The Answer to all "What luxobarge?" Questions.....

[xtriple]

If a Camry is a luxobarge, then by the same token, so is my Kia! It has a V6, leather, electric seats and so on... it's not though, but borderlne sporty fun.

 

Sometimes

[SiC]

Well going by the name, a luxobarge is ... A luxury barge!

 

In my eyes, a luxobarge needs to be big, comfy, cost as much as a small house new and cost the same as a new family car to fix (with new, genuine parts) if anything major goes. Finally, if you park it in a company car park, the average person looking at he cars can tell who the CEO/MD/Directors are.

[lexi]

Vel Satis?  Mine for 4yrs. Luxo room in back. Luxo seats....big drivers seat.  A Nissan 3.5 v6, not a luxo engine really.

  Not Luxo suspension.....crashy with low profile tyres. Still, a 32k car that cost me only £1600 5 yrs ago

 

 

[Junkman]

If you skip all that pretentius shit, apply common shite sense and don't give a fuck about anything but a luxobarge,

the answer is actually a 77-78 Chevy Caprice Classic. Make sure yours has the 350/350 and you're done.

[meshking]

I'm carefully watching Citroën c6 prices in the hope they'll drop to sensible levels. They're getting there.

[garethj]

Luxo barge is like this

 

 

I can't remember the last time I saw an XJ6 with a swimming pool.  Paddling pool in the footwells, yes.

 

 

Wood and leather?

 

I think it's because of the Pistonheads connotations that I posted this.  What they call a barge (and the cars that have been called them earlier in the thread) have mostly got quite sharp, predictable handling.  Just because it doesn't change direction like a kart doesn't instantly put it in the category of unwieldy.

[Jim Bell]

Has nobody said ls400 yet?

[Asimo]

Toyota Century.

 

Waft power.

 

Toys and upholstery.

 

Net curtains are for gentlemen. (tints are for thugs)

 

https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/toyota/century/19794608/

[gordonbennet]

Century is among the top line in luxo and beats everything else mentioned for rarity factor here, plus it's class inside what with lace curtains and standard complimentay Geisha serving the master tea or saki, outside it's barely changed in 25 years which shows true conservative values, if it aint broke don't mend it, class isn't bothered about fashion hence doesn't change to suit changing times, old money.

 

Luxos can only have a proper auto box capable of giving seamless changes, as a bare minimum 6 cylinders, and must be driven by the correct wheels leading to silent total comfort for the important persons in the passenger-rear seats (which means LWB only) whatever the speed, and it must be capable of blowing off any car of sporty pretensions sitting on elastic band tyres by simply planting the right foot and vanishing but with no increase of interior sound likely to diminish the serenity of the tea ceremony taking place in the master's quarters as the monster hurtles down the road at speed whilst giving the appearance and gentle ride of a barely moving car on a billiard smooth surface.

[garethj]

plus it's class inside what with lace curtains

 

Is it?  Because it's quite common in taxis and even buses in the far east.

[RoadworkUK]

Is it?  Because it's quite common in taxis and even buses in the far east.

 

Yes. It was originally seen mainly in full-on ministerial machines like Presidents and Centuries and has trickled down.

 

The Japanese also prefer high quality fabric in their high-end cars as it is quieter to sit on than leather.

[barefoot]

I like the anti macassa's, but I'm concerned by the red dymo tape on the right of the dashboard.

[BavarianRetro]

So, we left the "Strip both  and swap all the good bits from one to the other, then swap all the ordinary, povvo spec bits back into the one that originally had all the good bits" project a few weeks ago,  mid way through, with all the standard bits out of the silver car and refitted back into the Mora Metallic  car  and the Mora Metallic FrankenSieben off to its new owner.

 

It always tickles me to see E38s advertised as "fully loaded with electric leather memory seats, air con, cruise control, etc. too much to list." That's base taxi spec in a car that could be had with at least four different upgrades to the basic leather, electrically adjustable, memory front  seats; electrically adjustable heated rear seats; bullet proof glass; fridge in the back; picnic tables; TV; Satnav; and as many as TWO phones in the same car - one in the front and one in the back.

To be fair, Arctic Silver, and standard black leather was very much poverty spec - as far as any E38 can be described as "poverty" - back in 2000, but we'll change that.

 

We were left with a car with a completely stripped out interior - and I do mean "completely" - and an enormous pile of bits - and I do mean "enormous" - some of which were quite interesting wee extras.

 

There were a couple of  surface rust blemishes around the boot, so we started by getting them attended to.  We took the bumper off and sent the car off to the paintshop along with the bootlid lip spoiler we had removed from FrankenSieben.

While it was away, the plan was to refurb the interior and, incredibly,  I hadn't noticed that the grey sports 18 way adjustable contour seats were Individual and piped two tone grey. It was clear that they needed a bit of a refurb, so a couple of colour samples were despatched to Gliptone and some Liquid Leather and Scuffmaster were supplied to improve them.

 

 

We did the fronts in the two tone and I think they turned out really well.

 

 

 

While I was still considering whether or not I could be arsed doing the rears to match, I acquired a set of electrically adjustable, lumbar support, heated rear seats in Nappa grey.  But piped. So another 250 ml of the lighter grey leather colour was obtained from Gliptone and the rears were made to match the fronts in the Individual piped two tone grey.

The interior we were using - out of, but definitely not native to, FrankenSieben - had one out of four of the door pull handles in grey stitched leather from an Individual or 750iL extended leather interior.  

 

The same source as the rear seats managed to supply a pair of full  grey extended leather front door cards and the other rear handle in stitched leather. So all the door cards were stripped and the leather handles removed and  recoloured in the light grey to  complete the two tone Individual interior.

 

 

So, that's the interior leather trim pretty much sorted out and now the car is back from paint. It was wearing mismatched slave wheels, so they were ditched in favour of the staggered 18" M Parallels purloined from the Mora car.

 

 

There was an ABS fault which I tracked down to a faulty DSC precharge pump.  An in stock replacement was fitted and the brakes bled.

 

The later lights with clear indicators and the power fold mirrors had been swapped over prior to paint and, with the wheels on, it was externally complete, and so, unfortunately, there was nothing else for it, but to start reassembling it.

Start at the back and move forward is normally our approach, and originally, in terms of ICE  this basic car had only a basic radio and a fitted phone.  Nothing else.

 

The first thing to go in was the AV loom front to back for the widescreen Nav. It was run from the boot to the front and the monitor connected to let us check the functions as we built it. Then we started adding bits. A radio module, TV and video module, GPS antenna, DSP amp, and CD changer all came from FrankenSieben which also supplied an early Mk2 CD based Nav computer and "Trimble" unit required to make it work.  I managed to obtain the latest compatible Mk4 DVD navigation computer, a reversing camera that looks like a pdc sensor, and a break  out lead to allow AV input and output to and from the TV and video module.

 

Getting it all to work, upgrading the nav computer, finding bits not working, downgrading it to the  earliest workable version to get it all working and then upgrading it to the latest again is all a bit of time consuming hassle, but worth it.

Talking of PDC sensors, replacing one dead front one and one equally lifeless rear one got the PDC working again and annoying the Hell out of me.

 

The reversing camera was fitted to the rear bumper and wired via a relay (actually from an E30 convertible rear screen blower) so that when reverse gear is selected power is provided to the camera and a pin on the video module plug is earthed to display the output from the camera, no matter what the screen is currently displaying. This works well and is better than having to switch the display to the AV channel before engaging reverse.

 

 

With all those wires and boxes now in the boot, I decided that a CD changer was unlikely to be used, so it was jettisoned.  That left a spare power feed.  What to do with it?  A Zoom Mobile wi-fi router that had once provided the office wi-fi also came with a 12v power supply.  In it went and the car now has its very own wi-fi hotspot. The layout and wiring all took a bit of time, but it is now complete, uses all BMW parts (apart from the wi-fi) and could have been ordered from the factory.

 

So into the cabin and still moving from the back forward, the Mora car had an electric rear sunblind fitted, but not operational. We checked it actually worked and it was fitted and wired correctly to the switch in the front of the car.  Fortunately the correct switch bank was with the Mora car, but as not all the wiring required at the plug was there, we needed to butcher  plug out of a scrap E39 to add pins to  the existing plug and wire them up to get power to the rear blind.

 

The chap with the rear seats also supplied a non working blind which luckily had an older pre facelift type of switch, so we wired that into the rear of the centre console to allow the blind to be operated by rear seat passengers independently. So, that's the rear sun blind in and working with switches in both front and rear.  If you haven't seen one of these in action, it's definitely worth watching:-

 

http://bavarianretro.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/VID_20161226_133044.mp4

 

Next component forward is the DSP speaker box.  It's fairly straightforward and just bolts in and connects to the main AV loom. Nice and simple.  Result.

 

Now what about the GPS antenna? Where does it go? Oh, aye.  Under the rear parcel shelf.  Nae bother.  We'll just take the sun blind and the DSP back out to fit a stupid wee thing no bigger than a box of matches. And put them back in again.

 

Moving forward to the electrically adjustable rear seats.  I'll just say nearly two days of trial fit, adjust, weld, grind, trial fit, adjust, weld, grind,  trial fit ......repeat ad infinitum covers it fairly, though it ignores the time spent trimming the brackets apparently chopped out of the donor car with a blunt fireman's axe.

 

 

 

Then there was the wiring, which, to be fair was, pretty quick and simple.  Oh, and the brackets that have to be removed from the donor parcel shelf and fitted.

 

So that's the rear seats in.  The front seats have monitors in the back of the  headrests, but like just about every other good bit in the original FrankenSieben, they weren't connected. A USB bank, 12v charger and various cables and HDMI box thingy are now fitted in the centre rear armrest allowing pretty much anything to connect to the screens, which are now wired up,  and phone charging etc. to be performed.

 

 

So carpets in, interior built up, seats in, dash built up with widescreen monitor and Robert is your mother's brother. .  Again, that's oversimplifying getting the best bits of trim out of three cars - using Vinylkote 40 (matched by Technispray to a sample) to repair scuffed bits of grey trim and recolour undamaged beige to replace broken bits discovered on removal.  I think the grey interior into the Mora car was the first E38 interior whoever did it had done - lots of broken bits, Tiger seal and PanelBond.

 

 

The 16:9 widescreen monitor was in the Mora car and the chap told me it was an X5 unit. That's pretty standard. 16:9  RHD E38 units are very, very rare and while they will fit E38, E39 and E53, the reverse is not true and only E38 RHD units fit RHD E38s properly. X5 units are plentiful and work, but need the heater box modified to sit properly in the dash.  Ideally the viewing angle needs adjusted too.  I was preparing to make these modifications and we fitted the monitor in place.  It fitted perfectly. It must be an E38 unit. Result.

 

 

 

There are a couple of niggles.  Along the way, the boot remote release stopped working and I'm getting a "bootlid open" warning (both now fixed).  The coolant level sensor is playing up. There's a foglight out and I can't be arsed taking the undertray off to fit a new bulb and, and this always happens - because we have a couple of breakers, whenever you can't find a trim piece, nut, bolt, screw, clip, or whatever, it's easier and quicker to just go and take one off - we've a box of hundreds of wee bits left over.

 

I'm going to use and enjoy it for a couple of weeks and shake down any niggling faults, then it'll get brought back in to have the wee bits and pieces done, oh, and the tank replaced.  How could I forget?

It drives just beautifully and overall, I am happy that we have turned a lowish mileage one owner, but dully specced car into a cracking well specced old Luxobarge.

 

It's lived locally all its life, it has done a warranted 88000 miles and has a full service history. All three keys plus the plastic one are there. It's on M Parallels, with clear lights. It has power fold mirrors. It has working PDC and a reversing camera.  It has DSP; 16:9 screen; Mk4 DVD Sat Nav; electric rear sun blind; sports contour 18 way front seats and heated electrically adjustable rears all in Individual piped two tone grey; M-Tech multi function wheel; headrest monitors; entertainment in the centre armrest, and, wi-fi.

 

I'll consider offers around the £3000 mark, but only because I've seen a cracking facelift 750iL, I fancy!

[nacho man]

Love it!!

[Skizzer]

Golly! Serious gadget skills going on here, not to mention grade A leather fettling. That's a properly classy motor.

[garethj]

Mighty impressive!  Very well done.

[BavarianRetro]

 

When we bought this, the seller happily told us that it had a gearbox fault and would go into limp mode very quickly.  He wasn't kidding! Within about 100 yards, it would go into limp mode (fourth gear only). Though, if you cleared the fault code, the car would drive normally until the next time you switched the ignition off.

 

Reading the codes showed that it had had problems with the fluid temperature sensor and gear monitoring.

We did all the work detailed in the this blog entry and had to come to a decision about what to do with the gearbox fault.

BMW originally stated that these gearboxes (ZF5HP) were sealed for life and no fluid changes, checks, or top ups were required. They pretty quickly changed their tune and now suggest a fluid change and filter at 100000 miles.

Anecdotally, a transmission service can cure many "faults" and the never, ever wrong, ever, internet suggested that the fluid temp sensor fault "might" be cured by a fluid and filter change. The car has only done 88000 miles, but it is nearly 20 years old and a few litres of fluid and a filter won't go wrong.

 

The proper fully synthetic fluid is quite dear, though the filter isn't terrible. I reckoned about £100 at trade prices would get the fluid and filter. A DIY transmission service isn't terribly difficult, but you are really only draining the fluid in the sump and you leave a few litres in there, in the torque converter in particular.  To get it all out, you really need to use a specialised pump and even just filling it to the correct level is a bit of a pain for those without the special equipment.

I phoned the local ZF agents/service centre (Mackie Transmissions)  and they would supply us the correct fluid and filter from stock for just under £100. Or, they'd drain it, flush it, fit the filter and refill it for about £150. That's a fluid change rather than just drain and refill. Go on then.

 

They were very professional.  They asked if there were any faults and explained that there was no guarantee that any faults would be fixed and in fact, some faults were known to get worse after a service.

 

We dropped it off first thing - in fourth gear - and they phoned at about 4:00. It was done and had been serviced successfully, but, unfortunately, it was still going into limp mode within a very short distance. The codes thrown were gear monitoring and slippage in second gear and third gear.  Only a rebuild would fix it - at a cost of about £1800!

Well, it was worth a try.  I'll look out for a good secondhand gearbox, then.

 

We collected it and, sure enough, it went into limp mode after a few yards. I cleared the codes and drove it back.

I used it the next day, doing the same thing, clearing the codes and just driving it.  The next day, I thought it might have taken very slightly longer - maybe a few hundred yards -  to fail into limp mode and after a week, I was getting a few miles. After a fortnight, it went from East Kilbride out to Milngavie - 15 miles or so. Now, four or five weeks later - and I'm jinxing it now - it hasn't gone into limp mode in over a week.

 

I've used it in manual, auto and sports mode; driven it gently, driven it normally and red lined it more than once,  and the gearbox "appears" to be working perfectly.

 

Now, I am not unrealistic, the gearbox may chuck its toys out the pram at any point and I may just be having a run of good luck, but my advice if your ZF5HP (fitted to loads on mid to late 90s onwards stuff, not just BMWs) is dropping into limp mode, without any obvious noise, bangs, clunks or slippage, is that a fluid and filter change is definitely worth a try before condemning the gearbox to the scrap pile.

 

What odds on "BONG" "Trans Failsafe Prog" tomorrow?

.

[BavarianRetro]

Another proper luxobarge incoming - short of the very rare L7, this is about as luxo and about as barge as can be had in the UK.

 

It is a 2001 facelift 740il and it's intended for restoration.

 

 

Extended wheelbase

4.4 V8

Blinds

Soft close boot

Extended leather

Multifunction armrest

SLS

Footstools

Sunroof

Electric steering column

Nav

Folding mirrors

Chrome line

Extended Wood

Climate front screen

Xenons

Rear aircon

Etc. Etc.

 

 

Alpina wheels and lip are no longer - genuinely not to my taste and sufficiently valuable to allow the guy I got it from to get a drink out of the car. Win. Win. The bordmonitor is away too and I'd like to have kept that, but hey ho.

 

Talking of having a drink. Did I mention the vanity headrests and picnic tables? I expect all you Allegro and Pub landlord types to shut up about your lowly tray things now. *These* are tables.

 

 

Arriving next week. Apparently quite tatty, but sound. Will be stunning. Looking forward to it.

[BavarianRetro]

And in other E38 news:-

 

Well, FrankenSeiben is off to what appears to be an appreciative, permanent new home in the London area.

 

I'm pleased with how we managed to save a car with loads of potential and turned it into a decent car. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination original, with different paintwork, wheels, lights and interior from when it left the factory, but I think the black interior suits it very well and it looks and drives superbly.

 

Here it is on refurbished 19" M Parallel replicas which set off the Mora paintwork very well indeed

 

 

 

It is very interesting that the interior that is now in it came out of a car - the silver car - with a VIN number only 15 earlier than this one.

 

So, these two cars would probably have been together on the production line at Dingolfing, on the boat to Britain and in BMW GB compound in the UK before going their separate ways in late 1999, only to be reunited at our premises 17 years later.  If only Cilla Black was still alive.

 

In what may have been a bout of separation anxiety, FrankenSieben shed its serpentine belt midweek. The idler and tensioner were pretty worn and both date stamped "1999", so they were all replaced and the car prepared for its new owner's arrival on Friday.

 

On Friday, on the way to the station to collect the new owner in the silver sister car, the silver one shed its serpentine belt!

 

Who says cars don't have feelings?

 

Me.  All that can be deduced from this is that the expected lifespan of M52TUb28 belt idlers and tensioners is *exactly* 17 years and three months.

 

You have been warned.

 

The upgrading of its silver sister continues - this car is like the terraced council house with home cinema, sauna, jacuzzi, guest wing, wine cellar and motor house.

 

Recent additions are the E60 M5 instrument cluster (actually an E53 4.8 iS cluster)

 

 

and the famed, "porn lights" - the same as the ones pictured below.

 

 

We also finally managed to remove the supposedly good tank from one of the 735i breakers and, unusually, found a secondhand E38 fuel tank in better condition than expected. It has done a total of about five miles since being fitted and is a genuine BMW tank.

 

 

It'll get fitted to the silver council house along with recently acquired rear air conditioning, an hydraulic soft close boot and a practice putting green.

[SiC]

Are the tanks still available new from BMW? Always fancied one of these James Bond cars.

[BavarianRetro]

They are. £900.

 

Pattern ones are available for about £400.

[xkjagnz]

My Luxobarges (ignore the pisshat)

[Lacquer Peel]

W8?

[xkjagnz]

Yes W8, plus S320 and TE300, but most expensive of the lot is the little red one at the back of the garage picture!

[eddyramrod]

Surely Mr Panhard has "The Answer?"  He's the one who keeps buying Silver Shadows!

[xtriple]

Surely Mr Panhard has "The Answer?"  He's the one who keeps buying Silver Shadows!

 

Ahem!

[BavarianRetro]

Current E38 count = 4.

 

Council House 728i.

 

 

This is being used as a daily driver and has behaved pretty well.

 

It decided that its new serpentine belt, idler and tensioner were too good to be driving any 17 year old alternator, so tried - fruitlessly - to force me into buying a new one by removing the charging capability of the existing one.

 

I wasn't going to fall for that, so fitted a good used one we had lying about. That'll teach it. I'll not be forced into buying new parts by any old car.

 

Then, after two weeks, that alternator died too. New alternator acquired and the replacement sent for reconditioning too.

 

Capitulation.

 

It always needed a new screen. We took a half decent one out of a breaker. The glazing guy said he could get me a new top tint heated front screen for relative cheapness and somebody wanted a screen, so I ordered it. I sold the screen we removed from the breaker.

 

He arrived on a pretty decent, dry day a few days later to fit it and we removed the screen from the car, sacrificing the top trim as usual.

 

All cleaned up, and primer painted on. Trying to fit the top trim, it wouldn't go on. Because it was the wrong windscreen. And it's raining.

 

Fortunately an identical facelift 728i breaker provided a very good screen in no time and disaster was averted and, indeed, £100+ saved.

 

More parts have been collected for imminent fitting. The current council house box of parts contains:-

Fuel tank;

Rear air con;

Soft close boot kit;

Privacy rear glass and screen;

Shadow line bumper trims, scraper seal holders, rubbing strips and gutters.

New O2 sensors (with connecting cables too short)

Used O2 sensors with correct length cables.

Cool rear view mirror.

 

 

2001 728i Sport - breaker.

 

 

Has provided sports seats and loads of wee bits to make the FrankenSeiben sale much easier.

 

As it is pretty much identical to the council house, it's going to be kept for as long as we keep that. It has already supplied some bits for the box. And the items sold from it have more than recovered its cost, so it is currently a welcome guest.

 

1997 735i - breaker

Still here. Has become potentially a little more useful due to the recent arrival of:-

 

2001 740il

 

 

 

 

 

This was bought because of its humongous spec and incredible value.

Last few months of production

Long wheel base version

4.4 V8

Comfort seats

Climate front screen

Electric memory steering column

Folding heated mirrors

Wide-screen 16:9 Nav

DSP sound

Rear privacy blinds

Rear air con

Picnic tables

Vanity mirrors

Clipboard

Electric rear seats

Multi function rear armrest

Footrests

Double glazing

Soft close boot

PDC

Sunroof

SLS

And probably loads of other stuff I've forgotten about.

 

 

It was bought on the basis that hopefully it'll produce a cracking big luxobarge, but if not, it'll break very well.

 

It arrived this week and a quick poke around showed that it is pretty rust free. The bonnet and slam panel are wrong, but the silver breaker can provide these. The rear bumper isn't great, but the silver one will do the job.

 

The soft close wasn't working, but an hour or so and the adjustment of a micro switch fixed that.

 

The sunroof wasn't opening or closing properly and appeared to be in "jam prevention" mode. Clearing a potential jam and coding the obviously second hand module from an E46 coupe with a glass sunroof to the correct specs, got the sunroof working.

 

These two free, but significant fixes sealed the car's fate. Pretty much everything else works as it should. It drives well. It's going to be restored.

 

A set of M Parallels provided by the silver breaker is earmarked for it and currently resides c/o the metal polisher in nearby Cleland.

It'll get its bonnet, bumpers, etc. attended to. It needs a window regulator and a quarter glass where the double glazing seal has been breached (with the car) and then we'll dismantle it for paint and strip the interior out.

 

It'll go for paint and while it's away we'll reconnolise the interior, and collect the parts needed to finish off the interior - namely rear air con bits and some extended leather if we can find it.

 

A reversing camera and a nav upgrade to Mk4 is probably all it needs to finish it off.

 

Quite a bit of work, but it'll be worth it and will create an amazing big car.

 

More to follow.

[Noel Tidybeard]

mr wollydobbler may be close with the OMEGAwd

[BavarianRetro]

So, a week on and the sunroof has been fixed; a window regulator has been replaced; a (double glazed) quarter glass fitted; the soft close boot fixed; the pre facelift bonnet jettisoned; the slam panel that had been butchered to fit the pre facelift bonnet swapped for the correct one; the bonnet cables and catches replaced/adjusted/lubricated; a broken air intake replaced; one PDC sensor housing replaced; front bumper replaced: headlight washers repaired and swapped into the other bumper; cluster whipped out and pixels repaired; rear bumper replaced, and, all the external trim removed and the car is now ready for paint.

 

 

 

There's a couple of wee trim bits we need to acquire before it goes for paint and I think we'll take the interior out before it goes a in order to administer a good old gliptoning while it's away.

[320touring]

Good progress there Boyd!

 

The e38 is still to share its charms with me, but I can see where the appeal comes from