HMC WBOD news

[SiC]

I really want to hate VAG. Yet they're comfortable, almost all go well, well specced, nice places to sit, generally inoffensive looking and plentiful of parts. It's why we have a 196k example of a A4 B8 still after 3 years with zero plans to replace. 

There is sweet spots of VAG. If you hit the right ones they're decent machines. Get the wrong ones they're horrendous. Many just do what the yanks say, Nickle and Dime you with many small but persistence different problems. 

[Marm Toastsmith]

I don't understand the VAG hate but I think it's probably something to do with the anti-shite semi "premium" brand status together with the scene/tax around older cars which is daft but probably less so than say for classic Fords.

Personally I've owned dozens of cheaply bought and mostly poorly maintained VAG vehicles which have all provided charming, rugged, and typically reliable transport. They're not perfect but what is?

I bet that Audi is a lovely thing to cruise (blast?) around in. Well bought!

[wuvvum]

18 minutes ago, marm said:

I don't understand the VAG hate but I think it's probably something to do with the anti-shite semi "premium" brand status together with the scene/tax around older cars which is daft but probably less so than say for classic Fords.

I think it's the fact that they're overrated - the myth of superior build quality and reliability still persists when a Mk4 or Mk5 Golf is no better built or more reliable than the equivalent Focus.  They're not actively bad cars - some of them have annoying faults, but then so do most brands.  I've had a number of Audis and quite liked them.

[HMC]

I find one of the most annoying day to day niggles on early 00s VAG is the rubberised coating they used to (still?) put on switches/ buttons etc. It sort of goes soft/ gooey or peels off and feels like someone’s smeared a half eaten wine gum over it. Perceived quality own goal.

[wuvvum]

Early 2000s Fiats did the same thing.  Apparently isopropyl alcohol is good for getting rid of the gooeyness.

[SiC]

So do early 2000 Renaults. A cleaning product called Elbow Grease is supposed to work well. 

Our 2010 A4 did away with the rubberised coating and went for smooth plastic made in high quality injection moulds. So still looking mostly fine after almost 197k miles. 

[Marm Toastsmith]

28 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I think it's the fact that they're overrated - the myth of superior build quality and reliability still persists when a Mk4 or Mk5 Golf is no better built or more reliable than the equivalent Focus.  They're not actively bad cars - some of them have annoying faults, but then so do most brands.  I've had a number of Audis and quite liked them.

It's fair to argue that VW lost their competitive edge around the turn of the century, and that at times they have traded on reputation and perceived quality. But at the same time there do seem to be more Mk4 Golfs still on the road than there are Mk1 Focuses about.  At least around here...

It always seemed that the Focus was the first car that really gave the Golf a run for it's money. Given that the Golf came out in the mid 70s (and remained light years ahead of anything Ford were making throughout the 80s) you can see how VW built their reputation. I reckon up to the end of the 90s VAG stuff WAS better built than most of the competition, at least from Europe. Not always better to drive, obviously.

For me the early 00s is where they lost it slightly... the cars becoming bloated and full of plastic rather than their solidly engineered predecessors. But they made cars that people wanted.

 

[Split_Pin]

My 80 Cabrio has excellent build quality. Every nut and bolt looks well engineered  and isn't rusted solid. 

 

[HMC]

I remember my dad came back without his company mk1 vectra one day but with a new b5 Passat. Small things but I remember the purple backlighting and how the door hinge had this engineered progressive opening feel. I suppose those little details (oh plus the air vents whose slats would close flush) had a certain appeal to some. I loved those details aged 16. Sad but true.

[Marm Toastsmith]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:48 PM, wuvvum said:

a Mk4 Golf is no better built or more reliable than the equivalent Focus

This kind of reminded me I really should own a mk1 focus before they all disappear. I've had a Mk4 Golf and it was good. Not perfect, and admittedly a bit dull in some respects, but for a cheap car, hard to complain, very well built, felt classy in spite of age and mileage, went well, and cheap to keep. It had a few silly issues but nothing major broke in my ownership. I absolutely loved my Ford Ka, but despite being a low mileage, well maintained car, in a brief period of ownership it fell apart in front of my eyes, and would have made for expensive motoring if I'd kept it long term.

Just had a look on eBay. Hardly any Mk1 Focusses for sale. Loads and loads of Mk4 Golfs. The Focus might have handled well and had nice plastic in it but in terms of long term ruggedness it's hard to beat old VAG shite. For me long term survival is really what defines build quality...

[wuvvum]

The Focus rusted worse than the Golf, but I think the other reason there are more Golfs around is that the residuals were higher because VAG so they're less likely to have been scrapped.

[HMC]

I did look at HML and from memory year 2000 models still around 11k foci and 12k golfs- I think they shifted about 130k foci that year in the uk and a lot less golfs, so the rate of attrition is certainly different.

edit- here are uk golf registrations doesn’t have year 2000 but presumably not much different than 2001 

[HMC]

Ps whilst I remember here’s a golf v5 I’ve just bought

[Asimo]

I've just binned a perfectly functional food mixer because it's "soft touch" plastic went all Golf mk4.

Isopropyl alcohol, petrol, thinners: nothing would get rid of the slime.

 V5 engine,.  Would like to try.  Did they ever do a 2 door Bora?

[sdkrc]

4 minutes ago, Asimo said:

Did they ever do a 2 door Bora?

I wish

[Marm Toastsmith]

1 hour ago, HMC said:

Ps whilst I remember here’s a golf v5 I’ve just bought

ooh nice. auto or manual?

[Jamie]

i had a passat V5 a few years back, ive had some juicy cars in my time (v8 M3 etc) etc, but my GOD that V5 was the worst car ive ever owned on fuel , sounded nice but  averaged about 13 mpg.

 

[dave j]

I had a V5 Bora, sounded lovely and went well enough for me, did like a drink though! 

[HMC]

We all know gumtree can be a dangerous place (spoiler alert). In and around broken x boxes and unwanted exercise equipment of course is the car section. It seems to bring out of the woodwork people only able to type numbers in response to adverts (offers of money? It’s never very clear) I managed to string a few sentences of actual words together and as a result I have another car.

I seem to have forgotten I already own a mk4 golf as I have bought another one. 

 

It’s a 2000 X 1.6 se manual in a tasteful black with tan velour. It drives “ok” as it is a golf mk4, I can’t really describe it as driving “well”. It’s just turned 20 years old and has no rust. Some minor touch parking but it’s pretty tidy. It is 20 after all. SE in y2k meant a choice of either a sunroof OR climate control. Our buyer decided on the latter and it still works. 
 

This was registered at a time where there was much hand wringing about cars being cheaper in Europe. It might be for that reason that it had its PDI in Belgium, yet is a uk, rhd spec with mph instrument pack etc, has a south west London registration but it’s first service in Barnstaple, north Devon (where I picked it up from) 

Anyway, where’s the fun in having a set of golfs when you don’t take pictures of them both together......

 

[HMC]

On 9/17/2020 at 9:48 PM, marm said:

ooh nice. auto or manual?

Manual. I’ve googled the engine code and it’s the 170 rather than 150 BHP (something to do with more valves apparently )

[hairnet]

On 9/17/2020 at 8:44 PM, Asimo said:

  Did they ever do a 2 door Bora?

On 9/17/2020 at 8:49 PM, sdkrc said:

I wish

no but people have made them

 

[hairnet]

ps audi wanker vag bummer german apologist etc

bit like me - no need for it but wanted one so did

sounds like you did too

not an airbag one is it?

[Jamie]

Do have a soft spot for a mk4. Had plenty pd diesels. Great cars well put together 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Nothing wrong with the Mk.4 Golfs, as long as you avoid the 1.4 16v. Gutless. Low-geared. Not a motorway car. Guess which one my sister had?

[Matty]

I had a mk3 golf gti up till last year. Weve just replaced a mk4 gti 20vt but I've kept the car. Going to be my winter beater. Bought with 150 thou on it now on 200 thou. Both cars were absolutly faultless but the mk4 especially drove like a new car and everything still works. Bearing in mind its on a 99 t plate. Say what you like about modern vag stuff cos that really is a bag of shite trading on past glories but the mk 4 golf/bora is a high water mark. Not that interesting ill grant you but just plain good

[HMC]

Just realised that yesterday marked 10 years of existing on the forum. That’s over 3650 days of probably checking in every day (!)

Around that time I had a £120 Volvo 240 glt estate and a £250 e34 525 amongst others. I think whilst the cars at the bottom end back then are now bona fide classics (with similarly larger price tags) My interest in cheap cars is still just as keen. Actually there is a bit of a pattern as they were about 20 years old and so are my current cars!

10 years on what will you be driving? what cheap stuff now will be more pricey in 10 years? Over to you

[DoctorRetro]

35 minutes ago, HMC said:

Just realised that yesterday marked 10 years of existing on the forum. That’s over 3650 days of probably checking in every day (!)

Around that time I had a £120 Volvo 240 glt estate and a £250 e34 525 amongst others. I think whilst the cars at the bottom end back then are now bona fide classics (with similarly larger price tags) My interest in cheap cars is still just as keen. Actually there is a bit of a pattern as they were about 20 years old and so are my current cars!

10 years on what will you be driving? what cheap stuff now will be more pricey in 10 years? Over to you

I reckon we'll all* be drooling over Hyundai I30 estates and that you won't be able to get a mk3 Fiesta for less than 3k.

*well, Autoshite members 

[Marm Toastsmith]

10 years ago I had an e28 520i which I paid £400 for and a Golf mk1 convertible which I got for nothing and sold for about £800. Actually the e28 was one of the few cars I kept for long enough to see the value rise, if only by a few hundred quid. Not quite as cheap as HMC's motors but still very affordable, and now bona fide classics. Both were relatively hassle free and cheap to run. I owned them at the right time.

Generally speaking, if we kept them for long enough to see values rise we'd miss out on owning loads of other great cars at the bottom of the curve... plus often the older they get the harder they become to maintain. Parts are cheaper for bangers than they are for classics!

In ten years time I'm looking forward to cheap hybrid and electric vehicles. Imagine a Tesla for less than a grand... I wonder what it would be like? Or a Nissan e-NV200 as a cheap DIY camper/day van? Plus there are a few fun and interesting designs amid the mainstream dross. The Citroen Cactus springs to mind. A BMW 1 series (saloon or cab) or an Audi A1 would also appeal for a bit of cute compact class on the cheap. And Audi A7s have a presence about them that would be hard to resist for, say, £500.

The future looks bright to me...

[SiC]

2 hours ago, HMC said:

what cheap stuff now will be more pricey in 10 years? Over to you

Anything with a decent engine - i.e. 6cyl or 8cyl. Also powerful n/a vehicles. 

Almost certain the Clio 172/182, Civic type-R and the like will be at price levels of Renault 5 GT Turbo, 205 GTi and other revered 80s hot hatches are now. Just see current liability levels at the moment on them! They'll carry on being stripped + smashed on the track and broken for parts. 

RX8 will do alright as quirky styling like nothing else and quirky engine. 

[SiC]

2 hours ago, HMC said:

10 years on what will you be driving?

There really isn't much that I find interesting which is 10yrs old now and will be interesting at 20yrs old? Everything is direct injection petrol but rare as everyone went common rail diesel. These have DPF and the like. Petrols will just be carbon up and lacking performance. Especially against electric cars in 10yrs. 

Even worse is 20yrs time will just be a this SUV shit, with tiny petrols strapped to turbos that is so popular now.