SiC's Silver Saab 9-5 2.3t Vector - Gone!

[SiC]

Well for £55 of oil and a couple of afternoons, it was worth a shot!

 

Really tempted to give the valve body a pull and see if I can clean it.

 

However looking at this, it looks like it getting dirty isn't the main problem, but more leaks from the valves:

http://www.sonnax.com/articles/209-aw-55-50-af23-33-diagnosis-and-valve-body-information

 

They're also pretty complex things...

 

Rather tempted to try some cheap snake oil too.

[DodgeRover]

Wonder if it's worth giving someone like JPAT a call to see if there is an common/ easy fix. I bet the fluid had never been changed in it's life, people neglect auto boxes till problems start

[SiC]

Interesting post here: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?21422-Can-I-use-Lucas-Transmission-Fix-in-AUTO-02-XC70&p=150175#post150175

 

Back to your problem: you have valve body problems. The SLT solenoid regulates the operating hydraulic pressure in the transmission. That pressure moves the actuators to engage the gears. When the fluid is cold, it's more viscous, so the SLT solenoid can develop the required line pressure. When the fluid is hot, it's thinner, and the SLT can't keep the pressure up. So, when you coast, below 25 MPH and the trans shifts to neutral, then you step on the gas, it is slow to engage back into gear and you get the engine rev and slam/bang. It happens sometimes under hard acceleration because the engagement is slow and you're putting a lot of torque through the trans.

 

I will bet that when the car is hot, it often takes a second or two to go from Reverse to Drive as well...

This correlates with the other link above. Looks like it looses line pressure (i.e. hydraulic pressure - remember an autobox is a completely hydraulic machine) when warm, due to the oil thinning and the pressure control valves leaking from wear.

 

So pretty likely that a valve body replacement will fix it. Just I need to find a source of a cheap valve body!

[Kiltox]

I have a Zafira scrapper coming in shortly..... wonder if the engine from this would go in it

[SiC]

I know the B204/B205 (2l Saab engine) are popularly put in Astra G's. Not sure if the bigger B235 (this one), would fit though!

[xtriple]

I had similar problems with an old 126 V8 years ago. A auto trans specialist just wound up the internal pressure for me and it kept it running for about a year before it blew the front seal out and dumped all its oil everywhere!

 

I wanted a cheap, quick fix, it was both.

[SiC]

Pressures in these are electronically controlled. So if it isn't getting enough pressure, it'll demand some more. Not sure how I could increase the pressure in it, apart from maybe if I hacked around with some of the sensor electrical sensors to make it think it was under pressure?

 

Very tempted at the moment to drop some of this snake oil in...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-Oil-Transmission-Fix-Stop-Slip-710ml-/272366050353?

 

Apparently it thickens up the ATF. If so, then it could potentially help. I guess not a lot to loose at this stage? (Apart from £14)

[DodgeRover]

Maybe more new non lumpy ATF would be thicker anyway?

These don't need a super duper special grade of oil available only from the manufacturer do they to avoid expensive things going more wrong? I would hazard a guess that even if they did 100 miles done with the wrong oil then dumping and refilling would do more good than harm?

[beko1987]

Pressures in these are electronically controlled. So if it isn't getting enough pressure, it'll demand some more. Not sure how I could increase the pressure in it, apart from maybe if I hacked around with some of the sensor electrical sensors to make it think it was under pressure?

 

Very tempted at the moment to drop some of this snake oil in...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-Oil-Transmission-Fix-Stop-Slip-710ml-/272366050353?

 

Apparently it thickens up the ATF. If so, then it could potentially help. I guess not a lot to loose at this stage? (Apart from £14)

You could test the snake oil theory! You can't make it much worse, especially if you have cartakeback saved on your phone already!

[SiC]

Right. After pondering at work today, I've come up with a plan. The primary limiting fiddle time is 3 fold. First it's MOT expires in 12 days time, Secondly the cooling off period on the insurance has another 11 days left. Thirdly, I agreed with the wife that if I could spend last weekend devoted to fiddling with it, I'd go to some stupid thing with her this weekend. With the short nights, this means only a slim window I have daylight during the week to try stuff.

 

Essentially the problem is that when its hot (>90C ATF temp), it starts having its problems. Now if I was doing faster driving, I could put a cheap second hand ATF cooler inline. This would keep the temps down. Unfortunately as I intended this to be doing stop+start traffic, it would only delay the hotter temps due to lack of airflow. Also I'd need to bodge it in some where but there is a lack of room to do so.

 

Hence my solution is going to be try some snake oil as the last roll of the dice. Based on the good reviews I've seen online on YouTube, it seems that Lucas Transmission Stop-Slip fix. For 14quid, not a lot to loose if the next step is the bridge!

[SiC]

Maybe more new non lumpy ATF would be thicker anyway?

These don't need a super duper special grade of oil available only from the manufacturer do they to avoid expensive things going more wrong? I would hazard a guess that even if they did 100 miles done with the wrong oil then dumping and refilling would do more good than harm?

I flushed and replaced it with the right spec oil (JWS3309). It was cheap oil compared to Mobil (£50 for 20l vs £120 for Mobil 20l), but I'm using the exact same stuff in my Laguna that has an identical gearbox. I changed that 3k miles ago and it's still shifting sweetly, so it must be alright stuff.

 

The oil is lovely cherry red now after properly flushing it out through the oil cooler line at the weekend.

[Parky]

+1 for snake oil.

 

Unless Quentin Wilson is involved......

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I need to do a fluid change in my Gooner too. did you just do several fluid changes or did you disconnect the oil cooler pipe and let it pump itself through?

[SiC]

I need to do a fluid change in my Gooner too. did you just do several fluid changes or did you disconnect the oil cooler pipe and let it pump itself through?

On the Gooner I did several oil changes. Saab I went with the oil cooler pipes.

 

Cooler pipes is quicker to flush through as you're literally pumping the old fluid out, with fresh replacing it. Put an extra litre back in (extra from what you took out), then take 2 litres out, 2 litres back in, 2 litres out, 1 litre back in. In park, it was happily pumping it out and a controllable rate. About 30-60 seconds to pump out 2l. The fluid at the end of it was nice and clear.

 

Dump and fill changes is less risk as you're less likely to loose all the friction material if some have been lost. But takes more oil.

 

Which ever way you go, may sure you put the same amount back in at the end. If you don't, you need a diagnostic tool (DS150e can't do it, Renault CAN Clip only) to read the transmission oil temp, as the only accurate way to check the level is when the oil is at 80C.

 

You can drain out the dipstick tube by removing it. Filling it requires a funnel to fill it through the dipstick tube - don't remove random plugs on the box! If you get the wrong bolt, you will loosen a clutch band and kill it! I used a Draper fill funnel with a pipe.

[BorniteIdentity]

Just checking in to make sure you've scrapped it.

 

I are disappoint.

[SiC]

This is the funnel that I used. Draper part number 26327. The pipe at the bottom fits perfectly in the dipstick pipe.

 

Cleanliness is critical. There is no proper filter unlike other boxes. Get grit, dirt, fluff in and you'll risk getting the solenoids jammed.

[SiC]

Just checking in to make sure you've scrapped it.

 

I are disappoint.

Said the man who spent big repairing his 190E

[beko1987]

At last, a proper snake oil test!

 

Its do or die time. If it doesn't work though, please tell me your gonna drive it until the gearbox properly explodes then scrap it? Just to see what happens like

[BorniteIdentity]

Said the man who spent big repairing his 190E

It's funny because it's true.

[Captain Furious]

Damn, got to be honest I was sceptical after seeing the state of the fluid that came out of it but I admire your optimism to carry on, shame it hasn't paid off

 

Interested to know if the snake oil works because I have a Granada with what I think is a soon-to-be-borked gearbox. No slippage yet but it does thump into gear quite harshly and is leaking ATF somewhere.

[DodgeRover]

Trying to be positive and possibly clutching at straws but now the fluid is nice and clean it might just heal itself by shifting some muck that the old stuff didn't. Have heard good things about that particular snake oil too, on older boxes the transmission place I used to go to had a range of different ones to cure different problems - they worked too!

[SiC]

So went out for another good old blast tonight. Figured a couple of things

• When the fluid is cool, the box is just fine. Cool as in <90C.
• Driving at motorway speeds, there is plenty of airflow, so its not getting too hot.
• Thermostat also seems to be dicky, as when I was cruising at 70mph, the gauge dropped down a bit. This explains why the chap never had any troubles. After he sped up from a slow down, the box would be cooled down from the thermostat not closing properly.{/*]
• Sitting around makes it get the hottest. So stopping the engine, letting it sit for a minute and then starting back up, it clonks badly. However once you've gone through the gears a couple of times and let the hot fluid circulate, it then settles back down.{/*]
• The new fluid I think is getting the heat out of the box much quicker now, so isn't anywhere near as bad as it used to be.
• Its cooler out tonight (9C), so the box will be cooling off much quicker.
• Another idea I have is to change the thermostat for a cooler version. That way, the box should stay cooler.
• The banging is bad, but once you get used to it, its easy to ignore. However I'm the type that doesn't like driving borked cars, so could never live with it. If Bristol wasn't so rammed up with traffic and I did mostly A/B-road speeds, it'd be just fine and I wouldn't have the problem occurring in normal use.

[SiC]

Mines fucked, but at least its not this fucked!

 

Looking around, it looks like that stop-slip is very thick stuff. Might just be the ticket.

 

My only concern is that this box is very picky on fluid type, slip additives and viscosity. So while stop-slip may work on older boxes, it really may not be compatible with this!

[fatharris]

I tried this ^ in my V70 with a slipping 1st gear and it didn't work sadly, but YMMV.

 

Godspeed.

[SiC]

What age V70? Possibly the same box. Having a look around, it appears that Lucas stop-slip works great in older boxes, but put it in a AW55, the reports I've read seem that it pretty much kills the box

[SiC]

Can't sleep? Watch this interesting video of a guy stripping down a AW55 box.

[Laseraligningfoofooflanges]

Gutted for you lad.

 

Sometimes its just not meant to be with cars.. Still gutting none the less!

[SiC]

So guys, which Snake Oil should I use to poison & kill my transmission?

I've whittled it down to 3 choices, with their various claims:

• Lucas Stop Slip Transmission Fix

  This appears to work by thickening up the fluid. This may help as if the valve body is leaking as the fluid thins when hotter, being thicker will stop it leaking as much. However two issues, one it may make it too thick and the valves won't get fluid. Secondly this transmission is actually designed to slip in normal operation to decrease fuel consumption. Hence it may mess with this.

• Lubegard Red

  This appears to remove varnish from sticking valves. Now this may fix solenoids that are sticky rather than leaking. As its not thickening the fluid less risk from completely borking the transmission. At the moment if you are stationary and manually shifting through the gears on the drive, it will occasionally bang from 3rd to 2nd, but not always. This could be sticking valves or that the cooler fluid has circulated through the system.

• Seafoam Trans Tune

  Similar to Lubegard in its claims in removing varnish.

Vote now!

[Kiltox]

All 3

[406V6]

Vote now!

 

Wouldn't the shite way be to try them all ?