invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

in Mk12 news, I see the Hull Transport Museum has put GVW564H on display! and its polished up very well! a nice high resolution picture gets me a good look at the fine details! like the original slightly oversize Tippers plate  

https://twitter.com/Hull_Museums/status/1593589443239317505

[somewhatfoolish]

You seen this yootoob vid of Louth in the 70s? Shame the image is so potato.

[DVee8]

[egg]

Did model 70 owners feel a bit superior to their Villiers engined mates?

[Weird Car]

50 minutes ago, egg said:

Did model 70 owners feel a bit superior to their Villiers engined mates?

I’ve always felt bad for those poor people who got a villiers machine on a J plate just as the model 70 was released and had to endure unreliable 197cc 2 stoke premix machines with a manual gearbox and tiller bar, whist others where blasting about in their almost trouble free 500cc automatic 4 stroke machines

[LightBulbFun]

22 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

You seen this yootoob vid of Louth in the 70s? Shame the image is so potato.

no not seen that one before! clearly shot on film so theoretically a much better higher resolution scan could be made! 

12 hours ago, DVee8 said:

now I have seen that one before! one of the common photo sets that show up all the time  

10 hours ago, egg said:

Did model 70 owners feel a bit superior to their Villiers engined mates?

Yeah I have wondered about that! I wonder if the Villiers users noticed the first Model 70's and went asking "so when can I upgrade to one of those!" 

9 hours ago, Harriytait said:

I’ve always felt bad for those poor people who got a villiers machine on a J plate just as the model 70 was released and had to endure unreliable 197cc 2 stoke premix machines with a manual gearbox and tiller bar, whist others where blasting about in their almost trouble free 500cc automatic 4 stroke machines

if you think thats "bad"! AC Model 70 Production commenced in June 1971, and indeed the first 100 Production AC Model 70's where on J suffix plates! 

but Invacar Model 70 Production only commenced in ~October~ 1971 and to fill out the gap, Invacar just kept producing Mk12's! 

where as AC produced 3000 PFS Villiers machines, Invacar produced 3500, and the last 320* of those where even on K suffix plates! so you could see your mate get an AC Model 70 and then 3 months later you get handed a New Mk12E!  (*I do want to still verify with the Essex archives if the first 20 of the PPU501K-PPU600K block are indeed Mk12's! but it certainly looks like it otherwise)

 

the AC Acedes Model 57 also remained in limited production for special cases and the last of those where also on a K suffix plate, I have said it before, but worth repeating, if you really wanted to fuck with the historians you could indeed theoretically have line up of a H Suffix Model 70, J Suffix Model 67 and a K Suffix Model 57! 

and then there are Electric Machines! if you thought Villers where bad! an Electric machine had a top speed of about 12Mph! but that was partly by design, the Electric machines where for people with severe  disabilities, which needed a very easy/simple to control machine, or where letting them out in something faster would be unsafe, and where more used in a Mobility scooter roll rather then as as a motor vehicle roll, hence why the Tippen Delta was chosen to to be the Ministries last new Electric machine, nice and narrow able to keep out of the way of things! 

and they kept "producing" those until the end of the Invalid vehicle scheme! indeed S Suffix Tippen Delta!

and these aspects of the Electric machine is one of the reasons the venerable Stanley Argson just kept on going! with 50, 1950's Argsons still in Ministry service by the mid 1980's! because none of those users wanted to upgrade to something big and bulky!

 

[quicksilver]

This popped up on Facebook. Oxford model brilliantly modified with the door open.

[Christine]

That's hilarious !

[Weird Car]

First major job on TPE complete, master cylinder swapped!

I watched @dollywobbler s vid in preparation last night and scoffed slightly when he mentioned it being a ball ache to do as I’ve changed a fair few master cylinders in my day and have never had an issue, mr hubnut I owe you a massive apology, what an absolute pig of a job, most of my issues would have been sorted if they just used captive nuts instead of nut and bolt, the room for spanner’s was atrocious and not to mention the crippling back pain after being slouched looking into the tiny bonnet for an hour, anyway enough moaning it’s done now, also added new hardware as the original bolts were so rusty the nut wouldn’t go all the way down the bolt

[LightBulbFun]

44 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

First major job on TPE complete, master cylinder swapped!

I watched @dollywobbler s vid in preparation last night and scoffed slightly when he mentioned it being a ball ache to do as I’ve changed a fair few master cylinders in my day and have never had an issue, mr hubnut I owe you a massive apology, what an absolute pig of a job, most of my issues would have been sorted if they just used captive nuts instead of nut and bolt, the room for spanner’s was atrocious and not to mention the crippling back pain after being slouched looking into the tiny bonnet for an hour, anyway enough moaning it’s done now, also added new hardware as the original bolts were so rusty the nut wouldn’t go all the way down the bolt

Awesome to see work is commencing on TPE409S, although sorry to hear its been a bit of a ball-ache! 

 

do you know where the new Master cylinder came from, if theres a link or a modern part number? would be good to have for everyone else on here with a Model 70  

 

has this gotten the brakes working now, or do you think you will have to do battle with all the slave cylinders as well?! otherwise I hope things get easier from here on out!

 

 

if it makes you feel better, it took me about 2 hours just to change a battery earth strap on REV and even afterwards when I took this photo

I noticed I had left a washer lying in the chassis rail, its probably still lying in the channel there at @red5's LOL

[Weird Car]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Awesome to see work is commencing on TPE409S, although sorry to hear its been a bit of a ball-ache! 

 

do you know where the new Master cylinder came from, if theres a link or a modern part number? would be good to have for everyone else on here with a Model 70  

 

has this gotten the brakes working now, or do you think you will have to do battle with all the slave cylinders as well?! otherwise I hope things get easier from here on out!

 

 

if it makes you feel better, it took me about 2 hours just to change a battery earth strap on REV and even afterwards when I took this photo

I noticed I had left a washer lying in the chassis rail, its probably still lying in the channel there at @red5's LOL

It just came in a generic cardboard box with model 70 brake master scribbled on it with sharpie definitely new old stock

it came with the car so no link unfortunately,

I’ll most likely have to re build the brakes too but I was expecting I’d have to.

[bobdisk]

It looks like a Triumph Herald/Spitfire master cylinder:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GMC224

https://www.sportscarsupplies.com/brake-master-cylinder-single-circuit-triumph--spitfire---herald--gmc224-1299-p.asp

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

It just came in a generic cardboard box with model 70 brake master scribbled on it with sharpie definitely new old stock

it came with the car so no link unfortunately,

I’ll most likely have to re build the brakes too but I was expecting I’d have to.

ahh yeah I figured such but thought it was worth an ask incase it did happen to come in a branded box  your pictures do confirm that it is just a fairly generic Girling 0.625 inch bore Master cylinder as I thought they may of been 

if you search girling 625 you get plenty of results, although most oddly enough dont have the plastic reservoir container

 

Yeah given that AFAIK TPE409S has not been on the road in 15-20 years its probably not a bad idea to have a look at her whole breaking system regardless!

@Zelandeth has done a good writeup on how to tackle the rear brakes if you dont have the nice half moon hubs, to hopefully minimise the PTSD!

https://autoshite.com/topic/29443-zels-motoring-adventuresmerc-vauxhall-vw-ac-model-70-a-sinclair-c5-1011-caddy-mot-pass-achieved/page/110/?tab=comments#comment-2233677

 

[red5]

Hmm. Master cylinder looking favourite.

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, red5 said:

Hmm. Master cylinder looking favourite.

if you search Google or eBay for Girling 625

or Girling 0.625 etc you will find plenty of results for both new Master cylinders and rebuild kits!

if you do go down the new cylinder route, you may need to swap the pushrod over from the original unit

7 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Girling 64068035, originally Ford 100E brake and clutch among others.  Not the same as Herald/ Spitfire as these have an angled mounting, although they can be made to work.

interesting! Girling themselves lists the part number 64066000 as the Master Cylidner for the Model 70 

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/94895fc8/files/uploaded/GIRLING VEHICLE APPLICATIONS. AC. ABARTH. ALFA. ASTON MARTIN%2C AUSTIN. HEALEY. BARRETT%2C BOND%2C CLAN%2C DAIMLER%2C ELVA. 1960-85.pdf

and DHSS's parts list for the Model 70 lists 74066120

I wonder what the difference is between em all!

 

although in general I have found these Girling part numbers dont lead to much sadly, sometimes the odd new old stock part, but no handy cross-reference to modern day parts!

 

[AdgeCutler]

Emptying down outside so I’m neglecting my profession and favouring taking a first attempt at making the dash tray.

[AdgeCutler]

The first attempt came out pretty well but I had enough Millboard to have another  shot, second time round and a slight change to tooling and I have it cracked 😀.

[Weird Car]

TPE wearing new tyres, definitely not a fun job to do on a flooded driveway, as it turns out having a 3 wheeler on axle stands in a storm is very scary 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Harriytait said:

TPE wearing new tyres, definitely not a fun job to do on a flooded driveway, as it turns out having a 3 wheeler on axle stands in a storm is very scary 

I guess the upshot of axle stands is you could put 4 under the car and make it even more stable then it would be on wheels LOL

 

I am curious what tyres are those? obviously me being me I have done a bit of research into the various 145R10 125R12 5.20-10 and 4.40-12 tyre options available today

and I dont recognise those! so curious which they are

 

I have often thought it would be quite fun to a do handling test/comparison of all the Model 70's given the large spread of different tyre types and sizes we have here among all the Model 70's on the forum  

for example I know Adam goes for originality and thus he suits and boots his 10 inch wheeled cars in Camac 5.20-10 cross-ply's so it would be interesting to see how those handled compared to say TPA on her Camac classic tread style, but Radial BN313 145R10's or REV's more modern style Falken SN807's 

and theres TWC on 12 inch Michelin X's 125R12, and Adam's 12 inch car is on again original spec Pirelli 125R12 Cinturato's 

 

as a fun side note on the 12 inch tyres I noticed both the Pirelli and Michelin options are available in white wall, I kinda wonder what that would look like on a Villers machine or early Model 70! (I knew of the white wall Pirelli's for a couple years now but it seems like Michelin have started offering them too)

 

I do know of at least 1 AC Acedes that was shod in white walls in period back in the day  

[AdgeCutler]

A bit more progress and we now have a complete Brian exhaust. I’m unsure what I did wrong but my brazing wasn’t quite so tidy this time around but it’s strong and airtight.

[egg]

Lovely little pea-shooter! Well done for your perseverance on this project.

[Weird Car]

25 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I guess the upshot of axle stands is you could put 4 under the car and make it even more stable then it would be on wheels LOL

 

I am curious what tyres are those? obviously me being me I have done a bit of research into the various 145R10 125R12 5.20-10 and 4.40-12 tyre options available today

and I dont recognise those! so curious which they are

 

I have often thought it would be quite fun to a do handling test/comparison of all the Model 70's given the large spread of different tyre types and sizes we have here among all the Model 70's on the forum  

for example I know Adam goes for originality and thus he suits and boots his 10 inch wheeled cars in Camac 5.20-10 cross-ply's so it would be interesting to see how those handled compared to say TPA on her Camac classic tread style, but Radial BN313 145R10's or REV's more modern style Falken SN807's 

and theres TWC on 12 inch Michelin X's 125R12, and Adam's 12 inch car is on again original spec Pirelli 125R12 Cinturato's 

 

as a fun side note on the 12 inch tyres I noticed both the Pirelli and Michelin options are available in white wall, I kinda wonder what that would look like on a Villers machine or early Model 70! (I knew of the white wall Pirelli's for a couple years now but it seems like Michelin have started offering them too)

 

I do know of at least 1 AC Acedes that was shod in white walls in period back in the day  

Kumho 755 I believe they’re called 

they’re 145 65 10 

[Weird Car]

Speaking of tyres I believe VJN is running trailer tyres or at least was in my ownership, I read the reviews online and they seemed really good, it wasn’t until I got them fitted i noticed it said “trailer use only max speed 55mph” on the sidewall. Still good tyres though once set to the right psi 

[LightBulbFun]

50 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Kumho 755 I believe they’re called 

they’re 145 65 10 

interesting I cant find much on those, I wonder if they where NOS? 

im guessing the 65 here is the load index?, rather then the sidewall profile! (because if anything they look to have somewhat tall sidewalls rather than short!)

22 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Speaking of tyres I believe VJN is running trailer tyres or at least was in my ownership, I read the reviews online and they seemed really good, it wasn’t until I got them fitted i noticed it said “trailer use only max speed 55mph” on the sidewall. Still good tyres though once set to the right psi 

Yeah I did worry at first if those Kumho's where trailer tyres! (Its not the first time I have seen a vehicle with 10 inch wheels fitted with trailer tyres sadly! seen it as an MOT Fail on a few Reliant's I have looked up in the past)

and regarding VJN thats good to know for @AdgeCutler's sake,  I mean given the top speed of a Model 70 is 82Mph, might be worth getting em changed! dont wanna have a high speed blowout while your cruising down Lane 3 flashing Audi's out of the way 

(and probably the more pressing matter of I am not entirely sure PC Plod/VOSA and Mr Insurance would be happy to hear someones put trailer tyres on a motor vehicle!)

 

 

however on the flip side when researching the road vehicle tyres I had fitted to REV, it was somewhat tricky finding decent reviews of them, because half the people buying them said "Oh I have no idea what this is like for road use I just bought em for my trailer!" LOL

[Weird Car]

4 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting I cant find much on those, I wonder if they where NOS? 

im guessing the 65 here is the load index?, rather then the sidewall profile! (because if anything they look to have somewhat tall sidewalls rather than short!)

Yeah I did worry at first if those Kumho's where trailer tyres! (Its not the first time I have seen a vehicle with 10 inch wheels fitted with trailer tyres sadly! seen it as an MOT Fail on a few Reliant's I have looked up in the past)

and regarding VJN thats good to know for @AdgeCutler's sake,  I mean given the top speed of a Model 70 is 82Mph, might be worth getting em changed! dont wanna have a high speed blowout while your cruising down Lane 3 flashing Audi's out of the way 

(and probably the more pressing matter of I am not entirely sure PC Plod/VOSA and Mr Insurance would be happy to hear someones put trailer tyres on a motor vehicle!)

 

 

and on the flip side when researching the road vehicle tyres I had fitted to REV, it was somewhat tricky finding decent reviews of them, because half the people buying them said "Oh I have no idea what this is like for road use I just bought em for my trailer!" LOL

I did make him aware of the trailer tyres when he bought it.

 

to be honest I hardly drove much faster than 45 anyway as I was way too scared to go any faster 😂

[DVee8]

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, DVee8 said:

Tis a Scootacar microcar  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scootacar

rather then any sort of invalid vehicle (although it was not unknown for such small micro cars to be fitted with adapted controls back in the day and a play a similar roll) 

still a cool period photo nonetheless  

[ETCHY]

Is there a book of any description coming out on  Invacars ?
I thought i'd seen one mentioned on here a while back but i'm old & confused so might have imagined it !

[MGBetts]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Tis a Scootacar microcar  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scootacar

rather then any sort of invalid vehicle (although it was not unknown for such small micro cars to be fitted with adapted controls back in the day and a play a similar roll) 

still a cool period photo nonetheless  

According to Wikipedia, "Two people could be carried with a passenger behind the driver or alternatively just squeezed in alongside."  Nice to see her in the NHS ice-blue too!

[Eyersey1234]

1 hour ago, ETCHY said:

Is there a book of any description coming out on  Invacars ?
I thought i'd seen one mentioned on here a while back but i'm old & confused so might have imagined it !

I believe one was being written though im not sure if it has been published