. However that gasket is also shared with the plastic inlet manifold gasket (one piece), and the inlet manifold has a habit of cracking, which one only finds after stripping the top of the engine off...

 

Then it hilariously started blowing from 2 injectors. Used injectors were reasonable but not cheap, but then the fun of willthey/won't they of removing 120,000 mile injectors from a diesel engine made it too much of a gamble.

 

Auto box started being harsh at changing. SiC has proven its not a massive tricky job, but if the fluid is too past it, what protective shit would I flush out, plus the cost of the fluid.

 

Off to the bridge it went and enter stage left NuLaguna!

 

NuLaguna was helped massively with a week of parts swapping from Old Laguna, but now the clutch doesn't always return after heavy clutch use (parking, crawling traffic etc). Drives fine, doesn't do it in usual driving so it's being ignored until it breaks or I get rid of the car naturally.

 

I could fix it, but that involves dropping the gearbox to get at the slave cylinder apparently.

 

Dropping the gearbox will reveal fuck knows what with the dual mass flywheel, so again, it's being ignored. I happily fitted new steering components and a windscreen to it over the summer though as it made it nicer* to drive...

 

I'm not a bangernomics person, but there is a definite line to draw. Tbh I'm entering bangernomics now with this car as it'll be replaced next year when I get my bonus, so once the fog light bulb is replaced and an mot obtained it'll just be driven bar anything urgent falling off! It's due an oil change but I did one 8k ago, it doesn't seem too worth it since it'll last the winter on the oil it has

[Jazoli]

I tend to get rid of my cars when I feel a problem coming, it's probably irrational as four of the last five I've sold in the last three years have recent mot's, although the mk2 focus I sold to my manager shit its engine after four months of his ownership and I'd spent loads on preventative maintenance for it, so maybe my gut feeling was right.

 

I tend to buy for around a grand, service them and replace any obvious things that need doing then run them for 12-18months then get rid, I am a bit anal though as everything has to work and I can't abide squeeks or rattles, the rear washer pump is u/s on the new avensis, it'll bug me until I get a new one fitted even though I'll hardly ever use it.

 

I think it is boredom more than anything at times, I do usually buy well and I've not had to scrap one yet and I've not taken a loss for a long time, although I've probably just jinxed myself as I've just bought a new one

[sierraman]

No that’s absolutely the way to do it. I think when you’ve been at this a while you get a sixth sense for when they will shit themselves imminently.