Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar, Volvo & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 09/10.

[PhilA]

Ignore the low fuel light terminal should be fine, that should just ground when it reaches a low point.

 

Moving iron meter probably better because a moving coil meter, even a damped one, will be more of a g-force meter on the move.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

Moving iron meter probably better because a moving coil meter, even a damped one, will be more of a g-force meter on the move.

 

Phil

I really need to do a video of the Lada's one someday.

 

From a steady 1/3 tank full when stationary I can peg it off scale full when turning right, then have it showing empty with the light on when turning the other way. That's half the fun though...

 

More I'm thinking about it I'll probably just get that gauge and sender...given the amount of rust in this gauge there's no guarantee of reliability and it'll probably be near impossible to see after dark.

[LightBulbFun]

I'm assuming - purely based on the visual appearance - that the one fitted to TWC and that the eBay seller there has is a later Veglia one, the one I have here being Smith's made and common to a plethora of British motors across the board in the 60s and 70s.

 

The headache is that there are two main types - moving iron and moving coil. The difference between them being that one uses a sender where low resistance = full indication, and the other (helpfully!) does exactly the opposite. As far as I'm aware there's no visible way to tell them apart.

 

There is a temptation just to grab the gauge and sender from there - though I've already spent quite a lot on cars this month so need to think about it. Especially as I prefer the look of the older style gauge...

 

when you mention the 2 different types Moving iron and moving coil

 

do you mean that Model 70s had/used both of those types or that just in general those where the 2 main types for cars back then?

 

(also prolly making this sound way easier then it is, but how hard would fabricating your own sender unit be? seeing as in principle its literally a floaty bit of plastic on a stick glued to a variable resistor basically )

[Zelandeth]

In principle it's easy. It's just a float attached to a potentiometer.

 

However it's an electrical device, with one side connected directly to 12V which resides inside a tank full of flammable liquid and potentially explosive vapour. I'm leaving that to those who know what they're doing. Especially for the sake of less than £50. If senders cost hundreds of pounds then yes, I'd be considering a more inventive approach maybe. However I kinda prefer my cars intact rather than ending up with the only remains showing the result of my experimentation being a smouldering crater where my garage used to be.

 

As it is I've decided to just grab that sender and gauge then figure out which combination of bits work. The sender is the most important bit I need at this point as it's absence will leave a gaping hole in the side of the fuel tank when it arrives which is kinda an issue. Getting the gauge working is a ways down the priority list in theory. However this is also me, so fixing that will probably wind up being prioritised over stuff which is actually far more important!

 

I've also (finally) got a new air filter on the way. That's been the first item marked on the whiteboard for months. I may well look for one of the larger type air cleaners at some point as the small one can't do breathing any favours.

 

All being well I'm hoping to get at least a bit of bodywork done tomorrow. Not sure if it will be something small or if I aim at some of the more large scale reconstruction...

[Zelandeth]

So I've made a bit of a start on the bodywork today.
Before:


 

After:



Will still need finishing work along the base, reinforcing from behind the panel, a shedload of filler and paint obviously...but I think it's fair to say it's a step in the right direction.

The jack is holding the panel up to keep the crack by the indicator closed while the resin sets fully, the whole lower edge had dropped because of that damage.

I think the pot of resin, dry mat and a paintbrush approach instructed on the tin of resin is getting ignored next time as it was a bloody swine to work with.  Last time I did any glass fibre work I used a paint roller tray, thoroughly saturated the mat, placed it on the area concerned and then just worked any air out from under it with a brush...of course still playing the game of using the right amount of hardener so that it sets reasonably quickly, but not too quickly...
 

I know it's far from a professional job, but it feels like progress.

[Andyrew]

It's done now but ideally you want to drill a hole at the end of any large cracks to prevent them cracking further.

 

The patch that's going over the blue paint/gel coat may crack or delaminate from the surface

[Andyrew]

I repaired this in the summer after mentioning I had done bodywork and bits on

Composite materials in my old job to someone.

 

It was busted into 3 large peices, covered

In oil inside and it was needed to be done

When we had the heatwave.

 

Took about 20hours, fibreglass sucks.

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

So I've made a bit of a start on the bodywork today.

Before:

 

IMG_20190109_165332.jpg

 

After:

 

IMG_20190109_164520.jpg

 

Will still need finishing work along the base, reinforcing from behind the panel, a shedload of filler and paint obviously...but I think it's fair to say it's a step in the right direction.

 

The jack is holding the panel up to keep the crack by the indicator closed while the resin sets fully, the whole lower edge had dropped because of that damage.

 

I think the pot of resin, dry mat and a paintbrush approach instructed on the tin of resin is getting ignored next time as it was a bloody swine to work with.  Last time I did any glass fibre work I used a paint roller tray, thoroughly saturated the mat, placed it on the area concerned and then just worked any air out from under it with a brush...of course still playing the game of using the right amount of hardener so that it sets reasonably quickly, but not too quickly...

 

I know it's far from a professional job, but it feels like progress.

 

very cool to see body work repairs being attempted

 

I wonder if it would help if DW could grab close up pictures of TWCs front corners, I imagine it might help you get the shape and counters better

 

I look forward to seeing how it goes

[Zelandeth]

It's a pretty simple shape really, there's enough left to make a reasonable guess with a few photos from the internet.

 

I'm not kidding myself that the corner is probably going to need more detailed attention at some point in the future. The gel coat is blown to hell and the surface will probably spall all over the place at some point. This is the first time I'm really doing stuff like this so I'm basically just aiming to make it tidy enough and to satisfy the MOT Tester at this point.

 

The future will involve lots and lots and lots of sanding. Which I ain't doing buried in the back of the garage.

[Zelandeth]

It's done now but ideally you want to drill a hole at the end of any large cracks to prevent them cracking further.

 

The patch that's going over the blue paint/gel coat may crack or delaminate from the surface

Cheers for the pointer, makes sense from a physics perspective but wouldn't have thought of it. Will do that when dealing with the next large cracks.

 

Delamination is going to be an issue everywhere I think - I'm just going for "attack it with a screwdriver beforehand" to try to get any really loose stuff off.

[mrbenn]

That corner looks great, well done.

 

Out of interest, have you replaced the headlamp bezels? The ones on TWC look ready to turn to dust yet these appear in good condition.

[Zelandeth]

That corner looks great, well done.

 

Out of interest, have you replaced the headlamp bezels? The ones on TWC look ready to turn to dust yet these appear in good condition.

They're from one of the bags of bits which came with KP I think. The bowls are still the ones from TP though. There's quite a bit of pitting on trim rings but they're perfectly serviceable. These were the best two out of eight or so that were in the bag.

 

Headlights were bought in error by me years ago...was originally planning on binning them and replacing them with something more age appropriate...however they actually seem to work really well so might well wind up sticking around as decent headlights are kinda useful.

[Zelandeth]

Finally!

 

 

So the only thing standing between TP and the road now is an MOT and a bit of paperwork at the post office once that is in hand.

[LightBulbFun]

Woo! congrats on getting the V5

 

do V5s still list how many previous keepers there where?

 

would be interesting to see how many TPA has had

[dozeydustman]

Have you got the 10 litre engine size like DW's V5 stated for TWC?

[Zelandeth]

Four former keepers apparently, and yes the engine size is still listed as 9999cc. There's a lot of blank space on the V5, so will investigate if some of the empty fields can be corrected at a later date.

 

 

No real reason aside from it being the sort of thing that will irritate me if it can be fixed and I don't. 

[LightBulbFun]

Four former keepers apparently, and yes the engine size is still listed as 9999cc. There's a lot of blank space on the V5, so will investigate if some of the empty fields can be corrected at a later date.

 

IMG_20190110_140510.jpg

 

No real reason aside from it being the sort of thing that will irritate me if it can be fixed and I don't. 

 

thats very interesting to see

 

I wonder if someone could just get away with changing the taxation class to Historic and leaving body type alone? (I know one person on the rum car forums said he "got away" with doing something like that)

 

might be for me at least a way to get round the Tricycle licence issues (I wonder what a reliant says under body type?) especially as I just noticed wheel plan is not recorded LOL (but im also curious just on a purely "academic" level as well, Ie I know they supposedly banned them as invalid carriages but I wonder if at this point they stopped giving a toss so to speak?)

 

I too would probably fill in all the blanks and probably stick "Model 70" under "Model" since it bugs me how they all say unknown on the MOT page 

 

im curious does the chassis number/Vin match up with whats on TPA? (im curious given the sorta London Transport type overhauls these things got)

 

EDIT: I know you said you should be good photograph wise on doing up the corner on TPA, but this high rez low down photo of ATW722L was posted recently on the rum car forums which gives a good view of the front corner section, I figured it would be rude not to share

 

 

(plus its an excuse to post more Model 70!  )

[Zelandeth]

Had a chat with our local post office regarding this as I needed to drop some parcels off anyway.

 

They've confirmed they can easily change the tax class from disabled to historic, and that the system will accept a V112 in lieu of an MOT for that, but as far as they're aware any changes to details beyond that are beyond their power. Need to have a dig around and maybe check exactly what Dollywobbler had to fill in to get that correctly changed for TWC.

 

There will be no "getting away with it" going on here. Given the sheer number of "they're illegal to drive now aren't they?" questions I've had to field, you can guarantee I'll get pulled over at least once by a traffic officer who's having a bad day. Let's not leave anything to chance.

 

Wheel plan should be "two axle rigid body" I believe as that's mainly there for commercial vehicles if I remember right.

 

The chassis number shown matches what I supplied on the V62 based on the data plate on the bulkhead. I admit I've not dug around to see if the actual stamped number on the frame matches...

[Fumbler]

 

 

20190104_075115.jpg

 

(plus its an excuse to post more Model 70!  )

That picture was taken in Tonbridge! That Volvo 850 is part of a family that has an equal aged V70 in the driveway which the Invacar is obscuring. I go past those cars every time I need to visit piano person. Smoll world.

[dollywobbler]

With mine, the Post Office changed the tax class to Historic on the day of the MOT - I went straight there. I'm now struggling to remember exactly what happened next, but I thought I'd changed body type and engine size at the same time, and the Post Office sent the V5 off for the change of class and the other stuff. Then I received TWO log books, one at 9999cc, one at 493cc. DVLA can be very iffy.

 

Speaking of which, a chap importing a Dacia 1310 recently received a 58-plate for it! Then, with no explanation, an age-correct logbook turned up the day after. 

[Zelandeth]

Just looking at the actual form it looks to be a clear case of "fill in the boxes" to me.

 

 

Wheel plan/body type should be changed to "motor-tricycle" the engine number (currently totally missing) be filled in, cc corrected and tax class changed to historic...

 

Do have to wonder if the teller actually looked at the form.

[dollywobbler]

Yup, it's just that the Post Office can't do any of that bit. I just changed mine to Tricycle.

[RayMK]

The DVLA vehicle enquiries webpage (for TWC) refers to the wheelplan as "Three wheel."  I checked my Reliant's V5c and the same term is used.  

 

Edit:  Actually, the way DVLA presents it is "3-WHEEL"

[Eddie Honda]

Just looking at the actual form it looks to be a clear case of "fill in the boxes" to me.

The old registration certificate information booklet (INS160) mentions Section 7. I won't direct quote it as a lot of it is out of date (it's from when they had local offices), so I'll paraphrase.

 

Blah, blah, blah, inform the DVLA of changes with a covering letter. Fill in the bits of Section 7 that apply. Also remember to sign and date declaration Section 8. For certain changes like a change of engine, they old give a toss if it affects DE MONIES, so whilst they say that they want paperwork for a smaller engine CC and don't for a larger, they'll probably want nothing for a downsize if it's still in the same class. Likewise going to disabled obviously requires paperwork, whilst coming off doesn't.

 

When it comes to potential inspections, I thought they farmed it out to SGS or some outfit like them to do it on their behalf and don't check every application, just a random selection.

 

Can't remember what I had on my tricycle V5C (somewhere not to hand at the moment), but I remember them being vague and that. They don't care as long as they get the right tax.

[Eddie Honda]

Edit:  Actually, the way DVLA presents it is "3-WHEEL"

They DVLA change their mind about things though and never particularly consistent. I had two Austin Maxis in the early 2000s. When I got the vehicles they were "5 DR SALOONS" and the party-poopers sent the new ones out with "5 DR HATCHBACK" on them! (an unrequested change)

 

Whilst the DVLA can do transfer in a matter of days. I can't say I've any confidence of doing anything more than one thing at a time. A bought a ERF 50cc moped once, but whilst they did the registered keeper change, they didn't do the incorrect manufacturer change, that took a second attempt. (It was an Italjet, btw)

[LightBulbFun]

very interesting, having never owned a car, this is all new stuff to me

 

 

The DVLA vehicle enquiries webpage (for TWC) refers to the wheelplan as "Three wheel."  I checked my Reliant's V5c and the same term is used.  

 

Edit:  Actually, the way DVLA presents it is "3-WHEEL"

 

im curious for Body type what does your Reliant say? (your the chap who owns the 1963 Reliant that was parked next to TWC at the field of dreams IIRC?)

 

because if im understanding everything properly the general rule for invalid carriages is to change them to Trike, but I always think of Trike as like what Bub owns (ie 3 wheeled open air thing with little or no body work)

 

and if im reading the DVLA site correctly you have to be 21 or older to drive such Motor tricycle on a Car licence....

 

(theres also the fact that a model 70 is not an open Air tricycle so it would bug the crap out of my "OCD" if its body type was put down as such LOL)

 

so im curious if 3 wheeled reliants are also just classed as tricycles even when clearly they are 3 wheeled cars, rather then some No body open air type contraption or if they have something else for body type?

 

 

Had a chat with our local post office regarding this as I needed to drop some parcels off anyway.

They've confirmed they can easily change the tax class from disabled to historic, and that the system will accept a V112 in lieu of an MOT for that, but as far as they're aware any changes to details beyond that are beyond their power. Need to have a dig around and maybe check exactly what Dollywobbler had to fill in to get that correctly changed for TWC.

There will be no "getting away with it" going on here. Given the sheer number of "they're illegal to drive now aren't they?" questions I've had to field, you can guarantee I'll get pulled over at least once by a traffic officer who's having a bad day. Let's not leave anything to chance.
 

 

Fair cop 

 

but while im on the subject of "getting away with it",

 

so it looks like you no longer need an MOT to change the tax class to historic and as such since it would it be MOT exempt you could literally just hit the road now if you wanted to?

 

that bodes well* for all the 40 year old shit heaps people are flogging on ebay as "MOT EXMPT!!!1!1!"

 

nothing like a rousing bit of brake failure to wake you up in the morning when said 40 year brake lines burst (because if you dont need an MOT to change to historic, then what stops anyone pulling out some shit heap thats been rotting for 30 years, getting it classed as Historic and just hitting the road?)

[Zelandeth]

I'm pretty sure at this point that the only brake lines left are the rear axle flexi hoses...and I'll be whipping them off relatively soon to get Pirtek to make me up a set of new ones with the originals as patterns.

 

Don't suppose you could either snap a photo of or a note of what's shown in the various relevant sections on TWC's V5 could you, DW?  Just knowing what the DVLA are like, if we've got an exact working that we've already got evidence of them accepting, I'll tend to stick with it!

 

As far as I can tell, no I don't actually need an MOT based on what was said today at the Post Office.  The computer flags up that there's no valid MOT on file when the option to tax it is brought up, but clearly states that this isn't required if an excemption certificate is seen.

 

To be honest, having read the form properly now I'm tempted to just go and try to get it done tomorrow.  It will still be getting an MOT at the earliest opportunity, but if I can legally do the first few tests around the sleepy housing estates here rather than a dash to the far side of town to the MOT station, that's definitely a bonus...Especially as the lack of a formal requirement for the test means I can probably get my usual garage to do it even though they're not officially able to do Class III tests.

 

Figure it's worth a shot, worst the DVLA will do I imagine is send the V5 back with a note saying "ya need an MOT mate..." as far as I can tell, so if I can get all the admin out of the way now, I'll do precisely that.

[LightBulbFun]

I'm pretty sure at this point that the only brake lines left are the rear axle flexi hoses...and I'll be whipping them off relatively soon to get Pirtek to make me up a set of new ones with the originals as patterns.

 

Don't suppose you could either snap a photo of or a note of what's shown in the various relevant sections on TWC's V5 could you, DW?  Just knowing what the DVLA are like, if we've got an exact working that we've already got evidence of them accepting, I'll tend to stick with it!

 

As far as I can tell, no I don't actually need an MOT based on what was said today at the Post Office.  The computer flags up that there's no valid MOT on file when the option to tax it is brought up, but clearly states that this isn't required if an excemption certificate is seen.

 

To be honest, having read the form properly now I'm tempted to just go and try to get it done tomorrow.  It will still be getting an MOT at the earliest opportunity, but if I can legally do the first few tests around the sleepy housing estates here rather than a dash to the far side of town to the MOT station, that's definitely a bonus...Especially as the lack of a formal requirement for the test means I can probably get my usual garage to do it even though they're not officially able to do Class III tests.

 

Figure it's worth a shot, worst the DVLA will do I imagine is send the V5 back with a note saying "ya need an MOT mate..." as far as I can tell, so if I can get all the admin out of the way now, I'll do precisely that.

 

my brake line comments was just referring to 40 year old "barn finds" in general not TPA specifically, but good to know the brakes are coming along nicely still

 

she is so close to returning to the road now, any plans to record her first trip out onto the public highway in 18 years? (even if it is just a sleepy housing estate)

[Eddie Honda]

My "OCD" is kicking in now...

 

is to change them to Trike

Tricycle

 

Car licence

The DVLA issue a Driving Licence with category entitlements. It doesn't matter if it is a moped, lorry, car, bus or tractor. It is all the one licence.

 

Body types don't really mean much with regards to licencing. Numbers of wheels, cc, power, power to weight, mass, and seats do (a few other things besides).

 

when clearly they are 3-wheeled cars, rather then some No body open air type contraption or if they have something else for body type?

They are not cars, they are tricycles. They might be car-type tricycles, but they aren't cars. It's partly a tax thing, which in turn is a mass/no. of wheels thing. Thow in a few more defined characteristics and in modern type approval terms UNECE / EU, it is a category L5e vehicle.

 

nothing like a rousing bit of brake failure to wake you up in the morning when said 40 year brake lines burst (because if you dont need an MOT to change to historic, then what stops anyone pulling out some shit heap thats been rotting for 30 years, getting it classed as Historic and just hitting the road?)

There are many, many more vehicles with valid MOTs that are unroadworthy. So much more that number of those Killed/Seriously Injured due to a vehicle defect for vehicles over 40 years-old amounts to a statistically insignificant number. [*if you do the sums you won't even run out of fingers to count]

 

Now as I've found the V5/V5C for my pair of 3-wheelers, here's what they show:

 

As you can see in particular with the older record. They don't give a toss about the details, just all info they need to take the VED.

[Eddie Honda]

rather than a dash to the far side of town to the MOT station,

You lucky, lucky, bastard. I had to drive 18 miles away on a windy day to get my Class III test done in January 1992.