invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Christine]

You can still buy them

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, Christine said:

They're called blue dots...started in the 30's... Supposed to contrast with red light so they're.   more visible in poor conditions...how legal? No idea.

 

3 minutes ago, Christine said:

You can still buy them

oh yes I remember seeing those somewhere!, not sure if on youtube or on here!, for some reason I thought they were a very dark red, so I never thought about them being those blue dots!

Thanks  

[Mr Pastry]

deleted!

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The matt black MM was worth the money for the engine and ancillaries. I'd imagine the new owner will pull the lump and scrap the rest. They explained it needs resto.

The Visa above looks great value and would leave you money in the kitty for ongoing resto work, which a 40+ year old car will always need. 

[Mr Pastry]

This one   /www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1166516 but its 1986.

[Mally]

58 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

The matt black MM was worth the money for the engine and ancillaries. I'd imagine the new owner will pull the lump and scrap the rest. They explained it needs resto.

 

They will likely break it, they ask mega money for second hand parts, because 'original OE innit'.

Might be, might not, but if it is it,s 50 years old.

Parts are quite cheap, except it's £83 for the indicator switch that I need because the bulbs fell off.

[Mrs6C]

That Visa is a 10E and the only one known so far to the Citroen Visa Forum. More details here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/visaforum/how-many-uk-visa-are-left-t1021.html#p7979

It's a nice car and that's a good price to buy it, but as it's not ULEZ-friendly, sadly it is probably not ideal for the intended application here.

 

 

[1970mgb]

The fact that the black Minor(even though it's no longer for sale) is advertised with a "race cam" scares me. Generally "race cam" and "street driving" don't play so nicely since true racing cams usually like to be wound way up and are pretty gutless if not.

A hot street cam can be a nice addition, but then depending on the specific grind some of those are fairly high strung also. The popular "street performance" grind for B series engines(APT VP-12, Delta D9 in the US, Piper 285 and a few others in the UK) comes into its own around ~2-3K RPMs(depending on how you time it) but is pretty sluggish below that. It's very driveable, especially with a low 1st gear, but I don't know how much I'd want something similar in a Mogie mostly driven in city congestion.

I'd like to throw a cam in the Marina(at the same time as some other work) but am leaning toward something a bit less aggressive(APT VP-11, Delta KB, Piper 270) as I don't know how much the auto will even let the other get into its power band.

[LightBulbFun]

so this photo popped up on flicker recently 

https://flic.kr/p/2i3fYcN

and the reason I mention it, is because supposedly the photo was taken in 1979

but its interesting to note the wing mirror of the Model 70 pictured

because that's something iv been trying to nail down for a while now,

see most Model 70's have wing mounted mirrors like so 

sometimes you would find double wing mirrors, especially I noticed on later Model 70's

 

but I noticed that on a lot of late Model 70's instead of having wing mounted mirrors, they have door mounted mirrors as seen in the first pic

and I have been wondering/trying to figure out if it was a late production change, or just over time those Model 70's gained different wing mirrors (especially as I have noticed earlier Model 70's that defo had wing mirrors in the past, ended their days with door mounted mirrors)

the latest Model 70 I can find with normal wing mirrors is VJN960S 

 

if the first picture is from 1979, then there's a good chance that Model 70 probably had them from new, (especially as its a Post March 1976 going by the large speedo, so would've only been about 3 years old at the oldest) sadly no reg is visible, but I do wonder if it really was a late production change, or was it an adaptability thing, ie they fitted door mounted mirrors for that user or type of user etc

also worth noting UOI4719 also had door mounted mirrors, and it would of only been about 2 years old in this picture

it would be interesting to know if anyone recognises where the door mounted mirrors are from might give us some clues!  

(I also wonder about the change from single to dual wing mirrors, dual wing mirrors was an option even before the Model 70, but they where seemingly fitted on a case by case basis, with most vehicles having a single wing mirror and then it seems like later in the Model 70 production, they gained Dual wing mirrors by default seemingly, I wonder when did dual wing mirrors become mandatory in the UK?)

it would be interesting to inspect one of these door mounted mirror Model 70's and see if there's any evidence in the wings of patching where there was once a wing mirror or not!

[MorrisItalSLX]

As all of the door mirrored examples have the same type of mirror fitted And would imagine they were factory fitted. If they were added on after the fact then it would be highly unlikely that they would all have the same type of mirrors fitted.

(Also, Page 100!)

[Mrs6C]

A century of pages, just before we finish off this decade...

[egg]

And the award for keeping his/her thread on the front page goes to....

LBF!

I look forward to seeing you drive around in the big smoke next year. Take it up the Strand or down Park Lane to really annoy the Lambo crowd! (Who will be driving slower than you anyway)

[mrbenn]

100 pages! Good work LBF, and congrats on some solid content in here ?

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

As all of the door mirrored examples have the same type of mirror fitted And would imagine they were factory fitted. If they were added on after the fact then it would be highly unlikely that they would all have the same type of mirrors fitted.

(Also, Page 100!)

thats an interesting point because I have noticed a couple other mirror types

for example on WOO848S (although WOO848S is a mystery in its own right!)

although it looks like WOO may have had black mirrors in the past

 

TPE409S has the silver mirrors too

which it had in service, pic from 1995 IIRC

 TPE232S is also pictured with said silver door mirrors (dont think this one is is a survivor sadly)

and so is WVW285S (again not a survivor i dont think sadly)

and then TPE222S which is a Full house on mirrors LOL, featuring both Dual wing mirrors, one of which is from a Model 67, and door mounted mirrors!

 

I just noticed you can't tell what mirror is which from the behind as both the black and silver type have a black bezel

for example see these alternate views of UOI and WVW

 

(to add to the fun, doors where swapped around quite a lot, and its actually rare to find a Model 70 with matching doors, im pretty sure even REV has a door from an AC!)

but again notice that these are all late Model 70's 

 

what I really need is some factory pictures or such from 1977 or 1978 that would tell me once and for all what's what!

like this picture, but about 30 years later!

 

[LightBulbFun]

36 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

A century of pages, just before we finish off this decade...

 

 

32 minutes ago, egg said:

And the award for keeping his/her thread on the front page goes to....

LBF!

I look forward to seeing you drive around in the big smoke next year. Take it up the Strand or down Park Lane to really annoy the Lambo crowd! (Who will be driving slower than you anyway)

 

 

30 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

100 pages! Good work LBF, and congrats on some solid content in here ?

 

indeed 100 pages! I think a woo! is in order  

its amazing how far its all come!, for example from thinking that no Private Model 70's existed to me ending up owning one! and everything in between! (would be fun at some point in time if I can get Sacha Baron Cohen to sign REV for the ultimate LOLs  )

like finding what the first Production Model 70's where and some of the Prototypes!, and the owners who we have been able to help out with their own vehicles  

 

many thanks to all those that have contributed and helped on my endless quest to research and find out more about the british invalid vehicle!

 

indeed I very much look forward to running around London in REV, and the rest of the UK! i'll definitely make sure to grab plenty of pics!

(ill probably end up pulling more lateral G's in REV then any of the Lambo crowd will ever do in their cars!  )

(and yeah I had hoped the thread would hit 100 pages before new years, figured it would be fitting!)

[somewhatfoolish]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

(I also wonder about the change from single to dual wing mirrors, dual wing mirrors was an option even before the Model 70, but they where seemingly fitted on a case by case basis, with most vehicles having a single wing mirror and then it seems like later in the Model 70 production, they gained Dual wing mirrors by default seemingly, I wonder when did dual wing mirrors become mandatory in the UK?)

it would be interesting to inspect one of these door mounted mirror Model 70's and see if there's any evidence in the wings of patching where there was once a wing mirror or not!

2010

[LightBulbFun]

28 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

2010

oh wow that's surprisingly recent!

I do notice that UAR977S or UAR978S (I need to get in contact with ian hellings and figure out exactly which one it is, also want to get in contact with ian hellings because of all the invalid vehicles he owns!)

has a single wing mirror, however that ones been through a restoration, so it sort of nullifies its entry, as it could of easily lost its second mirror during the restoration or what have you

(and also why I did not include WOO in my first post bout the mirrors as that one might be XEV87S)

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

if I won the lottery......

 

 

 

 

 

sorry what was the question again?

 

17 minutes ago, HMC said:

What’s the story with all the street parked ones?

im not 100% sure, but I suspect on the street was an approved repairer or such, and that's where the Approved repairer simply parked up Model 70's that were in for servicing repair or where surplus to requirements and the such like

especially going by the description/title of the photos, (taken in 1993 apparently)

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-unusual-sight-of-a-line-up-of-three-wheeled-ac-thundersley-invalid-55208476.html

still a pretty unusual but very cool sight!, I wonder if something happened at the AR that forced them to park them all on the street, or if they just always parked em on the street?

[JimH]

There doesn’t appear to have been a mention of The Comic Strip Presents: Dirty Movie so far.

It isn’t but there is some hardcore Type 70 action in it.

[Mrs6C]

Here is a Christmas present(ation) for you...

Southsea Driveby 1983

Featuring VOO 623L, a 1972 Invacar, most likely maintained and serviced by...

George Hodges Ltd...

Which was as a motorcycle dealer and Invacar Service Agent with a workshop at The Forge, 2A Paulsgrove Road, Portsmouth. It set up in 1925...

 

... and closed in 1999. However, note the Disabled bay in front of no. 2!

A very Happy Christmas to you and yours!

 

[LightBulbFun]

8 hours ago, JimH said:

There doesn’t appear to have been a mention of The Comic Strip Presents: Dirty Movie so far.

It isn’t but there is some hardcore Type 70 action in it.

Page 72 Im aware of one  https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-16th-lesson-had-mum-wants-a-car/?do=findComment&comment=1866634

knew about for a long time, just never knew which one it was exactly or which "episode" or such it was featured in, as the image on the IMCDB, is postage size stamped, but thankfully @busmansholiday was able to tell me where to find it so I did  

and it was OVW418P (fun fact OVW480P, the last P reg Invacar Model 70 does survive ) 

AFAIK its the only Model 70 featured? but id be happy to be proven wrong!  

5 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Here is a Christmas present(ation) for you...

Southsea Driveby 1983

Featuring VOO 623L, a 1972 Invacar, most likely maintained and serviced by...

George Hodges Ltd...

Which was as a motorcycle dealer and Invacar Service Agent with a workshop at The Forge, 2A Paulsgrove Road, Portsmouth. It set up in 1925...

 

... and closed in 1999. However, note the Disabled bay in front of no. 2!

A very Happy Christmas to you and yours!

 

oh very cool! I knew of the clip/VOO623L

https://autoshite.com/topic/37742-southsea-spottages-1983-and-trolley-buses/?tab=comments#comment-1877581

(as noted, VOO-L is one of the last Model 70 blocks to feature white on black plates. the block right after it is the WHK-L block and I know of WHK372L which has black on white period plates, its actually the only Model 70 I know of with plastic raised digit plates, that where not fitted after entering preservation, although as I also mentioned WHK372L might not be WHK372L, so maybe when AR shenanigans happened in the 1980s or 1990s they happened to spec raised digit plates for some reason? if you could still get them that late...)

but i never realised it was most likely serviced by the same garage thats shown in the 1993 pictures

thats pretty cool  and nice to know who the garage was! I didn't know until now, im not too surprised they closed down in 1999, as that would of been towards the end of the Invalid vehicle scheme so where probably losing too much work to keep going sadly 

Thank you and a Merry christmas to you and everyone else!  

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

@LightBulbFun that's what a "buff" log book looked light.

Ohh very interesting thanks for the heads up

its interesting how Type of Body is blank, I guess they just took that from the taxation class as "tricycle" is fairly self descriptive

but something like an invacar would be "taxation class: disabled" "Type of body: invalid vehicle" since the disable taxation class could also apply to something like a normal saloon car say an adapted morris minor

(no space for wheel plan, unless that went into the 2nd box next to Type of body or such?)

its also interesting to see revenue weight is done in Tons Cwt Lbs I wonder if this is where the 410Kg thing comes from if the weight of 896Lbs was just rounded up to 410kg rather then an exact conversion from Lbs to Kg

I assume the change from Tons/Cwt/Lbs to Kg happened with the introduction of the V5?

it would be very interesting to see the Buff Log book of a Model 70!

(as a side curiosity I wonder what would happen if you exceeded more than 8 keeper changes or such?)

[Mr Pastry]

21 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Ohh very interesting thanks for the heads up

its interesting how Type of Body is blank, I guess they just took that from the taxation class as "tricycle" is fairly self descriptive

but something like an invacar would be "taxation class: disabled" "Type of body: invalid vehicle" since the disable taxation class could also apply to something like a normal saloon car say an adapted morris minor

(no space for wheel plan, unless that went into the 2nd box next to Type of body or such?)

i(as a side curiosity I wonder what would happen if you exceeded more than 8 keeper changes or such?)

If you look on the left hand page it is stamped Continuation Book, which means that there was another one issued before it,so the first keeper shown might actually be number 9.....,

The way the vehicle details were entered on these was not very consistent and probably depended largely on how the application form for first registration was filled in, and that might also have had errors and omissions.....not everybody was an expert, even in those days.  It was just people in offices doing a job, and sometimes they got it wrong.  So don't read too much into it, or lose any sleep over it!

[Mr Pastry]

Occasionally you find one where it says "Propelled by:  ICE"  rather than petrol , meaning internal combustion engine.  

[plasticvandan]

I've got the original buff logbook for my 1954 Ariel (which being the original is actually buff (cardboard colour!) and that obviously says bicycle,but it had a sidecar on originally,so has sidecar bicycle at the top which was crossed out in red pen when it was took off,as sidecar outfits paid more tax.

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

If you look on the left hand page it is stamped Continuation Book, which means that there was another one issued before it,so the first keeper shown might actually be number 9.....,

The way the vehicle details were entered on these was not very consistent and probably depended largely on how the application form for first registration was filled in, and that might also have had errors and omissions.....not everybody was an expert, even in those days.  It was just people in offices doing a job, and sometimes they got it wrong.  So don't read too much into it, or lose any sleep over it!

interesting  

yeah I know its not an exact science at times, but I at least still find it quite interesting, and interesting to at least try and make some sense of

esp as it ties into some unknowns in my invalid vehicle research im still trying to figure out!

4 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

I've got the original buff logbook for my 1954 Ariel (which being the original is actually buff (cardboard colour!) and that obviously says bicycle,but it had a sidecar on originally,so has sidecar bicycle at the top which was crossed out in red pen when it was took off,as sidecar outfits paid more tax.

interesting I noticed that moped with the early V5 I talked about was also taxation class "bicycle" which is interesting since bicycles or well pedal cycles! dont pay tax and are not even road registered!

obviously im guessing it refers to what we would call a Moped these days or such or those mopeds with pedal assistance?

[plasticvandan]

Bicycle is the tax class for any two wheeled motorised vehicle,essentially the wheel plan.so even a 1000cc Brough Superior would have been bicycle,of course,they are historic vehicle now on the v5c.

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, plasticvandan said:

Bicycle is the tax class for any two wheeled motorised vehicle,essentially the wheel plan.so even a 1000cc Brough Superior would have been bicycle,of course,they are historic vehicle now on the v5c.

interesting  

I noticed even on later V5s there was no place for a wheel plan, as you and as I mentioned, I imagine wheel plan was assumed from the taxation class

unless it was specifically stated in the type of Body or Model/Type, (as seen on REV where it says "3-wheel invalid vehicle")

until wheel plan became its own entry on the V5, at which point again I assume they used the body type to automatically assume the wheel plan

"ok this Morris Minor is Body type: Saloon so will be a 2 axle rigid body"

where as a Model 70 you cant assume the wheel plan from the body type, since an Invalid vehicle could be any number of wheels, unless it was specifically stated like with REV

hence why TPA and such have Wheel plan down as Not recorded I imagine, (since TPA was probably originally just registered as an invalid vehicle without any wheel plan being stated) but id not be surprised if the system did still assume at some point hence why you do get some Model 70's that are down as 2 axle rigid body

 

[overrun]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Occasionally you find one where it says "Propelled by:  ICE"  rather than petrol , meaning internal combustion engine.  

And just as fast, if we are talking Invacar’s.

L O L

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, overrun said:

And just as fast, if we are talking Invacar’s.

L O L

Ya wont be laughing when I strap you mad max style to the front of REV and pull an 82Mph J turn