invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

spotted this while browsing the austin maxi thread, im trying to work out why its so cheap! because on the surface it fits mums criterias! 

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/austin/maxi/114471

to those who know Maxi's ( @quicksilver @Slowsilver ?  ) it would be interesting to hear what your thoughts on it are, or if theres something wrong with it, or just maxi's in general that you think may make them/it unsuitable 

(I dont know what parts are like etc)

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, keef said:

It's an old (at least three years) out of date advert.

Now part of Martin C's fleet, I believe.

ah never mind then, my bad!

although in my defence I dont see anything in the page that indicates how long its been listed for!

[keef]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah never mind then, my bad!

although in my defence I dont see anything in the page that indicates how long its been listed for!

It's very bad that these adverts aren't removed on sale of the car, but I am afraid it is all too common.

No doubt the seller keeps getting pestered by eager buyers.

 

[quicksilver]

15 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

spotted this while browsing the austin maxi thread, im trying to work out why its so cheap! because on the surface it fits mums criterias! 

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/austin/maxi/114471

to those who know Maxi's ( @quicksilver @Slowsilver ?  ) it would be interesting to hear what your thoughts on it are, or if theres something wrong with it, or just maxi's in general that you think may make them/it unsuitable 

(I dont know what parts are like etc)

Wow, that is an old advert as it says it has MOT until May 2016! £500 would be very cheap for a roadworthy Maxi nowadays and a good one is in the region of £2-3000. A Maxi possibly would fit your mum's criteria but the rod gearchange, while much better than the cable, is still a bit clunky so it might get tiresome in London traffic - an automatic might be a better bet but they're much less common. Spares availability isn't bad as the club spares officer (Ernie) has stock of most things and a lot are shared with the Mini, but a few important bits are unobtainium, notably front wings and exhausts (Ernie did have some of the latter but has recently sold the last one and can't get any more). I don't think a Maxi would be a bad choice really, it's very practical, comfortable and will happily keep up with modern traffic when she wants to do longer trips.

[keef]

3 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

 and exhausts (Ernie did have some of the latter but has recently sold the last one and can't get any more).

Brendon Dooley has had some made see Facebook Group - Austin Maxi.

 

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Wow, that is an old advert as it says it has MOT until May 2016! £500 would be very cheap for a roadworthy Maxi nowadays and a good one is in the region of £2-3000. A Maxi possibly would fit your mum's criteria but the rod gearchange, while much better than the cable, is still a bit clunky so it might get tiresome in London traffic - an automatic might be a better bet but they're much less common. Spares availability isn't bad as the club spares officer (Ernie) has stock of most things and a lot are shared with the Mini, but a few important bits are unobtainium, notably front wings and exhausts (Ernie did have some of the latter but has recently sold the last one and can't get any more). I don't think a Maxi would be a bad choice really, it's very practical, comfortable and will happily keep up with modern traffic when she wants to do longer trips.

ah good spot on the date, I think I sort of subconsciously read that as the 16th of may!

I appreciate the thoughts overall, ill keep the maxi in mind  although sounds like they may be a bit out of budget sadly

BTW @keef I noticed MWC821P a while back in your signature, well go back a few registrations you hit the MWC710P-MWC809P Block of Invacar Model 70's  

[quicksilver]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:03 PM, Mr Pastry said:

Occasionally you find one where it says "Propelled by:  ICE"  rather than petrol , meaning internal combustion engine.  

I know what it's supposed to mean but that did conjure up a mental image that made me chuckle, of shovelling blocks of frozen water into a Model 70 to make it run.  I'm rushing off to patent the brilliant* idea of an ice-powered car now.

[quicksilver]

4 minutes ago, keef said:

Brendon Dooley has had some made see Facebook Group - Austin Maxi.

 

Good to know, thanks. Ernie sold his last exhaust literally the day before my dad rang him to buy one

[keef]

28 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

BTW @keef I noticed MWC821P a while back in your signature, well go back a few registrations you hit the MWC710P-MWC809P Block of Invacar Model 70's  

I christened her Leak on the WC and P in the registration number.

She was originally an auto, but a previous owner converter her to manual. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, keef said:

I christened her Leak on the WC and P in the registration number.

She was originally an auto, but a previous owner converter her to manual. 

hah cool

spotted another moggie that looks to have just been listed, looks quite promising I think, for one the seller actually includes some pictures of the underside which is a first so far! and it sounds like its had a good portion of important work done I think ill send this one to mum see what she thinks of it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264582195337

it is an auction tho so could easily go out of budget

[Mr Pastry]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

hah cool

spotted another moggie that looks to have just been listed, looks quite promising I think, for one the seller actually includes some pictures of the underside which is a first so far! and it sounds like its had a good portion of important work done I think ill send this one to mum see what she thinks of it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-minor/264582195337

it is an auction tho so could easily go out of budget

Seems like an honest description but personally I don't think I'd buy it unseen.  It may be rougher than it looks, and the underside the photos don't show quite enough.  Promising though.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Seems like an honest description but personally I don't think I'd buy it unseen.  It may be rougher than it looks, and the underside the photos don't show quite enough.  Promising though.

indeed id want to see it in person too before committing to buy, this would be true for any minor or such vehicle  

the rust he does mention has me a bit worried, although it does not sound too structural, just have to be careful when jacking it it sounds! but again im not an expert in the matter!

(and he says he has repair bits for that included so in time we theoretically could have a garage weld those in)

[Mr Pastry]

The centre crossmember is fairly critical as the torsion bars are anchored to it, so it carries a lot of the front suspension loads and feeds them into the floor and sills, so it does need to be reasonably solid.  The centre section is often OK as it is usually covered in oil.  The outer ends do serve as jacking points, but that is not their main function.  I would also want to see how well the chassis rail replacement has been done.

 

[Mr Pastry]

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/morris/minor/body-chassis/chassis-subframes/underframe-panels-minor-1951-71.html

25, 27, 29, 31.

[LightBulbFun]

59 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

The centre crossmember is fairly critical as the torsion bars are anchored to it, so it carries a lot of the front suspension loads and feeds them into the floor and sills, so it does need to be reasonably solid.  The centre section is often OK as it is usually covered in oil.  The outer ends do serve as jacking points, but that is not their main function.  I would also want to see how well the chassis rail replacement has been done.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/morris/minor/body-chassis/chassis-subframes/underframe-panels-minor-1951-71.html

25, 27, 29, 31.

ah very interesting  

good to know about the center section, ill keep it in mind

as mentioned im/we are not looking for another project persay, we are looking for something that can be pressed into use immediately upon acquiring it

however I understand that things overtime will need attention regardless so I dont mind buying a car that does need a bit of work somewhere, but not somewhere that would make the car unsafe to drive, or stop it being used if that makes sense!

[Six-cylinder]

Setting aside the inconvenience of having a car from a different era as everyday transport such as heating and demisting there is the much higher maintenance an old car requires.

Before you commit to buying something old please do some research as to where you would get it maintained locally to you. Not every garage would want to deal with classic cars.

The Minor you showed for auction looks a good starting point, but I am concerned if you can't do the work yourself (servicing it, bringing it up to MOT standard, attending to the pinion oil leak, fitting the new shock absorbers and welding) then these are going to cost a small fortune.  I could see little change from £2000 getting the work done by a garage. I would recommend making a list and getting some estimates. Then you can budget accordingly!

[beko1987]

Jesus a minor? I'd feel suicidal driving that up the m40 and back every day! 

Having just watched top gear, you want a 1l saxo or 106. Or a 206. Cheap ideal first car fodder

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Setting aside the inconvenience of having a car from a different era as everyday transport such as heating and demisting there is the much higher maintenance an old car requires.

Before you commit to buying something old please do some research as to where you would get it maintained locally to you. Not every garage would want to deal with classic cars.

The Minor you showed for auction looks a good starting point, but I am concerned if you can't do the work yourself (servicing it, bringing it up to MOT standard, attending to the pinion oil leak, fitting the new shock absorbers and welding) then these are going to cost a small fortune.  I could see little change from £2000 getting the work done by a garage. I would recommend making a list and getting some estimates. Then you can budget accordingly!

indeed those are good points, as mentioned I plan to make a day trip out at some point relatively and see if I can talk to the Morris minor owners that live near here and see how they handle things   

(as mentioned previously I know of 3 Moggies that live on the street in the surrounding area, they must get them serviced/welded somewhere!)

34 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

Jesus a minor? I'd feel suicidal driving that up the m40 and back every day! 

Having just watched top gear, you want a 1l saxo or 106. Or a 206. Cheap ideal first car fodder

haha, I best not mention my eventual plan to drive down to Glasgow in REV to go see GPG721K in person then?  (but mums commute does not involve motorways)

 sadly ULEZ kills off most 1980's to late 1990's cars that otherwise would be a more sensible idea while still fitting my mums criteria

(as a side note this would hardly be my mums first car!)

[plasticvandan]

I would imagine the cost of paying to keep a rough minor in the road would outweigh the cost of ULEZ....

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, plasticvandan said:

I would imagine the cost of paying to keep a rough minor in the road would outweigh the cost of ULEZ....

ULEZ is a £12.50 daily charge, since we live in the soon to be ULEZ zone, that would get very expensive very quickly

£4.5K a year, and I dont maintaining a Morris minor is THAT expensive LOL

 

[Mrs6C]

Interesting. At the TfL link below, the following is stated:

"The charges only need to be paid if you drive your vehicle within the zone. Parked vehicles are not subject to any charges."

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/lez-lez-services-37309

If that's the case, the charge would only be due on the days the car is driven. If your Mum goes to work by car an average of three days a week, say, across 48 out of 52 weeks in the year (allowing 4 weeks for holidays) that's £1800/year. On that basis, a more modern car wouldn't be so bad.

[overrun]

LBF, listen to these people...

You haven’t the first idea what garage rates can be like. That £4K wouldn’t last long if you were paying someone to change bulbs and wiper blades. Let alone major welding and mechanical work.

[captain_70s]

Every time I've ever taken an old car to the garage I've left with at least £300 less. With the 70s motors in daily use I was frequently spending that every month + spending my own weekends frantically spannering to keep whichever car was still going functional. Pretty much every weekend, and several evenings after work I'd be working on a car. By torch light with an aching back from trying to reach barely accessible bolts without would inevitably round off.

Even a simple job would rapidly descend to farcical levels of work and greater cost. A case in point was when the Doloshite's front downpipe rusted away.

First bill was £50 for a mild steel downpipe - Arrived and had no hope of fitting, couldn't afford to post it back, supplier said they'd never had any complaints before and my car must be the wrong shape.
Second was taking it to a local place to have a pipe made up. Quoted at £100 + being without a car for a day.
Upon removal a stud sheared off the downpipe/manifold join. The exhaust specialist didn't have the equipment required to sort it so I had the pipe made up and took it to another garage. No room to get in with the thing in situ so the carb, inlet and exhaust manifold all had to come off and a new stud tapped in. This was £120 + another day without a car.
4 days later I noticed the exhaust had rattled loose as a mount had failed further down the system. When tightening the nuts back up the new stud sheared off.

Net result was a week driving without an exhaust where I got pulled up by neighbours in the local shop as I was waking them up when driving to work in the morning, £170 (out of a total of £270) spent for absolutely no gain whatsoever and two days without transport. This was pretty much typical every month, whether it was a alternator dying because a bolt rattled loose and the bearings got mullered or a starter motor frying itself because oil was leaking on to it, shocks giving up due to sheer age, prop mounts disintegrating, etc.

 When welding is required that pretty much wrote off my 1850 which went from "fine" one year to £800 worth of work the next. The Acclaim was worse, getting it repaired to a decent standard by a garage would be the best part of £1500 in welding alone without batting an eyelid, and that had clean MOT passes for several years prior.

Then there was the driving experience. I love old cars, but they are properly shit. Especially cars that were basic/cheap even when new 50 years ago. The heating/demisting in the Dolly was miserable and you had to choose which one you got, plus it leaked so the inside was always damp, all my tools went rusty because I kept them in the boot. The brakes were naff and in busy traffic you'd find modern motors barging in front without leaving you enough space to stop safely, merging on to motorways was equal parts lethal and terrifying, people miss the feeble brake lights and the lack of side repeaters.
When my Dolly died at a set of traffic lights I had to try and push it through a junction with my girlfriend to get it out of the way of yelling and honking motorists behind me, halfway across the junction the lights changed and traffic charged at me from the side blaring horns and yelling. I had to get the car up onto the pavement out of traffic and wait for it to cool down and pray the police didn't swing by and do me for illegal parking. There was a chap on the TDC forum a few years ago who bought a Dolly 1300 as his first car and it ended up getting him fired as he was late for work several times due to FTPs. You'll get no sympathy from employers or the general public for attempting to run an ancient car.

Honestly for me the whole experience of dailying a classic car was thoroughly ruined by actually doing it. I mean, sure you could probably do alright if you bought a properly good car to start with or had a long period of time and the finances to bring it up to scratch before using it but for me the Acclaim is about as far down the rabbit hole as I intend to go, and that isn't even MOT/tax/ULEZ exempt so it still costs a bomb...

[mrbenn]

@captain_70s A harrowing tale there, fair play to you for continuing to run a classic as a daily. I've followed your exploits with admiration for some time.

Genuine question, honestly not being a dick here, but what made you get rid of the modern Civic rather than sell one or both of the Triumphs? Apologies if you've already covered this.

[captain_70s]

19 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Genuine question, honestly not being a dick here, but what made you get rid of the modern Civic rather than sell one or both of the Triumphs? Apologies if you've already covered this.

It was old enough to start having issues and new enough to be a pain to fix. Several winters in Scotland had taken it's toll and what started off as a change of brake pads rapidly descended to a full brake rebuild on the back end inc calipers and discs. I bailed at that point because every bolt I tried to undo rounded off or snapped and it spent several weeks outside my flat on axle stands. I also had suspicions of the PAS being on it's way out as well as a variety of minor niggles. The repairs were going to be more than the car was worth if done by a garage, the guy who bought it ended up breaking it for parts IIRC.

Replaced it with the Acclaim to take advantage of classic car insurance, the Civic was £600+ to insure and all my mate's pay the same for moderns + finance payments, the Acclaim is £200 a year and as long as I do 90% of the repairs myself it is cheap to run. I also can't stand modern cars, they just generate a misery in me which is ever so slightly worse than the misery brought on by running old shit. Slightly. Except now it's winter and the Acclaim needs a service and I hate myself.

I still have the Dolly because I didn't live through the nightmare to sack the ungrateful shit heap off now... I WILL get my enjoyment out of it, if it kills me.

[LightBulbFun]

those are all very good points, and remember im mostly in agreement with yall here! 

as much as id love for mum to get something old, id realistically find her a nice K11 Micra or Pug 107 or something along those lines, but mum has said what she wants, all im trying to do is find something that fits what she wants

but then again same could be said for myself, I knew/know the sensible route for myself would of been to get myself a K11 micra or something, but we all know what happened there  

so im not going to complain if she wants something old, especially as its for some of the same reasons I got the Invacar

I like your writeup @captain_70s its a good hard POV on old daily car ownership. and I think ill directly show it to her as an example/counter argument to her idea

but I will say as my own counter argument, something like your exhaust woes could have easily happen with any car be it 40 or 15 years old, iv heard plenty of stories of moderns going wrong and being a PITA to work on

(and thats one of the things that puts mum off moderns, not helped by a bad experience with a 2006 renault megane that she owned back in 2014 or so)

for example on that megan, all the electric windows packed up on a cold winter day days after she bought the car leaving us all freezing inside

(ended up waiting for 2 hours while the last owner came out with a block of wood to prop the window up closed)

and this is one of the reasons my mum wants something old, as she knows cars go wrong, so she rather have to deal with something relatively familiar and simple, rather then something complicated and unfamiliar, for when things do inevitably go tits up

 

(as a side note, mum still has the option of public transport, as mentioned she wants a car just to make the commute easier for her but its not a necessity, but it would not be the end of the world if say she gets in the car to go to work and it wont start, since she can simply get out and go to work by public transport and sort the car out later)

[LightBulbFun]

On 12/12/2019 at 8:44 PM, LightBulbFun said:

got another Mk12 chassis number im trying to find the registration number of, I found the FTW701H-FTW800H block, and the GEV201H-GEV300H block, the only problem is the chassis number sits in a block between those 2 blocks

and I searched through FVW-H FVX-H and FWC-H and did not find any blocks!, so im going to search again just incase I missed a block somehow

wonder if this guy liked his boeings  

 

 

On 12/14/2019 at 2:34 AM, LightBulbFun said:

the ghost of bert greeves/derry preston cob must be having a right laugh about now

because I thought, alright ill put this one to one side and try find the registration of another Mk12 survivor I know of

and guess what it sits in a block of 100 between DPU501G-DPU600G, and EEV801G-EEV900G, that mysteriously cant be found!

I searched DTW-G, DVX-G DVW-G and DWC-G and turned up once again no blocks or any signs there once was a block

I must be missing something, but if I was suddenly making a mistake with my block finding then id not be able to find any blocks, but i still am finding blocks...

the other thing is generally for a given 4 registration series there will generally always be an invacar block in at least 1 of those, and yet in those 4 series I found nothing...

(generally iv found there to be about 2-4 invacar blocks per the 9 Essex markers of Pre 1974 for a given leading letter)

ill go over the DTW-G DVX-G DVW-G and DWC-G reg ranges again tomoz to be safe but it is quite perplexing thats its seemingly happened twice now!

 

Woo! I finally have this one cracked and mostly figured out

I noticed while studying early Invacar Model 70 blocks that although they went up alphabetically for the most part I noticed that xOO-x blocks did not

for example it went XVX-L then XOO-L, so I wondered just now does the same apply to Mk12 blocks? and low and behold it does!

I never searched OO because it was alphabetically before the 2 blocks the mystery block sat between

so it turns out it goes in this case DPU501G-DPU600G, DOO801G-DOO900G, EEV801G-EEV900G

and for the other FTW701H-FTW800H FOO101H-FOO200H GEV201H-GEV300H

so it looks like the 2 surviving Mk12's I was trying to ID are DOO867G and FOO134H if my maths are correct  

 

im very happy to have finally solved this mystery as its been bugging me for a while now! and finally let me ID these 2 surviving Mk12s  

 

its worth noting that according to this website http://www.londonbusroutes.net/miscellaneous/regs.htm#council

OO and WC where only added the Essex reg series in the 1960's and its behavior of being out of alphabetical order 

matches the out of alphabetical order behaviour the 1974+ Essex markers display in Invacar registration blocks

 

and looking at things further it looks like the blocks went up alphabetically but first in date of introduction, so it would start with the Original group of Essex markers first, then going to OO and WC that was added in the 1960s then going to the 1974+ markers in the case of the later Model 70 blocks, im happy to have also figured this small bit out, as I have wondered why the 1974+ blocks did not go up entirely alphabetically, turns out they did just in 3 separate groups  

 

[egg]

Random Invacar pic of the day for you....

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

Random Invacar pic of the day for you....

Oh cool not a picture I have seen before I dont think  (but it does look a bit familiar...)

where did ya find it/do you know any details about it?

its an Invacar Mk12D or Mk12E, and it still has its chassis plate I think, so I should be able to ID it  

[egg]

I've registered on the greeves riders forum - on the hunt for any villiers info really, but a search on the forum produced this pic...