invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Talbot]

7 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

or just bloody determined?

That may be true, but you've not had ignition failure while out on the road.  or a burst brake line, or a lump of crap in the carburettor, or a ball-joint fail, or any one of a dozen of other relatively minor failures that will definitely put an end to the journey you are making, and if it happens at the wrong time, may put an end to the vehicle.  Had any of these happened you might well not be in the same situation you are now.  I (and numerous other members I am sure) have had every one of these and countless more happen while driving "older" vehicles on the road.  It absolutely makes you reconsider exactly what you're trying to do when you're sat in the car, broken down at the side of the road in the pissing rain.  Even just a blown fuse for the wiper that means you can no longer see properly on a winding road is a massive arse.  You've been lucky.

As for the safety aspect.. clearly there is no telling you that these things are not in any way even reasonable for use on the road.  Even back in the 1970s, 410kg would be smashed to fiberglass splinters by a contemporary medium/large car that had become errant across the centre white line.  No amount of fiddling about with guards, re-routing fuel lines, bits of bracketry for the engine or any of what's been mentioned will make one iota of difference when you're faced with 1.something tonnes of steel headed for you at anything more than walking pace.  An invacar is an unstable basis for mobility in the first place, made all the more vulnerable by being made of GRP.  Why?  Because it simply does not adsorb energy and deform in the same way that steel will.

I hope you never find this out firsthand.

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, Talbot said:

That may be true, but you've not had ignition failure while out on the road.  or a burst brake line, or a lump of crap in the carburettor, or a ball-joint fail, or any one of a dozen of other relatively minor failures that will definitely put an end to the journey you are making, and if it happens at the wrong time, may put an end to the vehicle.  Had any of these happened you might well not be in the same situation you are now.  I (and numerous other members I am sure) have had every one of these and countless more happen while driving "older" vehicles on the road.  It absolutely makes you reconsider exactly what you're trying to do when you're sat in the car, broken down at the side of the road in the pissing rain.  Even just a blown fuse for the wiper that means you can no longer see properly on a winding road is a massive arse.  You've been lucky.

but any of that could happen to any vehicle of any age, I have seen all sorts of vehicles on these pages have those issues, broken down on the side of the road, both old and new! I dont see how that would be any fault of me having an Invacar specifically?

and on that note, again I will point out, that given what people say the Invacar is, and given that it is a 50 year old vehicle at this point, its been shocking reliable, there have been at least 3 Model 70's in regular use on this forum over the past 7 years and of the few major breakdowns that have occurred, most of those where down to user negligence, specifically not replacing an aged CVT drive belt, basically the invacar version of cam-belt roulette  , and having read reports and spoken to people, from what recovery drivers and users of these vehicles said back in the day about their issues, it was mainly just, Condensors, throttle cables and drive-belts 

On 01/06/2019 at 09:19, Joey spud said:

No story behind it it was just papped at the road side.

I was talking with a retired Patrol who remembers these back in the day and he recalls they were sods for snapping their throttle cables and shreading the drive belt and he kept a set of points and a condenser in his van stock as condenser failure / pitted points was another common cause for a fail to proceed.

Oh and clouting objects and bending the steering arm would restrict their ability to turn left. ?

its not like I have not been broken down on the side of the M25 before now

but thats what keeping your phone charged and having a good breakdown service provider is for  

and as I posted on the previous page, despite all the chatter, a year ago, that when I encounter my first major mechanical issue I would be snookered, I was able to then fix the issue, and drive 300 miles to kidderminister and back  

[High Jetter]

I was going to mention that, en route to Flowers Farm, methinks. Yes, it might not be that safe. Maybe foolhardy. But it's yours, and you can, and you want to use it. 

My take, FWIW, is that Dez knows the pros, and some cons in practise, others in theory. His choice, his car, his life (which hopefully will continue for many years to come).

[Dick Cheeseburger]

1 minute ago, High Jetter said:

I was going to mention that, en route to Flowers Farm, methinks. Yes, it might not be that safe. Maybe foolhardy. But it's yours, and you can, and you want to use it. 

My take, FWIW, is that Dez knows the pros, and some cons in practise, others in theory. His choice, his car, his life (which hopefully will continue for many years to come).

This, one hundred times over. 

[plasticvandan]

I think the main issue,now as it was then,was everyone else on the road,only now,people aren't in 850kg triumph heralds,they are in 2500kg suvs.

Are you just going to ignore the years it was off the road while various people played pass the parcel with it because it was undriveable?The other owners aren't disabled and have a workshop and tools at their disposal,you do not.

Mira were forbidden by the DHSS from revealing the results of their crash tests for a reason.

No,they were much worse than anything else on the road in their period,that's why they were withdrawn in 1977. 

They were 3 times more likely to be involved in an accident than a non invalid trike,this is from the RoSPA newspaper from 1975,of which I have a copy somewhere .

It's threads like this that make me embarrassed to be autistic.

[Talbot]

34 minutes ago, Dick Cheeseburger said:

This, one hundred times over. 

Oh I agree.  It's not my place or anyone else's to say what can and cannot be done.  But it is clear that the risk is not understood by the driver here, and it would be irresponsible to simply say "yep, perfectly safe, on you go!"  It's not, it's an absurd risk, but it is not for anyone to say that it's anything other than a personal choice.  Even if that choice is made with fingers firmly in ears while shouting "LAA LAA LAA LAA LAA"

[plasticvandan]

1 minute ago, Talbot said:

Oh I agree.  It's not my place or anyone else's to say what can and cannot be done.  But it is clear that the risk is not understood by the driver here, and it would be irresponsible to simply say "yep, perfectly safe, on you go!"  It's not, it's an absurd risk, but it is not for anyone to say that it's anything other than a personal choice.  Even if that choice is made with fingers firmly in ears while shouting "LAA LAA LAA LAA LAA"

Over confidence and ignorance leads to a sticky end,ask any motorcyclist.

[Christine]

11 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Oh I agree.  It's not my place or anyone else's to say what can and cannot be done.  But it is clear that the risk is not understood by the driver here, and it would be irresponsible to simply say "yep, perfectly safe, on you go!"  It's not, it's an absurd risk, but it is not for anyone to say that it's anything other than a personal choice.  Even if that choice is made with fingers firmly in ears while shouting "LAA LAA LAA LAA LAA"

He can't hear you ....still has tinnitus from 300 mile drive ..

Dunno about anyone else , but with all this rain and leaves on the country roads  , i'm front wheel  skidding a bit !  No abs on me van see  .. in a 3 wheeler it must be awful

[Jazoli]

9 minutes ago, Christine said:

He can't hear you ....still has tinnitus from 300 mile drive ..

Dunno about anyone else , but with all this rain and leaves on the country roads  , i'm front wheel  skidding a bit !  No abs on me van see  .. in a 3 wheeler it must be awful

Is there leaves and mud in London? Thought it was all concreted?

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Mira were forbidden by the DHSS from revealing the results of their crash tests for a reason.

because it included comparisons/tests involving other vehicles and it was not the DHSS that forbid it, but the companies of those other vehicles, they did not want to be seen being compared to a invalid 3 wheeler, basically commercial confidentiality reasons, the DHSS very much wanted to release it, and had to work hard to do so, and it was eventually released in part

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/1975-05-13/debates/65b24451-3278-452a-8fbd-f315a57bbf7b/InvalidTricyclesMiraReport

Quote

As the responsible Minister said in another place on 7th May, it was at the request of the Motor Industry Research Association, made because other makes of vehicle were involved in the tests, that earlier information was limited to a synopsis. The Motor Industry Research Association was entirely satisfied with the accuracy of this synopsis, and that it did not omit any relevant information. Subsequently, the Director of the Motor Industry Research Association prepared copies of the original report, with certain deletions to safeguard commercial confidentiality. These were received by the Department of Health and Social Security on 6th May and the noble Lord will be pleased to learn that a copy was placed in your Lordships' Library on the following day.

 

37 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

I think the main issue,now as it was then,was everyone else on the road,only now,people aren't in 850kg triumph heralds,they are in 2500kg suvs.

well yes of course, I am well aware that I am at a safety disadvantage here, that if I get smacked by an SUV doing 60Mph, its not going to end well, but thats true for anyone on here who choses to drive an older vehicle, or a motorcycle?

 

what I take issue with, is how the Invacar is being unfairly attacked, over issues that are widely applicable to all older vehicles, not just the Invacar, and how things that are being said About the Invacar, that is simply not true, unsubstantiated or certainly not so black and white

[D.E]

22 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

that I am afraid I dont know sadly, it is one I was wondering about myself actually, I might have a trawl through the Hansard reports again to see if theres any mention of it, but I dont recall seeing much about the types of roads etc they happened on

Thanks anyway, what to me as an outsider is very peculiar about Invacars is that their design seem to share an awful lot more similarities with low speed vehicles than with "proper" cars, yet they are capable of doing 70 and allowed on motorways, fast country roads and such. I was hoping to find out if the more serious accidents (resulting in severe injuries, death) typically happened at such roads. I have tried comparing them to stats regarding accidents with the Canta. Cantas weight even less than an Invacar, are made of a light frame with plastic panels, will easily fall over, and are presumably about as unsafe as an Invacar in a crash. But although drivers of Cantas have accidents more often than the average motorist, they don't often die in such events. I suspect a major reason for this is that they are limited to a much lower speed, and are banned from driving on roads with "fast" traffic. Thus, if there is a crash, it is usually at a non-lethal velocity, and if they collide with bigger, heavier vehicles, it will be in an urban area where speed limits are lower. Maybe the flaws in the Invacar's design are partially a result from limitations of the infrastructure. Not a critique, just an observation.

[RayMK]

It's  all down to personal choice and personal responsibility (within the legal framework of this country).  Life's risks will be apparent to most reasonable people who do not want to harm others, directly or indirectly.  What risk is  Dez to those who cannot understand his wish to use an Invacar?  It's practically zero, provided of course that you can resist his enthusiasm and do not buy one of the few useable survivors.  The detractors will vehemently jump up and down with increasing frustration and the debate will no doubt continue 🤣.

[Mrs6C]

In other news, a few weeks ago, I found this parked at a local pub:

It appears to be made in the Netherlands by a company called Sieberg:
https://www.siebergminicars.nl/electric_trike25

Notwithstanding the above, this UK company claims to make its own scooters, so may also build a version:
https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/monster-2/

Whoever has made it, it looks nice enough and seems to be a decent product.

[D.E]

8 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

It appears to be made in the Netherlands by a company called Sieberg:
https://www.siebergminicars.nl/electric_trike25

I think all they do is stick their badge on it, the trike itself is made in China.

[Talbot]

I love that the UK promotional video on their website shows the wiper so badly adjusted that it goes clear off the bottom of the screen, over the rubber seal and almost onto the bodywork.

[RayMK]

2 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

In other news, a few weeks ago, I found this parked at a local pub:

It appears to be made in the Netherlands by a company called Sieberg:
https://www.siebergminicars.nl/electric_trike25

Notwithstanding the above, this UK company claims to make its own scooters, so may also build a version:
https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/monster-2/

Whoever has made it, it looks nice enough and seems to be a decent product.

I've looked at those and similar vehicles which are legal in Europe and elsewhere, usually fitting somewhat  awkwardly but legally, with restrictions pertinent to the countries concerned.  Managing to register one in the UK is rare because our legal requirements differ in many areas e.g. type approval, permissible (limited) speed capability, passenger carrying etc..   One or two owners that have succeeded appear to have somehow pulled the wool over the DVLA by creeping in under class 3 mobility scooter requirements. They then quietly ignore the 8mph limit until a curious plod is attracted by the higher speed (most are capable of at least 15mph) or a lack of number plate (Class 3 has to be registered by the DVLA but displaying a number plate is optional). 

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

I think the main issue,now as it was then,was everyone else on the road,only now,people aren't in 850kg triumph heralds,they are in 2500kg suvs.

Yup. I think he's savvy enough to know this, tbh.

[High Jetter]

36 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

In other news, a few weeks ago, I found this parked at a local pub:

It appears to be made in the Netherlands by a company called Sieberg:
https://www.siebergminicars.nl/electric_trike25

Notwithstanding the above, this UK company claims to make its own scooters, so may also build a version:
https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/monster-2/

Whoever has made it, it looks nice enough and seems to be a decent product.

80% twizzy, 20% ant?

[D.E]

11 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

80% twizzy, 20% ant?

There are countless factories in China churning out copies of trikes, bikes and cars, of vastly varying quality. The one mentioned isn't so bad apparently, but for example they did this as well, a tiny plastic four door microcar with a design "borrowed" from Toyota:

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, RayMK said:

I've looked at those and similar vehicles which are legal in Europe and elsewhere, usually fitting somewhat  awkwardly but legally, with restrictions pertinent to the countries concerned.  Managing to register one in the UK is rare because our legal requirements differ in many areas e.g. type approval, permissible (limited) speed capability, passenger carrying etc..   One or two owners that have succeeded appear to have somehow pulled the wool over the DVLA by creeping in under class 3 mobility scooter requirements. They then quietly ignore the 8mph limit until a curious plod is attracted by the higher speed (most are capable of at least 15mph) or a lack of number plate (Class 3 has to be registered by the DVLA but displaying a number plate is optional). 

not that I expect the suppliers of these vehicles or those who own them to to know about it

 

but the legal definition of an Invalid Carriage, in the traditional sense, separate from Mobility scooters is still a thing, so you could very much still register such a vehicle as a traditional invalid carriage and avoid the Class 3 restrictions  (tho Invalid Carriages of the most traditional sense do still to this day have a 20Mph speed limit in place, which is why they are banned from motorways)

the main distinction (besides what a vehicle has to be to fit in one or the other legal category) is that, an Invalid Carriage is seen as a Motor Vehicle, so you can get done for Drunk driving or Dangerous driving with one, but a Mobility scooter is explicitly not seen as a motor vehicle by law

the first legal definition of a Invalid Carriage was laid down with the Road Traffic Act of 1930, and continues to be present to this day, for Mobility Scooters it was the Chronically sick and disabled act of 1970

its really worth remembering Invalid Vehicles and Mobility scooters are 2 completely separate legal entities in the UK

 

and what is and is not considered an Invalid Carriage itself also varies depending on the law your looking at, hence why I can legally drive REV on a motorway for example, see this excerpt from an older copy of the highway code

I often thought it would be fun to recreate this shot with REV some day  if the vantage point is still there?

[chadders]

9 hours ago, dave j said:

VW camper? Definitely describes mine well!

Yep.

[Dyslexic Viking]

7 hours ago, D.E said:

There are countless factories in China churning out copies of trikes, bikes and cars, of vastly varying quality. The one mentioned isn't so bad apparently, but for example they did this as well, a tiny plastic four door microcar with a design "borrowed" from Toyota:

Thats so bad it's good.

I secretly want one.

[Andrew353w]

Again, slightly off topic, but a question in response to your picture  of the Highway Code motorway rules. When I learnt to drive in 1977 electric vehicles were not permitted to use motorways. Granted that the only vehicles I knew that were electrically powered were operated by Unigate and as there were no motorways in Devon at the time the question was somewhat academic, but I'm sure that was the case. Does anyone know when this was changed?

Or is my memory of almost 50 years ago playing tricks with me......?

[mercedade]

12 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

not that I expect the suppliers of these vehicles or those who own them to to know about it

 

but the legal definition of an Invalid Carriage, in the traditional sense, separate from Mobility scooters is still a thing, so you could very much still register such a vehicle as a traditional invalid carriage and avoid the Class 3 restrictions  (tho Invalid Carriages of the most traditional sense do still to this day have a 20Mph speed limit in place, which is why they are banned from motorways)

the main distinction (besides what a vehicle has to be to fit in one or the other legal category) is that, an Invalid Carriage is seen as a Motor Vehicle, so you can get done for Drunk driving or Dangerous driving with one, but a Mobility scooter is explicitly not seen as a motor vehicle by law

the first legal definition of a Invalid Carriage was laid down with the Road Traffic Act of 1930, and continues to be present to this day, for Mobility Scooters it was the Chronically sick and disabled act of 1970

its really worth remembering Invalid Vehicles and Mobility scooters are 2 completely separate legal entities in the UK

 

and what is and is not considered an Invalid Carriage itself also varies depending on the law your looking at, hence why I can legally drive REV on a motorway for example, see this excerpt from an older copy of the highway code

I often thought it would be fun to recreate this shot with REV some day  if the vantage point is still there?

Aww...that's my junction.

From May 2025 (Google)

[Yoss]

21 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

I think the main issue,now as it was then,was everyone else on the road,only now,people aren't in 850kg triumph heralds,they are in 2500kg suvs.

 

My daily still weighs 850kg and has no modern safety gubbins. Okay so it's a lot more substantial than an Invacar but I still wouldn't stand a chance against one of these 2.5 ton SUVs you speak of. But I still use it and I don't ever get in it and worry that I might not reach my destination.

And I'd certainly happily daily an Invacar, certainly for the sort of journeys that Dez uses it for. It can't be more dangerous than a bike. 

21 hours ago, Jazoli said:

Is there leaves and mud in London? Thought it was all concreted?

London on Sunday, yes there is. 

[High Jetter]

21 hours ago, Jazoli said:

Is there leaves and mud in London? Thought it was all concreted?

I think you'll find that nearly 50% of Greater London is green space, surprisingly.

[Jazoli]

11 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I think you'll find that nearly 50% of Greater London is green space, surprisingly.

I know, I worked there for a while!

[IronStar]

12 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Thats so bad it's good.

I secretly want one.

It looks like a crossover between Tata Nano and Prius

[LightBulbFun]

remember remember the 5th of November, why? because it was REV's birthday, 49 years old!, next year the big 50! 

had an early morning bakery run, great fun bombing about at 3AM, highlights including completely befuddling a bin-lorry full of bin men, trying to ask me about it only to be interrupted by a panda car pulling up in the lane between us, Rude!

and Mr Fox being about the only pedestrian encountered, its fun when everything is deserted, only few other cars encountered, wonder what they thought of an Invacar wirring past them at 3 in the morning

thankfully the bakery are open 24/7, so got the goods 

and was soon home

[All-Cisterns-Go]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

had an early morning bakery run, great fun bombing about at 3AM, 

 

thankfully the bakery are open 24/7, so got the goods 

 

and was soon home

 You pregnant or something? Suddenly getting a craving for buns at 3am.....