invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Mr Pastry]

2 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

I have been searching for a replacement panel but unfortunately they aren't common at all, the original is definitely repairable in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, unfortunately I'm not that person.

Have you got all the broken bits?

[Weird Car]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Have you got all the broken bits?

A few of the big bits including half the original tail fin but not all the parts unfortunately

[Weird Car]

Here's my current progress with the repairs. As you can see the attempt ended up too thin and weak to work properly.

[somewhatfoolish]

The ex-Egg Mk12 had a mostly intact rear end but knackered A pillars; between the two some repair panels could be knocked up? doors still in short supply though... 🤣

[Mr Pastry]

9 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Here's my current progress with the repairs. As you can see the attempt ended up too thin and weak to work properly.

Hat doffed to you for even trying.  it's not the best fun in the world. @LightBulbFunWhat happened to the Pembrokeshire car, was it even a Mk12?    It's not desperately far away, I am due a visit, and I might* have a van and a hacksaw.

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Hat doffed to you for even trying.  it's not the best fun in the world. @LightBulbFunWhat happened to the Pembrokeshire car, was it even a Mk12?    It's not desperately far away, I am due a visit, and I might* have a van and a hacksaw.

I sadly dont know what happened to it, it may still be there for all I know, its not a Mk12 however, its either a Model 67 or Model 70, im not sure which as all I can see is the roof! its still very much worth excavating if you can, and if you are visiting then ill see if I can finally get the lady who found it to divulge exactly where it is  as this is one thats been bugging me for a few years now!

 

but there is also this Mk12E MVX977J 

which looks to have an intact rear end  its another where I do know who found it and have spoken to them but I still need to see if I can get them to tell me where they found it (but at least on this one I was able to get a chassis plate picture from them which is how I was able to ID it  )

[Mr Pastry]

Locations of both would be kinda helpful.

[Bfg]

Good morrow neighbours. 

Looking at the pictures supplied ..thanks,  I'd say its "beyond economic repair"  ..so why not do it ! 

There's a whole lot of work but, if you have the will - then you can do it.  Remember that those who work in production fibreglass tend not to be of the most intellectual trait, nor even of a sporting or artistic temperament - but they can do it ..and so too you can learn those trade skills.  It is an honourable trade and a good fibreglasser is a craftsman with exceptional skills - so it is worth learning to do well.   

Firstly though I must point out that grp is used for making single skin panels., and then panels are joined together ..So for example ; the inner wheel-arch needs to be thought of as a separate panel to the outer wing and so (if you wish to do a good job) it'll have to be 'reconstructed' it as a separated piece which can then be adhered back into place. 

- - -

The way I'd approach this job. . .  is to reconstruct the whole back end of the car as if I were going to take a mould off it.  ie., what you have is part of the male pattern which gives you a great start, and now you've just got to fill in the gaps.  but not  (you'll be glad to hear) at this stage using fibreglass. 

I'd start by removing the lamps and reassembling the rhs wing correctly and square onto the body, from whence it came ..bearing in mind the thickness of the cutting disc or blade - so there will be a gap between the two parts.  An even spacing around the opening lid will best give you this location.  Battens of wood, spanning across the outside of that cut line, can literally be screwed in place to hold it secure and solid. 

NB. Fibreglass doesn't like being screwed into, because the metal barbs crack the inflexible glass strands and then delaminates the laminated layers ..so it is better to drill holes through the fibreglass panel and to then screw from the inside, through those holes - into the wooden battens. Use a flat timber block behind the panel as you drill the holes to prevent it further cracking the fibreglass as the drill breaks through.  Then use penny-washers under the screw heads to prevent localised distress and cracking. Just pinch those up tight enough to hold things in place. This is just a temporary assembly not a structural repair.  Those small (..if neat) holes will be easy to fill in afterwards.

The left hand side likewise needs to be positioned and held securely in correct and square place.  There looks to be no chassis support for this, and so you'll have to screw timber beams from under the car's floor to the back corner. Again an even gap around the lid opening will give you the location of what remains of the LHS wing.   

NB. in boat building we build a 'hard-back' that's laid along the floor and is leveled up (..sort of like a steel fabricator's level bed). The buck is built on top of this. That may be helpful but of course once set level and built upon it cannot be moved.  And that may not be the best option of you're working in your garden. Beams screwed / bolted to the underside of the car or whatever chassis is under there may be more practical to live with.

Once the existing pieces are in very accurate position, I'd close the inside area of that wing with plywood. Possibly 6mm thk ply ..attached to what remains of the inner wheel-arch, or otherwise the timber beams, or any other timber block(s) you might add. 

Line this with plastic sheet and tape over the corners to close that dam off.  This will have to be removed from the inside of the panel later, so consider that when making it..  For example, avoid screw heads within the void. 

It looks as if the top-half of this side of your car's B-post / door shut is missing, so you'll have to temporarily shape and fit plywood in its place.  I'd then span the outside wing shape with plastic sheet (masking taped in place all around) and timber battens over this to best emulate the finished shape (..drawing below).  NB. The more effort you put into getting this shape right.. the less work you'll have later on.  In the cavity created, I'd use spray urethane foam  (builder use it to fill in around pipes through brickwork) to fill it. This semi-rigid foam then is a solid foundation to recreating the missing sections of the rear-wing panel.

Once set and the outside timber battens and plastic sheet are removed, this foam can easily be better shaped by hand. Coarse sandpaper on a long-block is good n quick for this task, but please  do wear a face mask   ..as its dust is no good for your lungs, and is also pretty uncomfortably gritty in your eyes and down your collar too.        

You're trying to reproduce the original and correct shape of the whole LHS rear wing, and that is really difficult to do by eye - so the surest way is to mark your RHS wing with a grid of measured vertical and horizontal lines (pencil or masking tape), which along with a profile gauge, or cutting card profile templates to those grid lines, can be used to mirror the shape.  Shaping the foam is a pretty crude affair, and so what's next needed is a filler.  However I would recommend Plaster of Paris  rather than bondo (polyester filler) because it's easy and safe to use, and it's much easier to get rid of later  (..a jet wash &/or wire brush soon gets rid of any).

Once that foam with plaster filler is shaped then it can be sealed and you will have successfully have created a male pattern, onto which fibreglass can be laminated (..it's easier working over the outside). And that new shell once trimmed and set-in-flush ought to be pretty accurate to the car's final shape. 

Any questions, just ask..  but I will explain fibreglass laminating in another post, and I'll also explain how to fix the new / shaped repair panel to the existing / original body panels

Hope that helps,

Pete

 

[richardmorris]

From the Wrexham local bygones leader page. 1962.

 

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

From the Wrexham local bygones leader page. 1962.

 

ah cool  but thats a Reliant Regal im afraid!

[RayMK]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah cool  but thats a Reliant Regal im afraid!

 

True, but it's earlier than mine which is a MKVI.  From the narrow front and separate bumper I'd say it was a MKIII or MKIV.  People used to add a front bumper to MKIVs which were generally sold bumper less..  The MKV (shallow front screen, separate front side and indicator lights below headlights and a roof gutter  only over the front doors) and the MKVI (deeper front screen, single indicator lights below the headlights, roof gutter over doors and rear side windows plus a pronounced roof lip over the rear screen) both share the wider front.  Also, whereas the MKIII and IV could have a front bumper fitted on brackets, the V and VI had a bumper shaped body moulding on to which metal bumpers fitted snuggly and directly.  In either case, the front bumper was of cosmetic value only.  There is no metalwork immediately behind the front panel. The whole front moulding is held on by the wooden A posts and the chassis cross rail which bridges across the upturned front chassis rails just in front of the bonnet hatch and above engine height.  MKII and IV Regals were never a common sight back in their era but a chap at college had a MKIII which regularly carried 3 burly rugby players plus driver, also a rugby player, to local sports fields.  

[richardmorris]

43 minutes ago, RayMK said:

True, but it's earlier than mine which is a MKVI.  From the narrow front and separate bumper I'd say it was a MKIII or MKIV.  People used to add a front bumper to MKIVs which were generally sold bumper less..  The MKV (shallow front screen, separate front side and indicator lights below headlights and a roof gutter  only over the front doors) and the MKVI (deeper front screen, single indicator lights below the headlights, roof gutter over doors and rear side windows plus a pronounced roof lip over the rear screen) both share the wider front.  Also, whereas the MKIII and IV could have a front bumper fitted on brackets, the V and VI had a bumper shaped body moulding on to which metal bumpers fitted snuggly and directly.  In either case, the front bumper was of cosmetic value only.  There is no metalwork immediately behind the front panel. The whole front moulding is held on by the wooden A posts and the chassis cross rail which bridges across the upturned front chassis rails just in front of the bonnet hatch and above engine height.  MKII and IV Regals were never a common sight back in their era but a chap at college had a MKIII which regularly carried 3 burly rugby players plus driver, also a rugby player, to local sports fields.  

Reg looks like BFF519. Looks like just the driver had a wiper arm.

[High Jetter]

Some prime chod in the backgound. Looks like the Mini is kissing the Oxbridge's ass!

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Reg looks like BFF519. Looks like just the driver had a wiper arm.

BFFxxx is Merionethshire issue of February 1957  (with CFFxxx being issued in August 1958, so it was probably registered right between those 2 dates!)

slightly notable in that Merionethshire was one of those counties that did not see many car registrations and only got up to HFF916 before switching to AFF-B suffix marks

so the DVLA then used all later xFFxxx marks as age related marks for a while

[RayMK]

3 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Reg looks like BFF519. Looks like just the driver had a wiper arm.

 

MKIII and IV only had a wiper on the driver's side, probably because Reliant always struggled to keep the vehicle weight within the limits for tricycle taxation and driving licence requirements.  Two wipers followed on the MKV and VI, so they must have chiselled away at material thicknesses or thinned down the rubberised horsehair rear seat cushioning.* 

[AdgeCutler]

I've meant to share this picture for a while now, it's Brians chain gaurd. Interestingly it seems to be in the Peacock blue from the early mark 12 machines, I guess a load were painted in the early days of the model and sat on the shelf awaiting their use. No other components sport this colour.

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

I've meant to share this picture for a while now, it's Brians chain gaurd. Interestingly it seems to be in the Peacock blue from the early mark 12 machines, I guess a load were painted in the early days of the model and sat on the shelf awaiting their use. No other components sport this colour.

ooh thats interesting! it looks to be marked E33, I wonder is that for Mk12E?

I wonder if it might actually Greeves Motorcycle blue it looks quite similar to that  

[Weird Car]

Has this pic been shared yet? Apologies if it has.

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Has this pic been shared yet? Apologies if it has.

indeed it has, its a still from a video I shared that @Datsuncog did a lovely breakdown on, back on page 44  still appreciate the heads up tho  

 

On 29/04/2019 at 02:39, LightBulbFun said:

For datsuncog?, some hot video action of UOI4719 on the road

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-year-of-the-disabled-1981-online

 

(sadly they dont show any other Model 70s)

 

On 29/04/2019 at 11:28, Datsuncog said:

 

Aw man, that's phenomenal - cheers for that!

 

I vaguely remember Counterpoint on UTV, and aside from the very pertinent debate about the suitability or otherwise of the 'trike' (as it's referred to throughout) as a means of transport for people with disabilities, that on-the-road footage is awesome.

 

As I think I posted earlier on from the Ulster Transport Museum information board, UOI4719 was owned by Mary Boyce who competed in national rallies in her Model 70 (seen here in the queue for the ferry at Belfast Harbour):

 

 

UOI might have had a fair few miles on it, if it was regularly driving down from Heysham to Silverstone!

 

The footage of UOI was filmed around the town of Newtownards in Co.Down, where I went to school - it's fantastic to see footage of High Street and Frances Street as they were in 1981.

 

 

 

 

The cars in the background were just street furniture then, but absolute gold now. That beige E70 Corolla would have been nearly new, and (as it's wearing a Co. Down plate) was most likely supplied by Rosepark Toyota, just a stone's throw away at the junction of the Portaferry Road.

 

I think the residential area on the film is the maybe the Bowtown Estate, or possibly Ballybeen out towards Dundonald direction - but I can't be sure, as it was extensively remodelled in the 1990s, and all the older maisonettes flattened. It's definitely not the Scrabo Estate (older), or West Winds (built on reclaimed flood plain, and so very flat. And very wet, when it rains).

 

 

 

Again, Viva HCs, Mk3 Cortinas, B310 Datsun Sunnys and FE Victors... wow. I'm a bit young to remember these cars when they were common on local roads, so this is great to see.

 

Coincidentally, I was over in Ards on Saturday with MrsDC, ordering wallpaper and trying to look for some furniture.

 

'Thompson's The Bakers', on the corner of Conway Square and High St, is now a Caffe Nero.

 

 

The square's been fully pedestrianised for years now - I never remember traffic able to pass through it or park.

 

I also dragged MrsDC up and down several streets looking for a particular independent furniture store that used to sell interesting locally made pieces: "I'm sure it's around here - it's on a corner, beside an arcade."

 

 

Why, what's this, right at the end of the documentary?

 

 

It's the very shop. Now no longer there, it would seem, though clearly it was in the same spot for a very long time.

 

Cheers again!

 

PLUS: bonus Renault R15 action at the 18:00 minute mark... 3-stud wheels FTW. Phoarrr.

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, I've had no response via official email channels from the Ulster Transport Museum re. having a proper look at WOI - so if there's no further response to my reminder email, then my next move is to call on my contact...

 

 

 

but speaking of period shots, I came across this nice Mk12 one  

the lack of any other vehicles in the scene is interesting, its almost like some sort post apocalyptic scene where all non fibreglass cars have mysteriously vanished and hoards of pedestrians look on at @AdgeCutler with envious eyes as he cruises on by, getting ready to floor it if any should make a move 

[egg]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

the lack of any other vehicles in the scene is interesting, its almost like some sort post apocalyptic scene where all non fibreglass cars have mysteriously vanished and hoards of pedestrians look on at @AdgeCutler with envious eyes as he cruises on by, getting ready to floor it if any should make a move 

A world where peak human engineering is the 1 cylinder Villiers. There's a thought. Still, with 45 mph capability can outrun any living creature....

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Still, with 45 mph capability can outrun any living creature....

Probably safe from zombies too, as they'd never figure out how to open the sliding door to get at you...

[High Jetter]

Zombies....move....slowly

[JJ0063]

LBF, I’ve missed this thread for ages - to save me trawling for ages, how did your driving lessons/test go?

[High Jetter]

His test is next week. Let him revise, we all want him to pass.

[Eyersey1234]

Just to wish you chodtastic luck with your test @LightBulbFun

[LightBulbFun]

47 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

LBF, I’ve missed this thread for ages - to save me trawling for ages, how did your driving lessons/test go?

still on going! I failed my first 2 tests sadly but got my 3rd on the 21st hopefully 3rd times a charm as they say!  

 

main thing is I need to get a handle on my fucking nerves, I took a mock test with my instructor last lesson and I failed because my nerves just got the better of me

its just really frustrating as im fine during lessons/normal driving, but during that mock test my nerves just went through the roof and I start doubting myself/hesitating so I failed on that during a couple points (one was waiting too long at a junction and another was dithering between lanes while I tried to figure out which I should be in)

 

but thankfully I did not fail the mock test on anything else, Ie I did not pull out on anyone or fail to check my mirrors etc and the parallel parking went well LOL

 

I have got another lesson tomorrow, where we will hopefully be doing another mock test and hopefully I can do better this time round! (and I have another lesson on Monday the day before the test)

if I could go back in time, I think what I would of done is insisted on started doing mock tests much earlier then I have done, because I clearly can drive, I just need to get a handle on my nerves during the test/get use to the test environment if that makes sense!

its just I got so much riding on this, and I know everything is booked up to buggery so If I fail, who knows when Ill be able to take another test, and ill have to do my theory again because that expires in January

and then I also start thinking about all the things that could go wrong how easy it is to fail and just how conditional it is, as you said in a post elsewhere on this forum about your up coming lorry test, so much of it is up to chance/conditional, lots of idiots on/in the road!

I wish I could turn my nerves off or something! LOL

 

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

In lighting hobby news

I took delivery of this a few days ago  my very first America streetlight! imported directly from North America  (Shown with a Philips SL lamp for size comparison)

a fellow America friend and lighting very kindly bought it for my birthday a couple weeks ago and it arrived recently  I have wanted one of these and have tried to get one for over 10 years now so I am very pleased to finally have one!

it was brand new in box  (and thankfully managed to survive the trip overseas as the seller only sent it in its original box with zero extra packaging or double boxing despite me asking him to!)

its an American Electric  Lighting Roadway 115, or AEL 115 for short, its of the classic American Cobrahead design, and there are many US streetlights that follow this design style, but the AEL ones are the ones I like the most atheistically so I am very pleased to have gotten one finally  

this particular example uses a 100W High Pressure Sodium lamp, however US 35W 50W 70W 100W 150W and 1000W HPS lamps are not of the same electrical specifications as British/European HPS lamps of the same wattage so I had to wait for a US Spec lamp to arrive as I only had US Spec HPS lamps in 50W and 1000W

thankfully I was able to find a UK based supplier for the lamp so I did not have to wait for the lamp to arrive from the states

(that is what the Yellow 10 sticker is about, its called a NEMA tag and tells the crew on the ground what lamp the streetlight uses, so Yellow for HPS and 10 for 100W)

access is gained by pushing on the latch on the front of the streetlight and swinging the door out of the way

with the lamp installed and everything wired it up, it was time to fire it up, of course this being American it is rated for 120V 60Hz, thankfully I have equipment to deal with that, in this case my Variac, a Special transformer that lets me dial in any voltage I want between 0V and 270V  

as this is 60Hz if I fed it 120V directly it would actually make it unhappy as the UK is 50Hz, so get around this I fed the fixture a lower voltage of about 105-108V to compensate for the frequency difference, which worked perfectly  

the lamp fired up and ran up nicely  

after monitoring the voltage and current and ballast temperature to make sure everything was happy (and as you can see by the label the fixture was made on the 22nd of August 2018)

I closed the door and have had it running happily for over an hour now, enjoying its nice warm golden glow by my side  

as you can probably imagine/tell I very pleased/happy with this, I of course have a few British streetlights in my collection but US Streetlights are not exactly common here so I am very happy to have one in the collection and of one of the exact models I had lusted after  

the ultimate find for me now would be to find and get an AEL 327, which is the biggest Streetlight AEL made and was made for 1000W Lamps so 10x more powerful then this streetlight! as you can imagine they are massive beasts, but follow the same design as the AEL 115 so again I really like the athletic of them

but sadly AEL stopped making 327's around 2018, and even when in production where much less common then the standard AEL 115 which was cranked out by the truckload. hopefully someday I can get my hands on an AEL 327  

anyways I hope you enjoyed this look at an American streetlight  

[Weird Car]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:07 PM, AdgeCutler said:

I've meant to share this picture for a while now, it's Brians chain gaurd. Interestingly it seems to be in the Peacock blue from the early mark 12 machines, I guess a load were painted in the early days of the model and sat on the shelf awaiting their use. No other components sport this colour.

I just checked mine and it's the standard"ministry" blue, so maybe Brian had a replacement chain guard at some point?

[LightBulbFun]

On 22/12/2020 at 21:32, Spottedlaurel said:

Seen this one on Flickr yet?

 

 

On 22/12/2020 at 22:11, LightBulbFun said:

Ohh no I had not! but I see its in my usual tabs and was only uploaded today, which is why I had not yet seen it as iv been busy doing some Invalid vehicle admin today (which will get its own post once its done  )

but that is a very cool find! its a very late Frank Tippen and Sons Tippen Delta, until now the latest one I have been able to find (in this case by Chassis number bashing against the DVLA database) is OVC89H (an Electric machine)

for reference the earliest Fred Miller Ltd Tippen Delta I can find is ATD567J

id love to know if its an electric or Petrol machine, (current thought and research suggests that Petrol machines ended production a good bit before Electric machines)

so id like to say this is an electric machine but sadly it does not show up on the DVLA nor does anything from OVC401H-OVC510H, so I dont know any exact details about it sadly

bringing this one back up as I just unearthed this neat period photo  

another very late Frank Tippen & Sons Tippen Delta 8, in the same OVC-H block as the above flicker car,

I still sadly dont know if this block of machines was one last final batch of petrol machines or electric machines

(its been presumed that Petrol machines ended production before the Electric machines did but has never been confirmed)

its also a neat shot giving a good comparison between the Delta 8 up front and the Delta 6 behind it  

[Weird Car]

This has probably already been shared but just incase it hasn't here's an interesting vid apparently from 1959 showing a rather interesting MK12 Prototype possibly?? with a much smaller rear window.